46 replies to this topic

[Shifty McSwift]

I downloaded the pts client to test out the tree (then deleted it as it somehow took up 33gb), and I had some fun testing out the possibilities available.

I came to the conclusion that a combination of the mobility, defensive, consumables and system (the one that gives the speed buff/heat dissipation etc) trees, seem to be the best usage when it comes to heavier/slower classes. The tree that grants speed buffs (system?) and the consumables tree in particular seems incredibly important for all.

I also like the "nerf" to radar dep in general too, it seems much more balanced to have it work at different potential levels like that, but with that said it makes seismic sensors all the stronger by comparison, though the new placement of these old modules seems much more balanced overall in the trees.

I would think the weapons buffs would go better on smaller, high damage/dps types, but those mobility and defensive trees are really hard to go by as an assault, and I am sure for some lights too, the main attraction for me that I couldn't access in the weapons tree was the heat related buffs, it seems there are lots of ways to reduce heat values now in general.

So what did you guys find through testing?

[Shifty McSwift]

I would definitely recommend that they set the 'respec' cost to 0 for at least the first week though, I was a little surprised with the respec system TBH, I figured it would just have a c-bill cost attached to un-assign differing amounts of skill points, with a full respec costing a million or so. The system as is really punishes you for a respec, which considering will probably be wanted with most loadout changes, seems a bad way to go about it.

[ScrapIron Prime]

I too liked the placement of the seismic and radar derp skills. You can get full seismic and 60 percent of the old Radar Dep with just 12 points.

I also like the way the weapons tree is shaped, with laser, missle, and ballistic clustered into their own areas. One tree for everything, but it doesnt soak all your points on useless powerups for weapons you cannot mount. And the gauss charge skills being all in a line right near the top means a quick and minimal investment for those weapons, leaving snipers more ponts to spend on other trees.

And the consumable tree can be ignored if you want, as a single point is enough to bring you back up to two slots, while a mere 4 can get you a second UAV. I havent looked at it closer than that, however.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 27 April 2017 - 06:35 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

ScrapIron Prime, on 27 April 2017 - 06:33 AM, said:

I too liked the placement of the seismic and radar derp skills. You can get full seismic and 60 percent of the old Radar Dep with just 12 points.

I also like the way the weapons tree is shaped, with laser, missle, and ballistic clustered into their own areas. One tree for everything, but it doesnt soak all your points on useless powerups for weapons you cannot mount. And the gauss charge skills being all in a line right near the top means a quick and minimal investment for those weapons, leaving snipers more ponts to spend on other trees.

And the consumable tree can be ignored if you want, as a single point is enough to bring you back up to two slots, while a mere 4 can get you a second UAV. I havent looked at it closer than that, however.

Interesting, I went straight into the skill tree so I didn't actually check the consumables available with no skill points spent, I went down the UAV side and into the coolshot buffs and after could equip 2x coolshot18 or 1x coolshot and 1xUAV.

Did you find the system tree to be as important as I did? (the one with speed boost, cool run, heat dissipation etc)

[Y E O N N E]

It irks me how, even with their higher percentages, the defensive tree is essentially useless to Lights. I can get three Armor Hardening nodes on a heavy and get a notable boost across all torso sections, but I need five or more for Lights. Combine with a general agility nerf through the engine decoupling, it seems a bit excessive.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 April 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

It irks me how, even with their higher percentages, the defensive tree is essentially useless to Lights. I can get three Armor Hardening nodes on a heavy and get a notable boost across all torso sections, but I need five or more for Lights. Combine with a general agility nerf through the engine decoupling, it seems a bit excessive.

Right, because they are percentage based, I forgot, good point, I guess that really does mean that the lighter mechs get much more efficient bonuses from the weapon tree overall there.

So I guess across the board the mobility and the system (speed) trees are clearly at the top of the priority list.

