549 replies to this topic

[Gorgo7]

Random thoughts,

I did a cursory check and realized 1/2 of my mechs are Mastered...I am cash poor, so, close to the change-over (if nothing is modified) I will be selling about 1/2 of my modules for spare cash. This will still leave me a surplus of about 65 GSP per mech in my stable. I imagine it will be sufficient.

Edited by Gorgo7, 30 April 2017 - 03:43 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Yeah, i don't think there is much of a chance they'll retool the skill tree to much at this point which is why many of us are focusing on the minutia of things like refund flexibility...

@theLuc, you can say they shouldn't be a mechwarrior title all ya want, but they have the licences and they do lots of stuff closer to TT than MW3, MW4, or mektek did...

I am not white knighting, just tired of people attacking them for trying to make/maintain a game that was essentially set on a particular path before they got the reigns fully from IGP.

They could have just cut their losses but no, they've tried to get FP/tech balance/skills right...

They tried to give you all the things that were promised. I know a lot of vocal people are bitter about the implementation, heck, i am not always that thrilled.

The fact is, you have lore-ists, twitch players, new players, old players and will be impossible to please them all.

Edited by MovinTarget, 30 April 2017 - 04:11 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Duilliath, on 30 April 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Yet there wasn't even an event this weekend.

Deliberately trolling or just ignorant ? Very hard to tell on here. Roughneck leaderboard and Incursion challenge ended the 25th...the PTS2 began on the 26th and went to the 28th.

[Dee Eight]

Duilliath, on 30 April 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

The fact is, that by canon, a mech with a larger engine equipped goes faster because that engine can cause the leg myomers to contract faster. If the engine will move the leg myomers faster then it should move the arm and torso myomers fasters as well.

Yes...but the movement system treated direction changes and torso twisting the same for all mechs regardless of their mass. That a cicida or assassin with a 320 engine... has the same movement points as a locust with a 160... does not mean the locust is more agile than the 40 ton mechs (unlike in this game).

[TheLuc]

And still you are right Movingtarget, just want to point out that the game in its current form should be called Mechwarrior Arena or Solaris7 rather than Mechwarrior Online.

Please them all ? Its clear its impossible.

You might be tired of people attacking PGI like myself but with all the broken promises, half baked game modes, bugs, balance issues, bad comments, questionable business practices, upcoming championship joke, lies or half truths and Faction Warfare that I wrote from the beginning that it was born to fail. Lets say they just provide so much ammo do shoot back at them, we will never run out.

I don't consider you are White Knighting.

Efforts they are doing, lets just say the faith is long gone and I don't see any thing that I could consider an effort from PGI, its just a rehash of same old, over and over.

Now back to the actual Topic, I still have that sour taste of gated skills ( still has nothing to do with actual skill ) engine decoupling and the lie of more variety when there will be only 2 viable paths, glass cannon or tougher than usual.

Players wanted change, they will get it and again not in the form that they hoped for.

[Marius Romanis]

I just want to see a accurate refund ledger from Dec 3rd not a useless feb 8th inaccurate refund ledger before this goes live.

[MovinTarget]

TheLuc, on 30 April 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

And still you are right Movingtarget, just want to point out that the game in its current form should be called Mechwarrior Arena or Solaris7 rather than Mechwarrior Online.

Please them all ? Its clear its impossible.

You might be tired of people attacking PGI like myself but with all the broken promises, half baked game modes, bugs, balance issues, bad comments, questionable business practices, upcoming championship joke, lies or half truths and Faction Warfare that I wrote from the beginning that it was born to fail. Lets say they just provide so much ammo do shoot back at them, we will never run out.

I don't consider you are White Knighting.

Efforts they are doing, lets just say the faith is long gone and I don't see any thing that I could consider an effort from PGI, its just a rehash of same old, over and over.

Now back to the actual Topic, I still have that sour taste of gated skills ( still has nothing to do with actual skill ) engine decoupling and the lie of more variety when there will be only 2 viable paths, glass cannon or tougher than usual.

Players wanted change, they will get it and again not in the form that they hoped for.

As long as you can say with all certainty that it is the fault of PGI and not IGP, then not much else to say...

However, and however flawed it may appear, this does not look like a game they are giving up on.

[Kai Allard Liao]

This Refund is a Slap into my Face!

30 Mechmodules and 27 Wep-Modules. Thats ~ 250 Mill C-Bill, which i spent much Time and Work for.

For around 60 Modules I will get 0 (!!!!!!!) not even one single C-Bill.


I m forced to bank GSP, which is totally useless to me. Mechs I already own will have enough XP to get skilled again without GSP. How many Mechs, Engines, Omnipots or Weapons can I buy for GSP? I used C-Bill to buy the Modules and GSP is what i get back?



(Bison-Dollar)


Mechs I will buy in the Future: I never would use C-Bill to skill them up without playing. I dont waste GXP in the old System for that nor do I want/need GSP in the Future. If I want to skill-up a Mech, I play it. That's the most cheapest and economical Way.

