53 replies to this topic

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

tl:dr The Skill Tree is OP. PGI breaking the game.

Don't get me wrong, I love feeling OP as much as the other guy. I finally got around to being able to spend time with the skill tree and all I can say is, after spending 84/91 nodes, I have been able to make my, so far barely quirked, Misery feel OP. It is now a laser boat, with,

10% extra armor,
8% extra structure,
7.5% Range,
-15% BEAM DURATION,
-5% Heat,
-4.5% cooldown,
4.5% Speed Tweaked (doing 60kmph+),
-70% Screen Shake (LOL),
60% Radar Dep,
+100 Seismic (I assume this is in meters),
2 Consumable Slots,
50% coolshot efficiency, and
a bunch of other quirks.

I know the Misery on the live servers isn't OP, nor is it terribly underpowered. The choice of a Battlemaster vs. a Misery is purely dependent on the 2C being buffed right now.

All I am saying is, people like me, will min/max the **** out of the skill tree even though it is a web, and then people will cry about how X mech/faction is OP. However, PGI will have a hard time balancing without either,

A) Negative Quirks, (which will bring back TTK to where it is now)
B ) Power Creep (which will bring back TTK to where it is now), or
C) Tweaking individual mech's trees (which will probably make those mechs unused)

I honestly don't know how to improve the current iteration of the skill tree. I STILL HAVE 7 NODES UNUSED and my Misery feels OP to me.

On another note, I also don't understand how this skill tree will discourage boating. I just made three generic skill trees, screenshotted them, and saved them to google drive titled,

"Pure Ballistics"
"Pure Lasers"
"Pure Missiles".

For min/maxing purposes, I'll probably boat more than I will mix weapons, and the fact that I can even carry backup weapons while I boat (Read TBR SRM 6x4 with 4xSPL as backup) and still have those backup weapons have the cooldown, heat, and range bonuses means that I will most definitely be maxing out my mechs for boating with some backup weapons.

I won't get started on the refunding on this thread because I have made my thoughts known elsewhere, and I want to focus on the balance of the skill tree as a whole, but let me just say that I have more GSP/HXP/GXP than I know what to do with.

The Skill Tree will break the game.

It will remove any semblance of balance that currently exists between clans/IS.

It will also more than likely increase the gap between skilled/veteran and new/low-tier players, because while I will min/max my mechs, that guy that started three months ago and is still figuring out all of PGI's convoluted heat/speed/twist/duration/velocity/[insert other mechanic(s)] mechanics will be completely confused and probably get rolled not only because of their sub-optimal builds, but now also their sub-optimal skill trees.

I literally don't know what to say at this point except that the skill tree seems to fail by every measure to balance the game and allow players to make meaningful choices (I HAVE 7 SKILL NODES LEFT AFTER BOATING LASERS ON MY MISERY - Now imagine other laser vomit)

Now I will proceed to min/max my Clan Mechs.

LAWL






EDIT:

I don't know how to add imgur images into this forum soooo,

Weapons: http://imgur.com/TQVCdkG

Armor: http://imgur.com/Bk7kjua

Agility: http://imgur.com/K3iaFpC

Jump: http://imgur.com/nbKpiV5

Operations: http://imgur.com/PVn3UDf

Sensor: http://imgur.com/taIhYL5

Misc: http://imgur.com/GLBRIK1



The Build on Smurfy
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b999a20a3740e46







tl:dr The Skill Tree is OP. PGI breaking the game.

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 27 April 2017 - 10:38 AM.

[razenWing]

There is no way you fit so many high tier skills at max value with just 91 nodes.

How you do it? Show us your exact path.

[Y E O N N E]

His values aren't that high; a lot if that he had to get just to obtain 15% duration reduction. He didn't even complete his speed tweak and he skipped the agility where he could. That Misery is Light-fodder.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 April 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

His values aren't that high; a lot if that he had to get just to obtain 15% duration reduction. He didn't even complete his speed tweak and he skipped the agility where he could. That Misery is Light-fodder.

Skipped mobility entirely on an assault, which in practice should be quite noticeable.

Weapon perks look nice, but taking less damage and survive-ability in general I think pay off in many cases so much more than extra damage/DPS potentials, considering how high they are naturally.

