187 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Perfect analogy, OP. Are you the mastermind behind the "You wouldn't download a car" public service announcement, by any chance?

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

Click, on 26 April 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

No they won't, stop being so dramatic. It won't be as bad as y'all naysayers like to make everyone think, you know why? Because the skill tree is a WIP. PGI will continue to improve on it and people will adapt. You'll adapt as well if you stick around. If you don't, have fun in some other game, there are like a bajillion of em. If you spent like $500+ on this, well you really shouldn't have, sucks to be you.

I don't think you get the point. The point is people will stick around because they love the franchise. But there will be people who will be put off on spending money on this. Also, those people who have spent $500+ on this over the years are probably those that have kept the game afloat. Telling them they shouldn't have kind of goes against the point you are trying to make.

As an example, $500 is just ~7 mech packs in the current form of single mechs, and maybe just 5 mech packs when it used to be 4 mechs.

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 26 April 2017 - 12:01 PM.

[Alan Davion]

Click, on 26 April 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

No they won't, stop being so dramatic. It won't be as bad as y'all naysayers like to make everyone think, you know why? Because the skill tree is a WIP. PGI will continue to improve on it and people will adapt. You'll adapt as well if you stick around. If you don't, have fun in some other game, there are like a bajillion of em. If you spent like $500+ on this, well you really shouldn't have, sucks to be you.

You're right, it does suck to be me cause I spent easily TWICE that much over the time I've been playing, because I wanted this game to succeed.

But through a combination of some ultra-comp-meta-humping-try-hards and PGIs own staggering incompetence, the game is going in a direction it should never have gone.

And I'm not being dramatic. I never said it would be a mass exodus like the SLDF. It could very well be only one person a month leaving, but people will still leave, and that will eventually begin to affect the game as a whole.

[Naduk]

dogstar
we are not upset about losing credits
we are upset about having our choice taken away from us

under the old system we chose to buy modules
we ran fewer mechs and kitted them out
while others bought more mechs/weapons and swapped modules between them

the system is being reset
and a new one put in place

instead of being able to choose how to use this new system like everyone else
we are being forced exchange our effort for a currency that gives us litterly zero benefit

if it was a mere need for depreciation then fine, reduce the value of old modules
but this is completely different, we are being given monopoly money in exchange for our trade in
turns out you cant use play money to buy a car of any kind

let me demonstrate the effect this system has

i have 85 mastered mechs in stable
i have sold about 40 mastered mechs in the past
i get 91 slots worth on each mastered mech as well as the thousands of historical XP on each chassis i have

i will not need to spend anything to remaster my 85 mechs, this is because the people who did not buy many modules complained loudly at how unfair the previous system was and got their way

i get a return 45,000,000 cbills for modules i have bought recently
thats quite a lot
i also get 15,200 GSP (yay me)
but i dont need more skill points because my mechs are already catered for

so now i need to buy new mechs
at 91 slots per mech i would need to buy 167 new mechs (i can tell you now i dont have that many mech bays)
this 15,200 GSP did not come from nowhere, it came from my previous modules
for the record thats 192 modules worth 678,000,000 cbills

so you can bet your *** that i will be selling all my modules before the refund if this stupid system still goes ahead
i will take a 50% tax over a 99% loss
because at least then i get to choose where my time and effort gets spent
instead of it being locked into a fake currency that i will never be able to use

Edited by Naduk, 26 April 2017 - 12:11 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Jaybles, on 26 April 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

Which is why I won't be putting any more money into this game. I'm fully aware of the EULA I agreed to. No where in the EULA does it prohibit me from voicing my displeasure over changes or for asking for explanations as to why changes were made. And no PGI does not owe me an explanation. But in the interest of customer relations, I'm positively certain it would behoove them to explain their position and why they made the changes.

More power to you, speak truth to power, let your purchasing choice speak volumes etc etc, it is all we can do from a personal position really.

Jaybles, on 26 April 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

What is the rational for taking purchased in game equipment out of player accounts and returning it as a made up currency different from that which was use to make the original purchases? Rationalize it for me? How does having those cbills affect game balance?

What am I their marketing department? I don't know the personal reasons they chose to go with.

I could hazard a few guesses like; they may have thought refunding c-bills would have a negative impact on future sales (people using refund c-bills to purchase new mechs and equipment), it seems the most logical reason, maybe they were worried people might just spend the refunded c-bills randomly thinking it was a booster, then complaining when they couldn't remaster their mechs.

If I am reading it right, the process of putting skillpoints into mechs at base (without historical xp), costs c-bills, so in a technical nature the c-bills are being refunded in a lot of cases, you just have to spend them on the skill tree specifically. There is logic to it, I see the reasons people are annoyed too, but I personally can understand it, I have even seen similar things in other games.

