103 replies to this topic

[Fryepod]

I understand the OP's position, but at the same time I understand his nay sayers.

I mean, i recently dropped in a CW match with just 4 bushwackers after i got my pack. Just in this one instance, i think i racked up around 1800dmg on a pug match in 4 medium mechs.

Had i been allowed to drop in 4 100 ton beasts, i probably would of had like 600 dmg, because i just blow at that certain style. I know it's about learning and adapting but players do have some preference involved

[CDLord HHGD]

Amsro, on 27 April 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

Looking at your current leaderboard stats. I would say you die just a bit too early to get the score you are looking for.

Took me a bit of time to get that right.

Oh yeah, my experiments lately with not joining NASCAR have not gone well.

[RoadblockXL]

Yay, another, "You should do 500 damage!", "No, you should do 700 damage!", "No, you should do 1000 damage cause I average that in my kodiak!" epeen contest.

200 damage is the "minimum" amount of damage you should do in a match. It's been that way since closed beta.

It doesn't matter what weight class you're driving. You know why?

Because 200 damage is about what it takes to kill another mech. If you do 200 damage, then die, it's basically an equal trade between teams.

[Noodlesoup]

Cementi, on 27 April 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

Haha and people wonder why tier 1's are mostly hated as kill joy try hards. You people do it to yourself.

If this offends you it most likely applies to you. If it does not it does not.

I think I'll go que up a no armor locust or stock urbie now just to annoy these kinds of people.

the OP is most definitely *not* performing as a "Tier 1" lol.

Edited by Noodlesoup, 27 April 2017 - 01:39 PM.

[Zergling]

RoadblockXL, on 27 April 2017 - 01:14 PM, said:

Because 200 damage is about what it takes to kill another mech. If you do 200 damage, then die, it's basically an equal trade between teams.

The average damage per kill is a fair bit higher than 200 though.

[Shifty McSwift]

Zergling, on 27 April 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

The average damage per kill is a fair bit higher than 200 though.

Very circumstantial. You can kill some assaults with about 75 damage to the back CT. You can also mostly disable a mech with some 50-100 damage, potentially getting them killed with very little effort and risk on an allies behalf. At the same time you can put about 250 damage into a marauders side torso and have him live due to damage transfer rates.

There is no perfect threshold or one size fits all here, at best it is a very rough estimate.

[Zergling]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 April 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

There is no perfect threshold or one size fits all here, at best it is a very rough estimate.

Which is why I'm talking about averages. Many kills will be above or below that figure, but they average out to produce a single number.

[MaximusPayne]

jjm1, on 26 April 2017 - 11:11 PM, said:

Damage is a bad stat to gauge efficiency.

CapperDeluxe, on 27 April 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

Ya know, it is possible to have 250+ damage and still not be useful to the team.

Completely agree. I've had 1000+ and sub-200 damage games in mechs of all 4 weight classes. Build the mech to your style, then learn how to use it effectively. A good pilot in a bad build will always beat a bad pilot in a "meta" build.

[Druarc]

Plus if it's a new mech your mastering it will generally under perform. I'm looking at the stats for my roughnecks they be ick.

[Pr8Dator2]

JohnnyWayne, on 27 April 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

Damage is not everything, kills are not everything. But both combined they are a good indicator in this game. Because its not that much about teamplay except not let lights wipe out assaults, not standing in each others way and shooting the same targets. Oh and because there is no such thing as healing, meaning there is only a set amount of armor on the field.

In general I have to say: He is not wrong, at last from his perspective. Competetive mindset, plays to win or at least to have good battles. I share that aspect. I don't like people playing drunk or ******* around ruining matches for others. That is actually a problem - there is no competitive mode that relys on player skill for ranking to set apart these two types of players. 8v8 "competetive" won't fix this, too large groups — still leading to reduced relevancy of individual players skill.

The only thing I see to seperate these playertypes is a solaris mode, 1v1 2v2,3v3, 4v4 and FFA. But this is something PGI doesn't want - to seperate the playerbase. So we will have to put up with each others ****.

They could simply have solaris as a game mode choice

[Ted Wayz]

Tell me how this brilliant scheme sells product.

Thought so.

If anything it would deter people from buying new mechs.

A better way is player ranking by chassis in a leaderboard format. So what you can think of when you try?

[mouser42]

Kills and high damge scores are nice and all that but I'm shooting for one KMD per 150 damge done. To get two or three KMS and five or more components is my base objective pre match that means to me that my shots have counted for something. Getting some kills to go along with the goals I set for my self, well that just a happy bonus .

[Pr8Dator2]

Ted Wayz, on 27 April 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

Tell me how this brilliant scheme sells product.

Thought so.

If anything it would deter people from buying new mechs.

A better way is player ranking by chassis in a leaderboard format. So what you can think of when you try?

Yeah, actually people dig up my leadership board results so much that I am actually afraid to try anything new now on this account... I have my fun and experimentations on my other account instead T_T

Edited by Pr8Dator2, 27 April 2017 - 05:16 PM.

