549 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

To elaborate a bit...

I kinda get the game design appeal of making it a complex tree with unlock nodes and what not. But I think there needs to be some complexity removed. Either no complex unlock structure, allowing you to fold in the separate nodes for a skill type (like Laser Range) of the tree into a single node that you can take multiple times, or by removing the strict mech dependency...

[Hawk819]

The weapons skill tree is way too big! Velocity 10! Are you kidding me?! And plus, as I said before, ninety-ones is not going to cut, so I guess I'm stuck with it as is.

[HerbieTheCar]

Commander James Raynor, on 25 April 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

Yeah, I know that's the whole point, but I'm not sure I agree. I know this may come from the fact that I own 2 TBR, one of them special, and I intended to buy one more, but the nerf that I saw from the numbers and the feel of the mech in the previous PTS, I feel it's too big a blow. When you compare it with others in its weight (Black night, for example) its values are just too low, and if you check the Cyclops, it is WAY more agile than a mech 15 tons lighter (and with a huge, now useless, engine, by the way).

How do you think it feels playing IS getting outranged and outgunned in almost every single fight if you do not possess the basic skills of a pilot? I don't think this exhaustive skill tree is the way to fix it, but some mechs do need to be nerfed. I am currently downloading the PTS patch but from the looks of it, it is way too complicated and the addition of new XP values makes me feel that PGI is only in it for the cash grab and the conversion fees.

[Jay Leon Hart]

2 quick points;
1. MC consumable refunds?! Oh My Goodness YES!
2. GSP for "old" modules, instead of C-Bills? YES!

[Cato Phoenix]

The refund was probably thought out a little bit more. Hope it makes people happy.

However, as far as the actual content/makeup of the skill tree, and all the problems associated with it, not much has changed.

[BlueWizi]

Really happy with the changes to the refund system. Seems much more fair and lets people keep their progress on their mechs, instead of punishing people with lots of mechs.

To people complaining about too many clicks and transaction confusion, I disagree. Yeah, it might be a bit of a process to transfer the old XP types to the new, but that's just a one time thing per mech. And I'm happy PGI is letting players control that themselves, instead of doing it automatically.

[Deathlike]

Does PGI not even look at their own tree and see Gauss being the closest accessible dakka quirk? UACs are jammed in the lower right corner while LBX is in the lower section and has odd stuff in the way.

Then there's arm quirks in the way of more useful quirks like turn speed. Why are they like forced conjoined twins?

Tree still needs more work.

[Tordin]

Looks promising, but needs some tweaking. Great refunds though.
Also just hardwire the ST ASAP (may) and balance/ change/ adjust from there to please everyone (not possible, in ANY game) before the ultra competive, non-adaptive, comfort zoners and dumbstruck scare you PGI to ditch the ST like the ED and Info warfare.
You stay the course now, keep the head cool, listen to feedback, grit your teeth, NO going back!



Gonna test some from now on.

Edited by Tordin, 25 April 2017 - 01:18 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

*sighs*

Leave the current quirks alone until this is live, then reduce those needed to be reduced, over the next month or three.

This skill tree is not going to help IS-Clan Balance, if you don't see that, then there really is no hope

[Savage Wolf]

I mentioned this the last time as well. Why do I have to first pay to be able to equip more consumables and then also pay for all those consumables each and every match. And if I wanted to do that on anything it would be on lights that don't earn much c-bills to begin with. I'll probably be losing c-bills.
Which other skill tree costs continued c-bills to use?

Fix what should have been fixed anyway. Make consumables free.

[Kael Posavatz]

is there any particular reason why the crab/king crab don't benefit from open/closing their claws?

[HerbieTheCar]

PGI IS OUT TO MAKE A QUICK BUCK AND NEVER BALANCE THE GAME

[Deathlike]

As for refunds... I would like all my modules to give back straight C-bills homie. I don't want them pre/auto-converted to some other currency.

[Felbombling]

PGI, you keep chugging along and are making great progress with the skill tree. I have a few points to make, as feedback from a player with 100 or so Mechs in the hangar.

Positives:

• You really listened to our feedback on the refund values and the stunted progress under the last iteration.
  
• Every imaginable source of XP has been covered this time around, with appropriate refunds.
  
• Your stated goals of avoiding min-maxing and the like seem to be built into this newer version.

Worries:

• As others have stated, the click-fest will be real with this skill system. If I'm looking at upgrading my 100 Mechs to Mastery, that's 9100 clicks to get them all done over time. Could you provide me a new mouse, please? lol
  
• Could you have taken an approach that pooled 'cadet level' skills together at a value of, say, 10 skill points and made it a package deal for 1 click purchasing? You could mimic early basic skill point purchases from the old system and justify things like arm movement and the like in those early cadet training program days.
  
