58 replies to this topic

[soapyfrog]

Node costs and respec costs are the same as last PTS and respecing is still an open ended cost.

Firstly, a node I have unlocked should never cost anything to reacquire. It absolutely should not cost XP period.

Secondly, the idea that you may have to unlock substantially more nodes than 91 per mech as you want to try different things or as the meta changes makes the true cost of "mastery" much much higher.

I implore PGI to change the system so that skill points cost 45k cbills and 800xp, you are capped at 91, and then these can be allocated freely and at no cost to skill nodes and moved around freely and with no cost.

This would make the cost of mastering a mech a fairly reasonable and understandable 72800 XP and 4.1 million cbills (which IMHO I think is still too much but whatever) and once you are done you are DONE paying for that mech. It removes the pointless and punishing respec costs.

I am not going to pay money for a game that imposes these open ended costs on me for wanting to change my builds. The sense of completion and the ability to use a mech at it's full potential without some ******** extra grind thrown at me is critical to my enjoyment of the game and my willingness to buy new mechs.

Charging XP for respecs is unacceptable, and I will not support this game if it stays like this.

[Ced Riggs]

I was able to unslot a module and reslot it before, even if my loadout changed.

Now, I cannot do that unless I grind out more XP. And if I don't like the new loadout and want to revert back, I am being taxed again. Why.

[Excalibaard]

It's to make sure you can use the hundreds of thousands of XP still left-over unused on your favourite mechs. You could always avoid skilling your mech before you've found the build you like to run the most, but the respec cost idea is very fair imo.

EDIT: sounded contradictionary with future posts. I appreciate the IDEA, the final values can be edited.

Edited by Excalibaard, 27 April 2017 - 03:51 AM.

[El Rizzo]

Excalibaard, on 26 April 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

It's to make sure you can use the hundreds of thousands of XP still left-over unused on your favourite mechs. You could always avoid skilling your mech before you've found the build you like to run the most, but the respec cost is very fair imo.

That argument only works for people who already have a lot of mastered mechs and modules for which they get refunds, for people who are still relatively new to the game this system means a lot of grinding and is very punishing as it already takes longer to master one mech now than it has before.

Furthermore, this respec system contradicts PGI's own statement of wanting to offer more variety of builds and playstyles with the new skilltree as it actually prevents people from experimenting when they get punished for it. This system will force people to play one build per mech and stick with it because if they change their build they have to respec parts of the skilltree and have to regrind xp which kills any motivation to mess around with builds. The only logical result of respec costs will be that people will run their favorite (meta) build and set their skilltree once and will never bother to try anything else with it unless the meta shifts and we are forced to grind xp, which will only further agitate players.

Edited by El Rizzo, 26 April 2017 - 06:09 AM.

[Excalibaard]

I agree, it's far from a good argument for new players and tinkerers (me) alike. I was just stating the reason

[Lily from animove]

While nearly all changes to unlocks were good, the 400xp respec is really not good. for people that play good, its a short grind to respec, for people that are not so good it will be painful.


and now guess which of both will mostlikely need a repsec because they initially will spec wrong.

either make them gone or like 40xp per respec. But such high respec costs will still create a gap between good players and casuals. Especially when any changes to wepaons or mechs happen and need rerolling the trees.

[King Chimera]

It really shouldn't cost anything to respec, you already spent c-bills and xp on it, why should you have to pay more just to experiment with different loadouts! This si especially bad on omnimechs since they have even more variety in hardpoints.

[oldradagast]

The respect cost is just a slap in the face and some silly attempt to punish people for changing their mech builds. It's idiotic and has no place in a game like this, where the mechlab and changing your mech is a huge part of the game.

The respec cost isn't large enough to be crippling - and PGI isn't going to make lots of money from people buying premium time to mitigate it, if that's their stupid plan. But it is large enough to be insulting and diminish effective earnings a game that already pays out squat to players who do anything other than lots of damage in winning matches.

GRIND is NOT CONTENT, and respec costs have no place in a game like this.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Agree totally. 400XP per node is rubbish.

I dont care that I have to buy each and every node I want to try but to have to pay again and again and again to change between them is just BS.

Edited by DrVoodooAUS, 26 April 2017 - 04:22 PM.

[Mycroft000]

Respec cost of 400/node(after nodes are unlocked) is not a "slap in the face" it's an XP sink for all that unused XP we all have sitting on fully mastered Mechs. I own 4 Nova Primes, and have 2,772,996 MXP sitting on it that the only thing I can do with all of that under the live system, is convert for MC. Under the new system all of that "useless" XP then has a use.

[oldradagast]

mycroft000, on 26 April 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

Respec cost of 400/node(after nodes are unlocked) is not a "slap in the face" it's an XP sink for all that unused XP we all have sitting on fully mastered Mechs. I own 4 Nova Primes, and have 2,772,996 MXP sitting on it that the only thing I can do with all of that under the live system, is convert for MC. Under the new system all of that "useless" XP then has a use.

Sorry, but that make as much sense as me raising the price of the food you buy and you being happy about it so you don't "waste" all that saved money you have lying around.

I can't believe anyone would argue with a straight face that paying more for something is "better" because it allows them to burn up some resource they have lying around.

Oh, and that doesn't even mention the problems this will cause for new players or people with new mechs who don't have a billion XP sitting around on that mech. But who cares about new players or selling new mechs - neither of those are important to keeping the business going, right?

