549 replies to this topic

[ThiefofAlways]

Steve Pryde, best I can see nothing changed from the last time to now other than they give us more back on what we already earned. I never really cared about what they gave back it was what they are taking from me that bothers me.

Take the SVN-3, 4 ER-PPC had 30% velocity quirk. Now on the PTS no velocity quirk and I can maybe pick back up 10% of it if I am lucky with the other things I bought for it. This is just getting started same with the SVN-1. The weapons tree needs to be broken up by class and bonus increased.

Fear the Meta for it will be worse if they don't stop this.

Edited by ThiefofAlways, 26 April 2017 - 10:00 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Shevek Anarres, on 26 April 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

SNIPPED SPAM

Spamming the forums is just going to get you a nice suspension you know. IF YOU personally want money back, you PERSONALLY need to email billing.

Steve Pryde, on 26 April 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

Sorry but the skill tree is just a mess. I looked into it for 10 minutes and gave up. What did change after the last pts? When I think I have to skill trough hundrets of mechs then i don't want really log into the game. Trying to build my mech in the mechlab is ok and fun and a part of Mechwarrior but not this mess.

Well I now have to take more hill climb and less shock absorption on the operations tree to get to the things I want... which I don't actually like. I wanted the shock absorption... i run a lot of jump mechs and also like to flank over mountains.

[Arkhangel]

Think what some people don't understand when they say "you're alienating your entire player base" is.... honestly... at best, they might be alienating half of the forumwarriors... who in total are 5% of the player base if we're lucky. I'll adapt, just like every other MMO i've played, and I've backed the game since closed beta. Stuff's been stagnant for a long time.

You may not like it, but this'll change things up. also... just because i noticed this... for the guy who whined about Heavies with IS XLs no longer being able to torso twist as well, you should probably remember the Durability tree actually can make a mech far harder to kill than it is currently, provided you don't let someone flank you. And... You're not losing movement speed, it just means you might have to think tactically and make use of cover. the horrors.

[Reno Blade]

Cost and Refund seems good for all cases.
- all CBills for modules since december - Check
- GSP for modules before december - Check
- 91 GSP for mastered mechs - Check
- double GSP for double variants - Bonus check
- HXP and GXP - Check

Even if my 200 mechs are mostly mastered, having more than 91 GSP per mech allows me to unlock about 50% additional skills to try out different builds.
-> So no need to "spend" XP on "respec", as I can just "unlock" with the free GSP. - Check

As the max values are around 10-15% for most stats, not re-skilling everytime I want to try a different weapon is no big loss before you really know if the build fits you. - Check

I can freely decide if I want to use HXP/GXP or GSP on my less used mechs (rule-of-3 additional variants) or if these will stay unskilled until i'm interested in them (to save costs). - Check

Spending time to click/skill -> I spend a lot time in Mechlab of multiple of my 200 mechs, even if I'm usually very fast (if I know what I want it's a matter of seconds to switch builds), so spending time on skilly won't be much of a difference. - Check

And as I won't skill more than 30% of my mechs in the next 3+ months, the time invested is not an issue at all, especially if the "try and error" with 4-5 mechs provides enough experience to decide what will be my prefered skills.

-----------------------------------

Now for the layout and value of the skill tree(the important part)...
While it may suck to "waste" points, the overall investment-to-benfit ratio seems low overall (e.g. 20 points for 10-15% buff) so the "waste" doesnt make much of a difference overall.

I'm used to many different game skill trees and there is not a single skill tree where I DON'T have to waste skill points to advance.

I would prefere a tier based - radial system, but in the end it's just different UI with the same results in 90% of the ways you can implement it and the current Skill Tree is good enough to be an improvement over the old "progression" system.

[MechaBattler]

Have we gotten any confirmation if selling our modules before the patch will still get us the GSP?

[GabrielSun]

This thread in one picture:

[Gylfie]

SUPER!!!
thanks PGI

[Sonny Black]

[TorinZ]

Thoughts after hitting PTS last night.
GSP - I think that was a good idea, but I think providing the player a choice to refund a GSP point for the equivalent CBill cost, maybe with GXP too for the XP side, might be a good idea. I believe I calculated that I could fully master 99 new mechs with my GSP refund. I really hope I do not buy 99 more mechs, just for my own sanity. If we had that GSP refund option, I personally would probably sell off half of mine. (knowing there is a good chance I will still buy too many more mechs)

Skill nodes - I get the thought on spreading out things some to make min/maxers pay more to maximize and I didn't really mind most of the trees. My only bit I didn't like so much was having to go through cool downs to get to heat gens. Ok,I added a +1% HeatGen node, but will fire +.9% faster. Did I really make anything better? IDK, maybe depending on the build. Also don't remember seeing too many cool downs on the 'ballistic' side. Maybe that is on purpose.