[Erronius]

JohnnyWayne, on 27 April 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

There is a reason people with most kills usually have also most damage. I tend to be the exception to that sometimes, especially in light mechs. Point is, you better have a lot of damage and no kills than neither of it.

I get runs of this as well in light mechs. It's probably a combination of backstabs, Kill Stealing Securing, and having better speed on maps like Polar.

On the flip side I'll have games that are relatively 'horrible', stats and score wise. For example, I'll have games where I'll run around a flank, get behind the enemy, and then find out that one team or another pushed with zero hesitation. Then either my team has half the enemy team dead already and there isn't much of a fight left (so low damage and few if any kills left to be had), OR the enemy pushed my teams face in and now they're wolf-packing after me. Another example is when I end up having half the team chasing me from one side of the map to the other and I end up spending most of the match trying to spread lazor damage and going "NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE". Sometimes I can train enemy mechs right into the teeth of my friendly Bravo/Charlie lances and watch them get vaporized...but again, low damage game.

[Shifty McSwift]

The goal is to win each individual match as a team, the goal is not supposed to be worrying about your personal K/D ratio and damage rates meeting an exact threshold of expectation, these two objectives can actually run counter to each other. Over valuing kills for example leads to people "stealing kills", or valuing a kill over game objectives and a win, don't get caught up in values that have barely anything to do with the style and point of the game.

[Vellron2005]

xe N on, on 27 April 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

That a wrong assumption. Damage is not equal in MWO. Spreading damage is bad, because it damage parts of a mech that are not vital. Otherwise LBX would be king - but the opposite is the case. It's even more worse if you cannot control your spread, like LRMs or SSRMs.

Dual Gauss doing 250 damage vs. SSRM doing 250 damage against one Atlas target.

Dual gaus potentially did 250 damage to the center torso. Atlas is dead.
SSRM did 50 damage per part. Atlas is slightly amused.

Every damage helps is wrong. A team with PPFLD damage but half the DPS vs. a team doing spread damage wins - or can't aim.

Hahahah, oh boy are you wrong..

First of all, you're assuming that every point of damage a PPFLD team would do would end up in the target's CT.. ever heard of torso twisting?

Also, you are completely disregarding terrain, situational modifiers, and pure skill..

A team that can deal damage without taking as much damage in return wins. This is not dependent on weapon or build types.

MWO is not chess, or a math problem.. stop treating it as such..

[Kotzi]

Actually you are all wrong. It takes 33 Damage to kill one enemy. So if you exceed that amount you cant aim and should not play this game. If you cant do that damage to one single mech your out too. Only if you have exactly that amount of damage and kill the enemy you are a true mechwarrior.

[xe N on]

Vellron2005, on 28 April 2017 - 02:49 AM, said:

Hahahah, oh boy are you wrong..

First of all, you're assuming that every point of damage a PPFLD team would do would end up in the target's CT.. ever heard of torso twisting?

The good thing on true PPFLD damage like e.g. Gauss or ERPPCs, you can't twist it. It's applied in one package and not over time. If you shoot your opponent with PPFLD damage while you can't clearly hit one torso, you simply doing it wrong - or shooting at suboptimal distance - or shooting at a running locust.

Quote

Also, you are completely disregarding terrain, situational modifiers, and pure skill.

Example:

Two skirmish matches done by Team A against Team B, same configuration.

First round Team A wins 12 to 11 after 10 mins with average 500 damage per player.
Second round Team A wins 12 to 11 after 8 mins with average 300 damage per player.

IMHO, in the second round Team A performed better. They won, killed in lesser time doing lesser damage thus meaning did lesser spread and aimed more precisely .

Nevertheless, the first round gets the Team A a higher score.

That's MWO.

Proposing high damage is always a indictor of skill would be like saying headshotting in counterstrike is bad, you should aim for the body to do more damage.

Imho, damage shouldn't be a rating factor in MWO at all.

In a real team FPS game anything that count's is victory, Nothing else.

Edited by xe N on, 28 April 2017 - 08:16 AM.

[Yellonet]

This thread makes me want to create some really stupid troll builds and pug away.

Edit: I wonder if using "bad" builds can be considered to go against the CoC...

Edited by Yellonet, 28 April 2017 - 08:36 AM.

[Lorcryst NySell]

Yellonet, on 28 April 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

Edit: I wonder if using "bad" builds can be considered to go against the CoC...

As far as I know, a bad build and trolling are not against the CoC as long as you at least try to participate ...

Not like the 3 assault pilots that dropped with me this morning in an Incursion match and disconnected as soon as the loading screen confirmed the mode ... spectating them (because I found, face first, a splat cat around a corner), they even had good builds, but not a word, AFK/disco even before touching the ground ...

Oh, and to stay on topic, I managed to do 285 damage in my 4xSSRM2s Griffin 3M in that game, and I still got a red arrow ;(