• If we could get the skill system to take big chunks of skill points for blanket skill packages, and then let the remaining 41 or so skill points dig into the finer details, such as Advanced Zoom, Radar Deprivation, Armour Hardening, Module slot additions, etc., I think it would go a long way in customizing Mechs tailored to the player, free of multiple clicking to accomplish the same goal.

All in all, another step in the right direction, but I certainly hope you can look at paring down the trees in the future to something a little more manageable for players with extensive garage assets.

[FlynnTheAvatar]

- Pestilence -, on 25 April 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

"Too many clicks" seriously ? What an argument is that.

Yes, I am. One way to detected bad UI/UX is to count the steps/clicks needed to do something. The more steps/clicks you need the worse is the UI/UX. Yes, there are other measurements like how long it takes. But the clicks are enough to say that this is bad design. Why do we need to select 91 skill nodes? There are no shortcuts to select a complete tree. Not even that the UI unlocks all skill nodes on it way to lower skill node when you click it. No, you have to select each and every node.

Do I like clicking more than 91 times to fully master a mech? No, I do not. Not even for one mech and much less for all of my mastered mechs.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Deathlike, on 25 April 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

As for refunds... I would like all my modules to give back straight C-bills homie. I don't want them pre/auto-converted to some other currency.

That "currency" you are complaining about is Skill Points, you know, the things that make your guns shoot faster and increase range... The things that Modules do.

[Jay Leon Hart]

StaggerCheck, on 25 April 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

*snip*

You know, "skill templates" could be a very useful thing.

I know when I tested the first two iterations, 80-90% of my picks were identical between all 'mechs.

[Deathlike]

Prosperity Park, on 25 April 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

That "currency" you are complaining about is Skill Points, you know, the things that make your guns shoot faster and increase range... The things that Modules do.

I like C-bills. Don't you dare pull BS on this discussion. I'll spend them when I NEED TO, NOT HOARD "BONUS" SKILL POINTS FOR MECHS I WILL NEVER USE EVER AGAIN. I want the C-bills FOR ALL THE OTHER THINGS like engines, mechs... THINGS THAT ARE MORE USEFUL THAN SKILL POINTS.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 April 2017 - 01:32 PM.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

My first beef loading this up is the change to all modules bought before feb 2017 are not GXP and not cbills. I don't like that change. I have a **** ton of XP sitting around, I don't need more GXP which I can't mix and match with normal XP to fill gaps to get SP so GXP is useless in this new model to me. 7million cbills refunded via this, 800ish MC and 174,000 GXP that I don't give a **** about because I have so much HXP that I can just fill out every mech right friggen now.

Like, okay, I do enjoy the MC refund, thank you, it is nice to get refunded that, I like getting back the GXP put into unlocking modules, but, I would like the cbills back for having bought various modules that are now skills. Certainly at 91SP per mech at 45k per sp on seismic sensor gives you 151 skill points, so the few modules I have would likely cover every mech I have, and I know there are those with far more it wouldn't. I like the consumable refunds as well, that was a wise move as well, good on you PGI. But, again, GXP for Cbills is a bad move imo.

This doesn't even get into balance, I'll get into that once I mess around with a bunch of my mechs with no skills then start putting skills on them. Still, I feel GXP repayment for something I paid Cbills for is wrong, sorry PGI, you need to change that, all owned modules must be 100% refunded, all GXP unlocks give GXP refunds makes sense, but, modules before x date giving XP instead of cbills ***** over people who were "cheapskates" and buying mech packs or following the rule of 3 to level mechs and rarely investing into modules outside of a core set of them that they used for their CW drop deck or competitive mechs. This game was sold on buying lots of mechs, not modules, if someone becomes richer than Blake due to having a hoard of modules that would make a dragon blush then they are likely an exception not the rule. Look at the most common number of modules people own to see how much of an "impact on the in game economy" this cbill injection would have. Hell this would be a one time thing, worst situation is people end up spending some money and buying some more mech bays to buy some extra mechs and you make a couple extra bucks off of people, oh no.

Edit: Yes, I see they made it so earlier modules are locked to SP point buys, but, eh, whatever, it is annoying to me.

Edited by Moonlight Grimoire, 25 April 2017 - 01:36 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

Cathy, on 25 April 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

*sighs*

Leave the current quirks alone until this is live, then reduce those needed to be reduced, over the next month or three.

This skill tree is not going to help IS-Clan Balance, if you don't see that, then there really is no hope

I agree but the problem is if they give everyone all the benefits of the ST and the previously existing quirks for a month or two and then try to take the quirks away the "Why you NERF my Mech!!!" outrage will be deafening. It may be better to take them away now and then give them back where needed to avoid the mob reaction. No one, will ever complain about getting quirks added back.