[Dogstar]

@Naduk Don't forget that you can use those GSP to unlock more than the minimum 91 nodes you can buy with HSP, there's definite benefit to having nodes unlocked as you can respec much easier - just as you could swap modules (well with a small xp tax anyways)

The GSP are not useless.

Although you do have an excessive amount of modules - but you have had the benefit of them

[WarHippy]

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

dogstar
we are not upset about losing credits
we are upset about having our choice taken away from us

Most of you seem rather upset about "losing credits" even you.

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

under the old system we chose to buy modules
we ran fewer mechs and kitted them out
while others bought more mechs/weapons and swapped modules between them

the system is being reset
and a new one put in place

True.

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

instead of being able to choose how to use this new system like everyone else
we are being forced exchange our effort for a currency that gives us litterly zero benefit

GSP has a value, and it does provide a benefit that has a subjective value to each individual. "Literally" zero benefit is a gross exaggeration.

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

if it was a mere need for depreciation then fine, reduce the value of old modules
but this is completely different, we are being given monopoly money in exchange for our trade in
turns out you cant use play money to buy a car of any kind

You can't use it to buy a car, but you can use it to tweak all of its settings.

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

i have 85 mastered mechs in stable
i have sold about 40 mastered mechs in the past
i get 91 slots worth on each mastered mech as well as the thousands of historical XP on each chassis i have

i will not need to spend anything to remaster my 85 mechs, this is because the people who did not buy many modules complained loudly at how unfair the previous system was and got their way

It was a good thing they complained because the previous system was far worse than this.

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

i get a return 45,000,000 cbills for modules i have bought recently
thats quite a lot
i also get 15,200 GSP (yay me)
but i dont need more skill points because my mechs are already catered for

Seems like a good thing to me.

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

so now i need to buy new mechs
at 91 slots per mech i would need to buy 167 new mechs (i can tell you now i dont have that many mech bays)
this 15,200 GSP did not come from nowhere, it came from my previous modules
for the record thats 192 modules worth 678,000,000 cbills

Those skill points have roughly the same value. Under the old system you bought modules to tweak some stats on your mech, and under the new system you buy skill points to tweak some stats on your mech. However, because they were generous with the skill points you have more than you need for your current stable, but because of that going forward you will not have to buy skill points for 167 new mechs. Skill points are just the new more dynamic modules.

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

so you can bet your *** that i will be selling all my modules before the refund if this stupid system still goes ahead
i will take a 50% tax over a 99% loss
because at least then i get to choose where my time and effort gets spent
instead of it being locked into a fake currency that i will never be able to use

Go for it if that is what you think is best. Personally, I think that would be a mistake.

[Naduk]

you think i am going to need 167 mechs worth of respec points ? (a full kit is 242 points)

no

i will spend the 91 points and thats it
on top of the free 91 points provided i have excessive HXP available for respec on majority of my mechs
i know what i want from my mechs, thats why they each have their own dedicated modules
i dont need to change them

if i require different tools, i get a different mech that is setup for the job

i lose out big time under this system

15200 points just sitting there locked in as skill points that i will never be able to use is WORTHLESS

@warhippy
how exactly do you expect me to acquire 167 new mechs to spend all those 15200 GSP ?
because my old mechs wont be able to use it

[Heffay]

Mole, on 26 April 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

Digital goods do not depreciate in value as they are not subject to wear and tear.

Good to know! Want to buy my copy of Wordperfect? It was originally priced at $199, but you can have it for $199. You know, because it doesn't depreciate in value, and isn't subject to wear and tear...

[Heffay]

Alan Davion, on 26 April 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

And I'm not being dramatic.

...lol

[JC Daxion]

I got an 8500 duo core, 9800 GTX and 4 gigs of ram.. I'd really like to get 400 bucks back for that..

any takers..?

Heffay, on 26 April 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

Good to know! Want to buy my copy of Wordperfect? It was originally priced at $199, but you can have it for $199. You know, because it doesn't depreciate in value, and isn't subject to wear and tear...

you should of picked up Coral 7 word perfect a month ago.. got it for 15 bucks!

[WarHippy]

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

you think i am going to need 167 mechs worth of respec points ? (a full kit is 242 points)

no

You probably won't need many respec points at all, and depending on the mech some may actually benefit from having more than 91 nodes unlocked.

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

i will spend the 91 points and thats it
on top of the free 91 points provided i have excessive HXP available for respec on majority of my mechs
i know what i want from my mechs, thats why they each have their own dedicated modules
i dont need to change them

if i require different tools, i get a different mech that is setup for the job

I will probably be the same way.