[Clownwarlord]

You (OP) make me want to pilot a light mech

Imagine a light mech sinking all its nodes into agility and survivability. The original over-powered spider boogy monster will come back to haunt your assaults.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

razenWing, on 27 April 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

There is no way you fit so many high tier skills at max value with just 91 nodes.

How you do it? Show us your exact path.

I edited for you.

I am not talking solo, but imagine 12 of them dropped in CW against you. 12 min/maxed Miseries or [insert other mech here]

Also, max speed tweak at low levels of speed is unnecessary. For a light or a medium I understand, but the difference between 4.5% speed tweak and 7.5% speed tweak on a Stalker is 1.773 kmph.

Also also, things like max radar dep is completely unnecessary if you know how to get into cover.

Also, also, also, I still have 7 nodes left over to invest in things I think I am lacking.

My Misery feels more maneuverable than before because it didn't used to have ANY quirks. I am sure the my other non-quirked mechs will feel like that too (I AM TALKING ABOUT CLAN MECHS HERE). No clan mech hate from me because my unit plays more clan than IS, but we come IS quite often too, so I'd like it if the game was actually not broken?

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 27 April 2017 - 10:11 AM.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

Try a Marauder IIC with full mobility/ operations/ partial radar derp/seismic/ and full energy tree.

Because a 73 point laser alpha clearly needs -15% beam duration stacked with -heat gen quirks.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

Jaybles, on 27 April 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

Try a Marauder IIC with full mobility/ operations/ partial radar derp/seismic/ and full energy tree.

Because a 73 point laser alpha clearly needs -15% beam duration stacked with -heat gen quirks.

Oh nice good call! I will build that next while I am here in the PTS...LAWL



I just want people to realize that the Misery had NO QUIRKS except -10% Ballistic Velocity (which it keeps) AND -5% Laser duration (WHICH IS ALSO KEEPS FOR A GRAND TOTAL OF -20% ERLL duration), and the rest of the quirks i mentioned above. The Misery does NOT feel underpowered right now on the live server. I play it quite often. This is one example. Go make your own mechs.

If you feel that the game currently is at least SOMEWHAT balanced, wait till after the skill tree.

It's not a matter of Clan vs. IS. It is a matter of hardpoints, skill tree, and quirk min/maxing.

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 27 April 2017 - 10:18 AM.

[El Bandito]

Jaybles, on 27 April 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

Try a Marauder IIC with full mobility/ operations/ partial radar derp/seismic/ and full energy tree.

Because a 73 point laser alpha clearly needs -15% beam duration stacked with -heat gen quirks.

Small correction, Clan mechs get -10% beam duration at most from skill tree. Not big difference but it is there.

[Monkey Lover]

El Bandito, on 27 April 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Small correction, Clan mechs get -10% beam duration at most from skill tree. Not big difference but it is there.

Even at 10% this brings the cerl to about the is ERL. So with any luck the crying will stop

[FupDup]

Telemachus Rheade, on 27 April 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

8% extra structure

This only amounts to +4-5 extra structure on your CT, and less everywhere else.

Telemachus Rheade, on 27 April 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

-4.5% cooldown,

That quirk is completely useless.

Telemachus Rheade, on 27 April 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

4.5% Speed Tweaked (doing 60kmph+)

The Stalker is always a pretty slow mech. You've only made it slightly less slow.

Telemachus Rheade, on 27 April 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

-70% Screen Shake (LOL)

This quirk is pretty pointless in any quantity.

Telemachus Rheade, on 27 April 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

2 Consumable Slots,
50% coolshot efficiency, and

Enjoy blowing all of your C-Bill income on packing a ton of consumables.


The moral of the story is that a long list of quirks doesn't tell the whole story. The type of quirk in question and the magnitude of that quirk are what matter. Not all quirks are created equally, e.g. 10% beam duration is superior to 10% structure.

Edited by FupDup, 27 April 2017 - 10:56 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

FupDup, on 27 April 2017 - 10:56 AM, said:

10% beam duration is superior to 10% structure.