The new-RefundSystem feels like a ROBBERY to me. HATE IT!

Kai

Edited by Kai Allard Liao, 01 May 2017 - 02:29 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Kai Allard Liao, on 01 May 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

This Refund is a Slap into my Face!

30 Mechmodules and 27 Wep-Modules. Thats ~ 250 Mill C-Bill, which i spent much Time and Work for.

For around 60 Modules I will get 0 (!!!!!!!) not even one single C-Bill.


I m forced to bank GSP, which is totally useless to me. Mechs I already own will have enough XP to get skilled again without GSP. How many Mechs, Engines, Omnipots or Weapons can I buy for GSP? I used C-Bill to buy the Modules and GSP is what i get back?



(Bison-Dollar)


Mechs I will buy in the Future: I never would use C-Bill to skill them up without playing. I dont waste GXP in the old System for that nor do I want/need GSP in the Future. If I want to skill-up a Mech, I play it. That's the most cheapest and economical Way.

The new-RefundSystem feels like a ROBBERY to me. HATE IT!

Kai

Let's not go overboard, you have been playing since august 2014 so you had 2.5 years to accrue... 57 modules?

Son, there are people that have *hundreds* of modules acquired over the same time (or less)...

You can be somewhat peeved, you can be annoyed, but a "slap in the face"? That's a bit strong...

For example, I have been playing just a mere 4 months more (4/2014) and I had around 550--600 weapon/mech modules at the the time of the initial announcement.

See, unless you didn't level the mechs you used those modules on up to mastery, you will still get the HSP to set them *all* up, and not have to swap modules around.

Buy new mechs? Insta-leveled. Bam.

So relax and ease off the trigger.

Edited by MovinTarget, 01 May 2017 - 02:57 AM.

[MovinTarget]

That's fine, but just remember we all know more about each other than we care to admit sometimes so don't pretend your motives are obfuscated.

We all get hit by the public opinion bat here in the forums so its best not to dive in unless you can stand your ground...

All i am say is 250 million earned over 2.5 years is not that big a time investment... thats basically 100 million a year or 280k cbills daily which is, what, 2-3 decent QP drops or a single FP loss if I lowball the earnings.

Yes, I don't know much about you but, the trick is to explain enough about your situation so that you don't come across as a special snowflake...

You were counting on the cbill refund, you need the cbill refund, maybe you made purchases because you expected the cbill refund...

*Thats* a legitimate argument. If you want support, I would lead with that.

Edited by MovinTarget, 01 May 2017 - 04:10 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Kai Allard Liao, on 01 May 2017 - 04:50 AM, said:

I m playing since November 2012.

To count up, how much virtuall stuff i collected on several Accounts in all this time is not important to my Statement. Also if its a loss about 6 Modules or 60.

It is important in the sense that there is a severe possibility that you are overvaluing your time in a f2p game and running dangerously close to contracting special snowflake syndrome...

...I'm trying to save you here!


Because, whether you want to admit it or not, size (or in this case, scope) matters.

I will agree with you on the fact that its all "virtual stuff", that is part of the reason I'm trying to help you see there is no point in getting so bent out of shape.

What are you going to do when the game dies (all games die, I'm not forecasting imminent doom) and you don't keep *any* of your virtual stuff?

You don't like the fact that they are not refunding *OLD* modules for cbills. Got it. I would posit that this in and of itself does not constitute a "slap in the face". They said at first they were going to give us a full refund and they changed it, but its not like they changed it to GSP and nothing else. No, that money you invested in modules was for the sole purpose of IMPROVING mechs, so they gave you GSP and HSP to do just that.

But you still want cbills. This is why I call shenanigans on your "slap in the face" assertion. You wanted the refund to suit your own purposes and you're mad because they botched that. Not for any other reason, you wanted to use that "virtual stuff" to do other "virtual stuff" than re-specc your existing mechs and that was never what their goal was. They were going to refund the modules so that it would offset the cost of respeccing, if you made other plans for your cbills that is not PGI's fault. Now that they've had to change the approach (since all mechs will be getting some or all of their 91 HSP), they don't need to give you all those cbills back.

Agree or disagree, it's far from a slap in the face, they just decided to address the problem in a different manner than you had your heart set on.

All I can do is recommend you either dissociate the time you put into this game from concepts like "investment" and "work" and treat it as recreation which is what it probably should be seeing how the only people making money in this game are the MWOWC finalists.

Edited by MovinTarget, 01 May 2017 - 05:13 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Kai Allard Liao, on 01 May 2017 - 05:20 AM, said:

@Movin: To much Text, i didnt read it.

@ PGI:

tl;dr

You spent those cbills on mech enhancements (modules), PGI is refunding you in mech enhancements (GSP).

Not a slap in the face unless you were looking to spend cbills on non-mech enhancements which is not PGI's problem ergo not really a slap in the face.