Edited by oldradagast, 26 April 2017 - 03:42 PM.

[Mycroft000]

Honestly, from a game immersion/lore perspective I would be okay with C-Bill costs and no XP costs. Upgrades cost money.

[El Rizzo]

mycroft000, on 26 April 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

Honestly, from a game immersion/lore perspective I would be okay with C-Bill costs and no XP costs. Upgrades cost money.

That might be true, but gameplay has to come first, this is a game after all and lore/immersion has to come second to playability I'm afraid. One could also argue that once you have obtained a specific upgrade for your mech (aka skillnode) it is part of your inventory, by removing it you don't lose it but it simply gets stored in your inventory and can be reinstalled at any future point. That way you could also argue from a lore/immersion perspective that upgrades, once you have bought them, are permanently available to you and can be installed/removed without additional costs .

Edited by El Rizzo, 26 April 2017 - 04:15 PM.

[King Chimera]

mycroft000, on 26 April 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

Respec cost of 400/node(after nodes are unlocked) is not a "slap in the face" it's an XP sink for all that unused XP we all have sitting on fully mastered Mechs. I own 4 Nova Primes, and have 2,772,996 MXP sitting on it that the only thing I can do with all of that under the live system, is convert for MC. Under the new system all of that "useless" XP then has a use.

Like oldradagast said, this may be trivial for players with mechs sitting on an abundance of xp, but this would cause problems for newly purchased mechs and new players. The XP cost just to change a node that you had already purchased is moronic with how the mechlab works. This isn't an MMO where you likely wouldn't need to respec often.

[Chound]

Excalibaard, on 26 April 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

I agree, it's far from a good argument for new players and tinkerers (me) alike. I was just stating the reason

Certain parts of the mech skills would remain the same. sensors, auxillary, security and operations. The only thiing you would skip is firepower. This is where the skills are needed most also with the extra nodes the 91 might be too low since to get a speed tweek we would need to buy the speed tweek nodes and the nodes that lead to the spead tweak. in both systems the weapons is a weak spot also having to repurchase the consumables.

[captaincoffee]

I don't like xp costs for reequipping nodes, this would bother me immensely I think. Also I don't particularly improve of the notion that this xp cost would give unused xp a function. The function is mostly "make it vanish into thin air" which is just not interesting. I want to be able to mess with my mechs and I don't want a huge xp cost getting in the way of my fun. Just for clarity, I'm fine with one-time costs for node unlocks.

Edited by captaincoffee, 26 April 2017 - 04:29 PM.

[Dagrin Kargis]

@PGI
I agree with this post and the quoted section in particular.

soapyfrog, on 26 April 2017 - 05:21 AM, said:

Firstly, a node I have unlocked should never cost anything to reacquire. It absolutely should not cost XP period.

It is a staple of the MechWarrior brand to encourage the customization of 'mechs, particularly as new weapons become available in the timeline or due to the available funds of the Warrior. Applying a cost to this customization does not encourage change or 'playing around' with new builds.

As with any MMO, MWO will have eventual tweaks made in an attempt to 'balance' the gameplay as the developers and player base seek a happy medium in their desires. In our case this will be in the form of weapon and chassis adjustments, which affects where a player feels they need to spend the earned XP points. Feeling the need to spend more effort to adjust a 'mech skill tree after such a tweak will not encourage a positive feeling from a player towards the dev team, especially if they didn't agree with the change to begin with.

Lastly, think of it from a business perspective. Experience points need to be earned, meaning time spent in a 'mech already owned rather than a newly purchased 'mech and the bay to go with it. So I wonder, what's in your wallet?

[oldradagast]

Dagrin Kargis, on 26 April 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

Lastly, think of it from a business perspective. Experience points need to be earned, meaning time spent in a 'mech already owned rather than a newly purchased 'mech and the bay to go with it. So I wonder, what's in your wallet?

I am reasonably convinced at this point that PGI's plan going forward is to try to make a lot of money selling premium time. Make the grind longer and more boring and frustrating and punish people for daring to change their mech. Add in regular skill-tree shakeups (new tech, "rebalancing," etc) and they can make it an endless struggle to keep leveling up your mechs... so, they hope you'll buy premium time to make it easier. This also kind of fits with the shift away from 3 of a kind and the fact that they are running out of popular mechs to sell.

The fatal flaw in their reasoning is two-fold:
- People are far less likely to spend money on something consumable and fleeting like premium time vs. something "permanent," like a mech, camo, etc.
- People are not likely to spend money on premium time just so they can get through a miserably frustrating process faster; they are simply less likely to play the game. Expecting customers to pay more to experience slightly less "suck" is not a viable business strategy

[Naaaaak]

Excalibaard, on 26 April 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

but the respec cost is very fair imo.

Excalibaard: 0.89 W/L Ratio. Tier 3?

No respec cost is fair. A pillar of the game is customization and experimentation. The "fair" cost for changing your loadout and trying new things is 0 XP once you've already made the unlock. You should try it more. You might get out of Tier 3.

[Marius Romanis]

Respec Costs Must Go Are Low

FTFY.


By the time you play a few games in 1st spec / loadout you'll have enough xp for a new spec/loadout.

Edited by CadoAzazel, 26 April 2017 - 11:51 PM.