If you are packing a laser

Also that 10% duration decrease will mean very little when you are only your last legs, whereas extra structure might keep you alive, it is all relative I guess.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

El Bandito, on 27 April 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Small correction, Clan mechs get -10% beam duration at most from skill tree. Not big difference but it is there.

My mistake, Sadly I'm slogging through work and not the PTS at the moment.

[Clownwarlord]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 April 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

If you are packing a laser

Also that 10% duration decrease will mean very little when you are only your last legs, whereas extra structure might keep you alive, it is all relative I guess.

See on a 5 ERLL Grasshopper I would go with the duration decrease because long range mech which means if I can shoot more I prefer it, but on a brawler like a griffon 2N with 4 SRMs and flamers yeah need the structure.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Shifty McSwift, on 27 April 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

If you are packing a laser

Also that 10% duration decrease will mean very little when you are only your last legs, whereas extra structure might keep you alive, it is all relative I guess.

And if you're maximizing an existing quirk. The Hunchback 4P has -10% duration already, tacking this on becomes quite meaningful when your armament is 6 Medium Lasers.

[VanillaG]

The biggest thing that the skill tree does is to flatten the bell curve between good and bad builds for a specific chassis. In the current system every mech got the same flat bonuses and then were limited to small number of modules that were must have. Is there a real perceived difference between -10% duration vs -15% duration? You talking about small fractions of a second difference.

There will be some general rules around builds, but the difference between good and bad will be a gentle slope not a steep cliff.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

Someone please tell me how the following stats for the following EBJ is a good idea?

The Build

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2a4b6066dc6ed4

The Stats in a picture

http://imgur.com/WA2Gpb6

I HAVE TWO COOLSHOTS (+50%) AND AN UAV


Tell me how people like me who will min/max will not roflstomp moar on those people that are new, use suboptimal builds, and/or suboptimal skill trees now...

NOW imagine 12 of those mechs on the opposing side during a CW match...Tell me I didn't just make you cry a little?

I run 3 of those builds when I play CW on the clan side and I felt dirty blowing off torsos before. Now I feel dirtier...

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 27 April 2017 - 11:18 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Telemachus Rheade, on 27 April 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

Someone please tell me how the following stats for the following EBJ is a good idea?

The Build

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2a4b6066dc6ed4

The Stats in a picture

http://imgur.com/WA2Gpb6

I HAVE TWO COOLSHOTS (+50%) AND AN UAV


Tell me how people like me who will min/max will not roflstomp moar on those people that are new, use suboptimal builds, and/or suboptimal skill trees now...

NOW imagine 12 of those mechs on the opposing side during a CW match...Tell me I didn't just make you cry a little?

I run 3 of those builds when I play CW on the clan side and I felt dirty blowing off torsos before. Now I feel dirtier...

That looks exceedingly average. =)

Though i will note that if you remove two ERML and add 2 DHS instead, you'd have less reliance on your coolshots as a way to keep yourself from blowing up...

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

ScrapIron Prime, on 27 April 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

That looks exceedingly average. =)

Though i will note that if you remove two ERML and add 2 DHS instead, you'd have less reliance on your coolshots as a way to keep yourself from blowing up...

The point of the build is high alpha, low exposure time. So for the least amount of exposure to fire, you go ahead and dish out the most damage. It's not meant to fire consistently but to destroy a torso.



I don't understand what you mean by "average". That build is insane BEFORE quirks. Now I have -10% duration, which means that I have to expose myself 10% less to enemy fire, while at the same time gaining 13.6% more armor. So overally, I am now more survivable. The cool shots mean I can alpha 4 times before shutting down...

I am not the best shot but I am pretty decent at keeping damage on a component. Tell me what component has 272 armor/structure...

I love playing my clan mechs, and I laugh at people who yell "clan OP", but LOL I will really be OP.

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 27 April 2017 - 11:25 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Telemachus Rheade, on 27 April 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

The point of the build is high alpha, low exposure time. So for the least amount of exposure to fire, you go ahead and dish out the most damage. It's not meant to fire consistently but to destroy a torso.

Right, and its good at it too. I like to call those kinds of mechs "KDR 1.0 Builds". Because you're going to wreck someone's day, shut down, and have your head blown off by a second enemy. And if you got Caustic or Terra Mordor, you might not even get the "wreck someone's day" part.