Overall though not bad.

[irony1999]

I appreciate the fully thought-out refund system... that's great now.

But this tree. This tree... its just TOO Much. I'd rather have less choices that made more meaningful impacts. Like... back in the original vision document from 5 years ago:
http://mwomercs.com/...le-warfare-cont

Honestly - I like the pick 1-3 mech boosting modules system. It works fine. You can just tinker with that, and keep the existing module system... then just pare back the tree into a more role based/quirk based system. Maybe even differentiate it based off weight class (or chassis eventually).

This behemoth of a tree though just makes me despair when I first click in . If this MUST be kept... at least make some basic path templates we can pick from. Aka - want a fast scout mech, click on me and i'll auto select appropriate skills here. Want a brawler? Click on me and I'll give you more survivability and short range weapon skills here.

[Sanktre]

Dear PGI

I feel i can adapt to this new system (as Clanner) but i think IS should loose much less of its offensive quirks in my opinion as the weapon tree is too large and much less awarding to waste any point to make up for those losses. Although i still don't know how much the new technology would impact but still i don't think it would compensate it. If i may suggest atleast make the IS weapon tree more rewarding.

Also i support the idea of Irony1999 to make some templates as this is a bit overwhelming at first sight especially for newbies

[Cpt Zaepp]

I tried it. Sadly I fell asleep after skilling three 'mechs.

The economy is pretty good I think. But ...

SP
GSP
HSP
XP
GXP
HSP

Seriously? But TBH I don't even care. You can keep the modules or whatever and feed it to the cheapskates.

The tree itself is still underwhelming. It is still too large, clunky, overwhelming (especially for beginners), uninspired and the removal of quirks will hurt a lot underperforming IS and also clan chassis quite a bit.

Distributing skill-points will be more or less the same for a lot of my chassis. Mobility, Operations, Sensors (those are pretty much must-haves for solo-QP) and the rest goes, with slight variations, into weapons. There is not much variation and there is not much choice neither. Just boredom whilst distributing skill points.

There are a lot good ideas floating around in these forums. I would suggest you people finally take a look!

Edited by Cpt Zaepp, 28 April 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[BarmazelselRS]

A convincing request for developers: Vote -
Skill Tree
1. I'm happy with everything (as you will do and we will play)
2. Do not change anything. (Leave the old development system)
3. Make a more advanced, flexible and complex skill tree (500 nodes - 100 skill points). Where everything will be separated.
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------
3 options to answer you can choose only one.

Fans and players of your server will be grateful to you once again, for going to the players' meeting and listening to their opinion.

----------------------------------------
Developers, fish, piranhas and all those who are engaged in the development of MWO: Do not go on the path of development of freeride consumer goods. Otherwise, in half a year you will not have full-time servers and your servers will be empty, and your game will be remembered as a terrible dream.

[Insomnium80]

MechaBattler, on 26 April 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

Have we gotten any confirmation if selling our modules before the patch will still get us the GSP?

Yes.

[stealthraccoon]

I haz a confused.

I'm sure this all means balance and so on, but I feel like I'll be spending an awful lot of time tinkering with minute percentages without knowing it the selection is worthwhile for me.

If ignore 90% of my this can I just continue to potatoes my way through battle? Eh, at least it appears I'll be getting some fat refunds to burn on new technology.

[50 50]

Commander James Raynor, on 26 April 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

Although it is true that the KDK-3 will be better than it's now, the engine decoupling (I'm sorry to go on about it, but it's my main concern about these changes) is gonna make it A LOT slower than it is now. I'ts not gonna be able to accelerate or brake as fast as now, and the torso twisting is gonna be like a DWF. In fact it's gonna be as dangerous as a DWF, since both are gonna have the same agility and similarly good hardpoints. The only difference between them is going to be max speed and the fact that the DWF can mount more weapons (because of the hardpoints). In the end, the KDK-3 is going to be harder to kill, almost as much as an Atlas (though not as hard), and it's going to be just as clumsy. As we all know from facing mechs like the KGC, a big, clumsy mech is dangerous to be in front of, but really easy to kill, so I wouldn't worry as much.