Edited by MovinTarget, 01 May 2017 - 05:30 AM.

[MovinTarget]

I'm sorry you don't agree nor have time to consider anyone's opinion but your own...

I'm fine agreeing to disagree, but consider in your approach to this discussion, your original assertion that I know nothing about you is now false...

In fact everyone that has read this will know exactly what they need to know about you.

[metallio]

The special snowflake question seems pretty well settled.

[DangerousOne]

MovinTarget, on 01 May 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

tl;dr

You spent those cbills on mech enhancements (modules), PGI is refunding you in mech enhancements (GSP).

Not a slap in the face unless you were looking to spend cbills on non-mech enhancements which is not PGI's problem ergo not really a slap in the face.

Man, but wait! There is nothing to spend C-Bill on, other than mech enhancements or new mechs in this game.

And question still stands - Doesn't it look like dirty move when they (PGI) refund your purchace with other currency than you spent. For example you bought excursion for 20 bucks. But then the company which organized this trip said to you - "Sorry we cancel this trip. But don't worry we will refund your expences her is your 200 seashells, good day to you".

Edited by DangerousOne, 01 May 2017 - 07:32 AM.

[Taxxian]

I dont understand why so many people speak of "loss" we actually get gifts... there is no loss involved only profit...

The old system gave us passive bonuses for skills and modules without much choice involved.

We needed arround 60k XP and 14 to 18 Mio Cbills per Mech, but we where able to swap the modules arround.

The new system gives us comparable passive bonuses for SKILL POINTS (SP) with much more choice involved (I deliberately do not say perfect choice)

PGI made the choice to refund way more than we ever investet, I get 600 Mio CBills in HSP and another 800 Mio Cbills in GSP, while only having invested 800 Millions in Modules...

Would I like to get some of this in CBills? Hell yeah! But I chose to invest in passive bonuses which I am still having in a reformed way. So a am happy to get all the SP, I dont feel like loosing CBills, I already invested them.

[metallio]

I mean, I get why some people want C-Bills. it's a preference that I'd have in their place...but don't be a d!ck about it, you blew that cash long ago and if you want some of it instead of GSP, sell some of them before the patch. It's not frikkin' complicated.

If you want full C-bill value as an option, lobby PGI, but most of us are getting over with the GSP instead of Cbills so don't expect a massive movement behind you.

[Jay Leon Hart]

DangerousOne, on 01 May 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

Man, but wait! There is nothing to spend C-Bill on, other than mech enhancements or new mechs in this game.

And question still stands - Dosen't it look like dirty move when they (PGI) refund your purchace with other currency than you spent. For example you bought excursion for 20 bucks. But then the company which organized this trip said to you - "Sorry we cancel this trip. But don't worry we will refund your expences her is your 200 seashells, good day to you".

They cancelled you excursion, so they gave you 20 coupons for 20 more excursions.

[DangerousOne]

Jay Leon Hart, on 01 May 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

They cancelled you excursion, so they gave you 20 coupons for 20 more excursions.

We can see that there are two kind of people when it comes to case of refund. This who want to get back the same thing that they spent and this who just don't care as long as they get something different but they fine with this different thing. I think both have their point. But I also think that there should be options to let everyone chose what way is more suitable for him.

And btw.... They won't give you mentioned coupons. They'll give you seashells. If you don't fine with seashells it's your problem. No coupons for you.

Edited by DangerousOne, 01 May 2017 - 07:49 AM.

[MovinTarget]

DangerousOne, on 01 May 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

There is nothing to spend C-Bill on, other than mech enhancements or new mechs in this game.

And that's the thing, people with waaaaay more modules than Kai would have an "unfair buying advantage now" so a different set of people would whine.

They took apples in the "old system" and tried to give us apples in the "new system"

You spent cbills to enhance mechs, you get GSP to enhance mechs... how is that so terrible? When you get a factory recall, you typically don't get your money back, you get some sort of fix or compensation *similar to the original purchase*

DangerousOne, on 01 May 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

Doesn't it look like dirty move when they (PGI) refund your purchace with other currency than you spent. For example you bought excursion for 20 bucks. But then the company which organized this trip said to you - "Sorry we cancel this trip. But don't worry we will refund your expences her is your 200 seashells, good day to you".

It would look dirty if they didn't give you HSP as well, but that's what happened. They changed the fact that we get HSP for our work on existing mechs which means you don't need (as much) cbills to spec your mechs. Yes, they made a decision to convert modules to GSP (pre 12/3) and you could argue that GSP are not as useful as cbills, but only if you want to use them for what they were not originally spent on: mech enhancements.

My proposal is to simply give us the ability to sell blocks of GSP for cbills so we get the choice and if I want to I can sit on them until I need them as GSP or as CBills. That way everybody gets what they want.

The reason I took the time to try to reason out the discussion with Kai was that his approach was not constructive, based in logic, or rational. It was all about what he is feeling, and that's fine, but it doesn't give a reason for PGI to change their approach.