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

i lose out big time under this system

I just don't see it. You may not get to do everything exactly how you want, but you really are not losing out on anything.

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

15200 points just sitting there locked in as skill points that i will never be able to use is WORTHLESS

It is only worthless if you choose to make it worthless by never using it for new mechs and additional nodes beyond the first 91.

Naduk, on 26 April 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

@warhippy
how exactly do you expect me to acquire 167 new mechs to spend all those 15200 GSP ?
because my old mechs wont be able to use it

The same way you acquired your current stable? As you buy new mechs if you choose to buy new mechs you don't have to worry about buying skill points for them as you will have plenty readily available. Perhaps that isn't ideal for everyone, but for me at least that is fantastic because I never liked the concept of leveling mechs to begin with, and because future c-bill earnings can be spent on other things instead of buying skill points.

[WarHippy]

Heffay, on 26 April 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

Good to know! Want to buy my copy of Wordperfect? It was originally priced at $199, but you can have it for $199. You know, because it doesn't depreciate in value, and isn't subject to wear and tear...

Well if you have a copy of office that doesn't have ribbon nonsense you might have a deal.
While your point is valid it doesn't really work if he would just clarify by saying digital goods in a closed environment while still current do not depreciate in value as they are not subject to wear and tear.

JC Daxion, on 26 April 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

I got an 8500 duo core, 9800 GTX and 4 gigs of ram.. I'd really like to get 400 bucks back for that..

any takers..?

Your hardware isn't a digital good and thus loses value.

[TLBFestus]

It's not the players fault that PGI removed re-arm and re-fit from the game.

If they hadn't, they could have said "Hey...your mech/car is all old and rusty and beat up so naturally we aren't going to give you back full price on it".

Instead, after every match we have a shiny new mech/car to use.... so they need to compensate.


I say this in jest people, but it's at least as valid an argument as the OP made.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

He losing out. He is losing his investment on modules because he's being given something he can't realistically use in return.

Just give us the option to sell either the GSP after patch or the modules at full price before the patch. From what I can tell, no one wants to hold up the skill tree because of this, but there is enough discontent on the forums to conclude that not every one thinks this is a fair deal.

[Heffay]

Jaybles, on 26 April 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

or the modules at full price before the patch.

Why? Aside from the modules you do get back at full price due to the timing, the standard has always been 50% of their value. Why should they get something different this time? We are already getting back far more in value than we spent in the first place.

PGI is bending over backwards to ensure nobody loses out, and yet some people (let's just call them... "entitled gamers" for lack of a better term) insist that it's unfair to not get back even more.

[Kin3ticX]

I WANT MY CBILLS BACK!!!!! My mom came into my room to bring me a plate of chicken tendies and I literally screamed at her and hit the plate of tendies out of her hand. She started yelling and swearing at me and I slammed the door on her. I'm so distressed right now I don't know what to do. I didn't mean to do that to my mom but I'm literally in shock from PGI's decision. I feel like I'm going to explode. Why did we have to listen to all the Cheapskates shitposting on outreacharoundHPG? This can't be happening. I'm having a ******* breakdown. I don't want to believe Cheapskates could pull this off. I want a future to believe in. I don't have enough good boy points to get more MC from my parents for another two weeks and I have to mow the lawn and take out the trash. I cannot ******* deal with this right now. It wasn't supposed to be like this, I thought PGI said we would get Cbills ???? This is so ******!

[Kin3ticX]

Heffay, on 26 April 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

Why? Aside from the modules you do get back at full price due to the timing, the standard has always been 50% of their value. Why should they get something different this time? We are already getting back far more in value than we spent in the first place.

PGI is bending over backwards to ensure nobody loses out, and yet some people (let's just call them... "entitled gamers" for lack of a better term) insist that it's unfair to not get back even more.

Hey now you have to see both sides. Anyone with a few braincells lined up in a row knows that GSP doesnt buy XL engines or Battlemechs. Also, a player with 1 billion in modules either gets GSP or sells them and loses 500 million.

How many hours does it take the average player to earn 500 million cbills?

[Heffay]

Kin3ticX, on 26 April 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

How many hours does it take the average player to earn 500 million cbills?

****, I can earn 500M in less than 10 minutes. It isn't hard.

And I'm *definitely* average. Look at that Tier 3 rating!

[Kin3ticX]

Heffay, on 26 April 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

****, I can earn 500M in less than 10 minutes. It isn't hard.

And I'm *definitely* average. Look at that Tier 3 rating!

Does cbill progress = mastery progress?

Edit: Im not against the new change, but I am not not sure how nuking cbills into the ether will pan out as it percolates through the community. It boils down to the simple fact that people know that GSP aint no Cbills.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 26 April 2017 - 05:33 PM.