The engine decoupling the agility bonuses will certainly make a difference. The KDK will feel like a 100 ton mech.
But it will only be impacted by this if a player has to make the choice of skipping on picking up those mobility enhancements.
If you want to keep the mobility, then you have to sacrifice something else.
But with 91 points it is more like, ok, buy the mobility back AND keep on getting other stuff to just make it better and better.

Drop out point allocation maximum to 50 and you really have to decide:
Do I want to get that mobility back?
Do I want to give it the full UAC and ballistic bonuses (about 27 points).
What about making it tougher with increased armour etc?
Hang on, what about sensors and getting radar deprivation, seismic etc (About 19 to 22pts from memory)?

But keep it at 91 points and you can pretty much get all of that anyway.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

I have two questions to PGI.

Why should I pay 400XP for every node I respec too. This is just an XP sink hole and a punishment.

How long do they think it should take to skill 91 points for a mech. I did this last night and it took me over 30 minutes to do this for one mech alone. I wanted to be very careful in what I chose as any mistake was going to be punished if I clicked the save button and then had to change it.

Over all thoughts: too complicated, too long to setup a mech and do what you want me to do "play the game". The player is punished when respecing a mech to a different skill build. If you got rid of the 400XP respec part it would at least be a start.

[50 50]

Ghardyne Dynamics, on 26 April 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

I checked and I do not have any SP. Maybe it´s bugged.

If you go to the top right to get SP, it should open another window allowing you to select how you want to get those SP.
One of the options is to use HSP (Historic skill points) which is the direct translation from the old system.
If the mech was mastered, you should have 91 points there.
Slide the bar all the way to the right to convert those 91 HSP to current SP.

The same screen is where you will need to allocate GSP (General skill points) should you want to respec and unlock additional nodes on the mech.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Krucilatoz, on 25 April 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

My Suggestion :

JUST PUT IT ON LIVE SERVER IMMEDIATELY.

I know you try to listen your customer, but really, are they worth to listen? Yes, I read those suggestions, even on reddit. But they just represent a small number of player (yet speak VERY loud).
Look all those suggestion/complaints above, "too many clicks" eh? "lack of this.. that" What makes their opinion worth to listen? Are they playing 24/7 ? Were they reading all weapons /mech log on server? Knows which mech perform the best based on data? Are they those youtuber/twitch that has thousand of viewers?
I'm sure those picky complainers didnt play this game much. I even check several of them on leaderboards, they play less than 50 match per-season.

Please be reasonable, the more you listen, the more this game development stalled. I dont want you (PGI) write an apology announcement of Civil War update postponed just because the developer busy on skill tree feature.
Just move ahead.
No one, ever, able to please everybody on this planet

They haven't put it live because they are trying to let us down easy. its works but takes too long, is too complicated (especially for any new players they are trying to attract) and makes you pay even more if you want to change any skills. 400XP to re-select a node you have already opened and paid for = Bu**S***

if 5 % of the population try the test system and we are seeing this much complaining in the forums just wait and see what happens when it smacks 100% of the population.

[Adran]

Odanan, on 26 April 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

My 2 cents:

• Keep all quirks (well, maybe except the mobility quirks); Why? - because the new skill tree buffs all mechs equally.
  
• Reduce the number of nodes (and node points) at least by half - you can proportionally increase the cost; Why? - because the bloated skill tree is too intimidating, too boring. Keep it more objective. Make the choices more meaningful.
  
• Eliminate the jump skill tree (add it as a very small branch of the mobility tree); Why? - because it doesn't worth the points invested.
  
• Reorganize some trees. Arm movement nodes (those are really necessary?) and other niche nodes should be moved to the border of the tree, out of the way to the universal stuff; Why? - people don't like buying useless nodes only to get the good ones.
  
• Refunds should be done in the currency you spent (except for bonus modules from packs or events: those would become C-Bills); Why? - that's the nature of refunding.
  
• And... wait for it... Eliminate all extra currencies. With all old XP of the variant refunded, you just need to click and buy the nodes you want, to the limit of X nodes per individual mech. No currency exchange. No pointless, convoluted systems. Why? - because this game doesn't need to get more complex (in a bad way).

Uh... As a Jump Jet user, I disagree strongly with your statement on Jump Jets. Plus, if it was added to Mobility, it would just make that tree more bloated than it already is.