549 replies to this topic

[mad kat]

So i don't lose any progress on my existing mechs or have to pay any c-bills to get them to where they already are and these converted skill points do it all for me.......

........FINALLY!!! something logical to come out of this. I'm perfectly happy with not a getting a c-bill refund on modules as long as i don't have to reinvest xp and c-bills into what i've already done.

[BLOOD WOLF]

AngrySpartan, on 27 April 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

many players want or tolerate.

Stop speaking for everyone. Why do people try to do this all the time on these forums?

[Outcast1six]

AngrySpartan, on 27 April 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

Allwright, so what exactly your point?

Yes it was stated in the first post, but that doesn't change the fact that new STree is not what many players want or tolerate. It doesn't change the fact that refunds are still imperfect, though they are much better than before. And finally, it doesn't change the fact that, despite all the feedback from the last PTS, PGI did nothing to fix core design of the skill tree.

Points. OK

1) People complaining about items addressed in the first post are a waste of time.
2) Most of the issues are either dealt with in a equitable fashion or PGI explained their reasoning behind doing them.

In my opinion, and I am by no means saying it's perfect, PGI has generously refunded players investment in the game, added WAY more customization while trying to keep it balanced and made it so we could have variety across the different chassis.

Oh, you mentioned "want or tolerate", not sure what you mean by that. Players "wanted" to get away from the system of 3, steep XP and C-bill costs of modules, MIN/MAX and Meta builds. "Tolerate" is an interesting word choice, it's a game, if you're "tolerating" it, maybe it's not the game for you.

Again, a little background. My stable consists of 290 mechs, many of which are mastered, I have 2 fully mastered, tweaked and moduled drop decks for CW and 2 different scout decks kitted as well. I have almost a billion c-bills in modules. The skill tree is going to be a major pain in the *** for me when it hits.

Would I rather have c-bills than skill points for my modules, yeah I would. But I'll put those general skill points to good use when I get them anyway.

TL:DR, read the first post before you *****, same with the patch notes. It's what they are there for.

[Iron Buccaneer]

So White Knights. What exactly is this new skill system bringing to the table that is so much better than the skill/module system that is currently in place? I have a founders account, Iron Pyrate, that I don't play that often. Lately I haven't been playing this account that often but I consider this my main account so I post with it. My point is that I have been playing this game since beta. I have 200+ mechs on various account. 91 on this account. The amount of time it will take me to re-spec my mechs to end up with mechs that will not preform as well as they did, because of poor trade offs, makes me wonder why I should bother continuing playing. Most of my mechs are IS mechs which will be loosing quirks under the new system. I will however has the option to buff my clan mechs which were already better, and let's not lie here, than my IS mechs in the same weight class.

I suppose I will just start playing all clan mechs like most everyone is already doing.... Less Battletech..... And for what?

[BLOOD WOLF]

Iron Buccaneer, on 27 April 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:

So White Knights.

When you start off with an ad-hominem, you already lost.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 27 April 2017 - 10:44 AM.

[dominikabra]

Peiper, on 26 April 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

PGI, this post is spectacular in appearance and depth. I hope that it feels that way working with the skill tree in reality! I still would trade it for a bunch of new PGI made and PLAYER MADE MAPS, combined arms, an economy, black market, tactical and strategic stuff we can do in CW, 8 v 8 or 6 v 6 raids, maybe some team vs. AI challenges that would represent activities that would support mine, or subvert the enemy factions. But it looks very nice, and I hope that it keeps me interested in playing while you guys start adding more meat and depth to the game!

On another note: DO NOT CONVERT MY MODULES INTO XP. I paid for C-bills for them and I want C-Bills back. I don't mind grinding up xp and leveling my mechs, but I absolutely hate grinding for C-bills to buy new stuff ESPECIALLY as I already earned the C-Bills. I've been expecting a C-Bill refund for months. It made me happy. I was excited to see how much I got back for all my 50+ modules. I don't need GXP or whatever. I have tons of that. I don't need XP on mechs I already own and enjoy, I have tons of that. I want my money back, damnit!

This +1000

[-Ramrod-]

Thank God I'm a Whale!

[Arkhangel]

BLOOD WOLF, on 27 April 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

Stop speaking for everyone. Why do people try to do this all the time on these forums?

because they're morons. I only ever speak for myself, and the people i know agree with me. to hear some of these guys talk, it's like the entire community of MWO posts on the forums... instead of.. what... 1 or 2% and maybe a hundredth of THAT actually posts regularly?