The structure perks I guess still work out decently for lights at least.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Speed boost, cool run, etc are critical, yes. From my testing (two Marauder 3R, one skilled one not), speed boost seems to have maneuverability effects as well, like the current system.

And id prioritise systems over armor. Structure and armor gets my leftover points, honestly. But perhaps my assumptions will change over time.

[Cy Mitchell]

I went after speed tweak on every Mech as habit. I think that if I really sat down and evaluated all the available upgrades, I might find that passing on the speed boost for more points in heat skills or survival skills might be a wiser decision. However, I am used to that extra bit of speed and I was afraid I would miss the experience.

I find that for the most part all 10 of the Mechs that I have Mastered on the PTS feel like they perform as well if not better than on LIVE overall. The exception is in their ability to shed and control heat. I have to be more careful with heat management but I am OK with that. I think heat needs to be more of a factor in the game.

My Stormcrow and my Kodiak with the 400XL seem to be a little more sluggish. The Stormcrow does not feel as bad as I remember it from the last PTS so I am relieved about that. I do not normally play Kodiaks at all so it is hard for me to really say how much it has been affected by the engine decoupling. It is still strong though.

[Amsro]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 April 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

It irks me how, even with their higher percentages, the defensive tree is essentially useless to Lights. I can get three Armor Hardening nodes on a heavy and get a notable boost across all torso sections, but I need five or more for Lights. Combine with a general agility nerf through the engine decoupling, it seems a bit excessive.

But on a side note, being hit in a light isn't good anyhow, best to go with mobility and weapon nodes.

So unless you are a slow light mech.. then good luck.

[Shifty McSwift]

Rampage, on 27 April 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

I went after speed tweak on every Mech as habit. I think that if I really sat down and evaluated all the available upgrades, I might find that passing on the speed boost for more points in heat skills or survival skills might be a wiser decision. However, I am used to that extra bit of speed and I was afraid I would miss the experience.

I find that for the most part all 10 of the Mechs that I have Mastered on the PTS feel like they perform as well if not better than on LIVE overall. The exception is in their ability to shed and control heat. I have to be more careful with heat management but I am OK with that. I think heat needs to be more of a factor in the game.

Yeah this is where I came to a bit of concern, the speed tweak tree also incorporates heat management, both of which are so massively important for all gameplay this tree kind of wildly outweighs the others, especially considering how little you need to put into it comparatively.

They might benefit from breaking up that tree and spreading it across the trees where they should apply, I.E. speed tweak in mobility, stability boost in defensive, etc etc.

[Y E O N N E]

Amsro, on 27 April 2017 - 07:05 AM, said:

But on a side note, being hit in a light isn't good anyhow, best to go with mobility and weapon nodes.

So unless you are a slow light mech.. then good luck.

Yeah, I was thinking of my Mist Lynx, mostly. I wanted to spec durability for thise arms, but I basically had to go all-in on that tree to get any value out of it for that chassis, and even that was piddly. Wasn't worth the tradeoff at all.

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 April 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

Right, because they are percentage based, I forgot, good point, I guess that really does mean that the lighter mechs get much more efficient bonuses from the weapon tree overall there.

So I guess across the board the mobility and the system (speed) trees are clearly at the top of the priority list.

The structure perks I guess still work out decently for lights at least.

There is less structure on a 'Mech to work with, so it ends up a wash at best.

Mobility is top priority, operations is second, sensors down to at least Radar Dep 1 is third, and firepower is last. I do take specific issue with how ridiculously hot running MedLas is on an IS Light. I get better heat efficiency out of four tons of cERML because I can bring more DHS than I do with six shorter-ranged standard MedLas, and the skills now exacerbate that issue since I can pare the duration on the former way down. Blegh.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 April 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

There is less structure on a 'Mech to work with, so it ends up a wash at best.