I may white knight on occasion, but honestly, I also know when to just suck it up and let things happen, because, frankly, hell or high water, the Skill tree is coming anyways. and like any other MMO i've played, I'll adapt to the change. it'll suck, and it'll annoy the hell out of me, but i will deal, and I will still enjoy myself blowing up and being blown up by giant robots... which is frankly the reason why we should be here, not to b***h and whine.

and.. to be fair... a lot of people saying this or that mech is unplayable... were likely not that great of a pilot in that mech to begin with. they might have been a DECENT pilot, but honestly... there's some people that can make a Chassis damn well shine, regardless of what anyone says about it. for instance, my Merc Corps' C.O. in his Dragons, or one of our guys in a Hunchback 4H who pretty much semi-constantly is known to wipe out half the enemy team on his own, regardless of their weight class or Faction.

Don't jump on a hype train just because you see a guy be awesome in a specific mech with a specific build. find the mech that works for you, learn it, and kick *** with it. I've logged god-knows how much time in my Yen-Lo, through every change that's hit it, and it's always stayed a solid performer, and it will continue to do so, because it's a Mech I know inside and out.

Edited by Arkhangel, 27 April 2017 - 12:35 PM.

[Skybirduk]

There is an easy way to satisfy those who want their C-Bills back and those who want the GSP option.

Increase the sale value of modules to the full value. That way, those who want the GSP can keep all of their modules to be converted. Those who want the C-Bills can simply sell their modules before the patch.

The only people who can't be happy with this are those who are so fanatical that they think that only their option can be allowed.

[Adamant80]

Although the refund system is imperfect it is acceptable in my book for how complicated everything is. My issue is with the weapon skill nodes being universal on all 'mechs. If I can't use a a specific hard-point type on my variant then why do I have to still invest in those to get to what I want? Surely there is something that can be done about this even if it is a small change to certain variants in terms of the tree structure?

[YUyahoo]

So after spend a few nights playing around on the test server I do think the refund system is much better than the first BUT we should still have the option to convert our GSP refund into CBills (if a SP costs 45000 cbills then we should be able to sell of GSPs for 45000 each) for those of us who do not want or need 1000s of GSP above the SPs needed to re-level the mechs that we own. Also respecing a mech should NOT have any cost associated with it, much like the way we can remove and add whatever modules we have currently...once you buy a node you should be able to turn it off and on freely whenever you like (also just like when you buy weapons, if you own a medium laser and a med pulse laser you can switch them out for each other infinitely without any cost)
As far as the skill tree goes...its STILL a huge mess with far too many unnecessary selections that are either unwanted or unusable for each and every mech out there. I still feel that if a mech doesn't have any ballistic HP for example all ballistic nodes for that mech should be grayed out and skipable...and likewise for arm agility nodes should be grayed out for any mech that doesn't have arm hard points. The senor tree needs to be completely restructured as well so that things like target decay and 360 target retention aren't blocking the path to radar deprivation and and seismic (perhaps they too should be grayed out if a mech doesn't have missile hard points or LRMs equipped). Just like the last still tree in PTS this one STILL does not give us equal bonuses to the system we currently have for the 91 points...sure you might be able to get 10% range for weapons but then you wont have enough points left to get full radar dep, full agility, full heat dissipation and full seismic as our current skill tree does (and if you have an ecm mech you also HAVE to invest skill points jut to have it operate as well as it does now). For the most part I was still hoping for a skill system that allows me to do more than the current on....NOT LESS than what we have now. When I look at the jump jet tree I think yeah that is kind of what I was hoping for in every category, something that ADDs to what we currently have without taking anything away and without having to take a bunch of unnecessary skills along the way to get to the end. Why can you guys come up with linear paths to take rather than this pyramid of random skills thrown together? It could be so much cleaner than it is (and with far less clicks as folks here keep begging for).
Also, as I've mention on the last two rounds of testing...why can't we have bonuses that are GREATER than the limits of the current tree...specifically for things like speed increase (which used to be 10%, not the 7.5% limit it currently is), radar dep and ecm (which also had a greater range than it currently does). Why can't we have the ability to truly customize our mechs (spend 5 SP on speed for 7.5%, 2 more for 8.5%, another 3 SP for a total of 10%...ecm range 120 for 1SP, 180 for 2SP and 0SP range is 90 as it currently is).
I get that you/PGI may be using this as an opportunity to increase time to kill but there has to be a better way to do this than to take the past 3 years of balancing on the game and throw it out the window...making the game "worse" for the sake of making it better only makes it worse.

[Johnny Z]

I was confused but finally found this. Helps a lot. Will be on test server soon.

[zudukai]

FFS get a F*ing clue already.

[StumbleBee]

zudukai, on 27 April 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

FFS get a F*ing clue already.

Is this for PGI or their detractors?

[ThiefofAlways]

PGI give us the option to convert 1 GSP to 45,000 c-bills and everyone will be happy with the way the ledger works. May be they still wont be happy with the tree but the refund system will be good to go. Then I can have as much c-bills as I need, as much SP as I need and I will buy more mechs and need more mech bays which will make you money. The tree still needs improvements but this would be a good start for us.

Nods to YUyahoo above

[MovinTarget]

ThiefofAlways, on 27 April 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

PGI give us the option to convert 1 GSP to 45,000 c-bills and everyone will be happy with the way the ledger works. May be they still wont be happy with the tree but the refund system will be good to go. Then I can have as much c-bills as I need, as much SP as I need and I will buy more mechs and need more mech bays which will make you money. The tree still needs improvements but this would be a good start for us.

Nods to YUyahoo above

I suggested this earlier. Make them commodities that we can choose to use or cash is some portion. With this, we will need more than the up/down arrows when selling since some players may be selling thousands at a time.

By giving us such an option it really is the best of both worlds as we may want to keep some for future mech aqcuisitions...

[Kael Posavatz]

I'm honestly split on the module reimbursement.

Yeah, I'd like the skill points, but I'd also like some c-bills (which makes sense to me because I spent GXP to unlock them and c-bills to purchase them) so maybe if we could chose? Get X one way and Y the other?

My main concern at this juncture is that we are going to have two major changes to game mechanics in the same number of months. PGI has a record of...less than stellar balance on release. I mean, Clan mechs took 30 months to balance, and some of the quirks were atrocious (ppc-spewing thuds come immediately to mind). I just worry that this game is going to be unplayable for half a year after.




BTW. I used to be a Whale. Now I'm not.

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 27 April 2017 - 02:29 PM.

[Kali Rinpoche]

~ Amended b/c I discovered Historic SP for all my mastered mechs. Reading comprehension sigh!

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 27 April 2017 - 03:23 PM.

[MrMagoo421]

Puttered around a bit. Overall, I'll learn to live with the changes. Actually, I see a lot of potential for a real refreshing shake-up from this once the kinks are worked out.

Clearly some of the quirks are still going to be needed to keep to every mech being playable, but they also haven't been zero'd like some fears out there. Without quirks at all, a lot of mechs are going to simply fade from use altogether and that would be a shame. This is going to need a lot of monitoring once the patch goes live. Some mechs are certainly going to need the numbers pushed back up some.

Some skill web differentiation couldn't hurt. Skill dots that are essential to get to where you want should never be for systems that a mech doesn't have the hardpoint to hold. Maybe black out dots that would be impossible for a mech to use as a simple step? I don't know the solution really, but there certainly needs to be a look at this.

Choice in the refund is likely the best way to go. I'll never own enough mechs to use all the points I'm getting from this, because I have full module loadouts for every mech I play with any regularity with a large stock for messing around. Maybe letting us mix and match with GSP's and Cbills as a choice in some way would be the best way to go. I know my wife and son who play far more casually then me are ecstatic about the GSP dots.....I'd like some money to buy more mechs to come from some of my modules if possible.

Pathing for selection of skill choices would be nice. Having to click all 5 dots in a line to get the one you want is tedious. Simplifying the UI to make it easier for players would likely make a lot of the tears I'm reading here fade away. Simple quality of life things can go along way to making people more agreeable .

My only serious complaint is the having to pay more exp every time you shuffle the tree. I mean sure, I have mechs with a million exp on them, but most people don't. It would be nice to be able to simply save multiple profiles and choose between them like most MMO's these days with gear set ups. Short of that though, we shouldn't be forced into serious grinds any time we want to rework the tree. I don't think the goal is to push the more casual players out of the idea of playing around with the options that are available. Why gate them out?

[MovinTarget]

Kali Rinpoche, on 27 April 2017 - 02:38 PM, said:

PGI - after all the vocal criticism about the C-bill costs for large mech stables, like mine, you failed again to address this issue!!!

256 mechs x 4,0095,000= 1,048,320,000 - Just to buy back 91 nodes worth of EXP on every mastered mech in the old system. May of which will now be worse (performance wise) than they were before.

Again I will be 1/2 a billion cbills short again to make content playable again for my entire stable.

I may have to cancel my last mech purchase, hold off on Civil War purchase I was about to make, and retire this beloved title.

Not sure you read their post then... every mech you owned will have some skill points based on their current level. If all your mechs are mastered you get a full 91 skill points FREE for each variant type.

Only if you didn't master all your mechs or have duplicates of a variant would you need to buy skill points. If they are not yet leveled, what are you complaining about?

Edited by MovinTarget, 27 April 2017 - 03:18 PM.