Mobility is top priority, operations is second, sensors down to at least Radar Dep 1 is third, and firepower is last. I do take specific issue with how ridiculously hot running MedLas is on an IS Light. I get better heat efficiency out of four tons of cERML because I can bring more DHS than I do with six shorter-ranged standard MedLas, and the skills now exacerbate that issue since I can pare the duration on the former way down. Blegh.

CERML is really no better off in comparison, the only reason I ever use it is to pair with CLPL for the synergy with the burn duration and ranges. Medium lasers at the moment are just meh in general I think.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

i dont PTS since i got an email in beta saying test the clan mechs, but you couldnt unless you preordered but im a d_ck )

im psyched to lower lbx spread tho.

my concern is more how the new skill tree might hurt the new player experience vs skill-treed players, maybe trial mechs should have the old quirks or some kind of boost.



ok, if i do pts, will it access my player and mech setups? will i have to move my pilot profiles and attribute xmls?if so , to where?

Edited by Gorantir, 28 April 2017 - 06:09 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Gorantir, on 27 April 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

my concern is more how the new skill tree might hurt the new player experience vs skill-treed players, maybe trial mechs should have the old quirks or some kind of boost.

Trial mechs should probably have set skill trees associated with them at least.

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 April 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

CERML is really no better off in comparison, the only reason I ever use it is to pair with CLPL for the synergy with the burn duration and ranges. Medium lasers at the moment are just meh in general I think.

It is most definitely way better in this case. I get 12x DHS (five PoorDubs) and 28 damage at 405 meters for 24 heat vs. 10x DHS (three PoorDubs) for 30 damage at 270 meters and...24 heat. The extra duration isn't that big a deal given the range advantage and safety it affords, while the other one is at-risk for Streaks, SRMs, and basically everything. If these were isERML at 4 heat each, I wouldn't have any quarrel.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 April 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

It is most definitely way better in this case. I get 12x DHS (five PoorDubs) and 28 damage at 405 meters for 24 heat vs. 10x DHS (three PoorDubs) for 30 damage at 270 meters and...24 heat. The extra duration isn't that big a deal given the range advantage and safety it affords, while the other one is at-risk for Streaks, SRMs, and basically everything. If these were isERML at 4 heat each, I wouldn't have any quarrel.

True, but it still leaves medium lasers overall in a pretty bad position, I think they would overall benefit from a range buff in general, the burn duration and the like is ok as is.

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 April 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

True, but it still leaves medium lasers overall in a pretty bad position, I think they would overall benefit from a range buff in general, the burn duration and the like is ok as is.

Mmm, I don't think lasers are that bad. The FLD is making them look bad, but they are still pretty damn effective. I don't have any major problems with any stock ranges, I just think that the IS lasers from medium on down run too hot for the ranges they have been given. There is no room for the ERSL and ERML to come in and be useful, either, unless the SL and ML come down, too, or the damage is jacked up on the new arrivals.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 April 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

Mmm, I don't think lasers are that bad. The FLD is making them look bad, but they are still pretty damn effective. I don't have any major problems with any stock ranges, I just think that the IS lasers from medium on down run too hot for the ranges they have been given. There is no room for the ERSL and ERML to come in and be useful, either, unless the SL and ML come down, too, or the damage is jacked up on the new arrivals.

Yeah that is understandable for sure, the benefits of medium pulse vs medium laser to me mostly work out in pulses favor which would be directly overcome by either pushing up the ML range or pushing down the ML heat, or both. The same kind of thing applies to lasers and pulse in general, and I would agree with the small lasers too, I think by the stage it gets to large lasers and er large lasers, the range in particular becomes a real distinction, at those lower levels it is just too small of a distinction to compare.

[B0oN]

Tested it, yep .
Some fun stuff, some odd stuff, some downright brutal stuff .

Interesting .

2 things though :
-Respecc´ing costs are too high (maybe set to 0 for 2 weeks to get used to the whole system, like an introductionary phase) .
-I´d love 5-10 more SP for lights (so there is a bit more room for some "more" defensive skillings too) .