44 replies to this topic

[Fuerchtenichts]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

See the faction affiliation next to my name?

Of course, you are a MERC.

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

In terms of TT stats and the *likely* implementation, ATMs should be excellent. Which is great - I'd rather Clan pugs take them (in concept) than LRMs.

And lore wise MERCs should only be allowed to play IS. We already have lots of techn. adjustments in the game. Without them this game would really not be balanced at all. It will take some time but sooner or later we will reach the level of balance we have at the moment again.

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

Because Clan tech is already flat out superior to IS tech overall (largely thanks to CXL, which LFE does nothing about) and if RACs are amazing it'll even that up.

Yep, CLAN and IS tech require different tactics to make them both work efficiently. If you want to Play IS mechs like CLAN mechs you are doomed (and vice versa)

Edited by Fuerchtenichts, 28 April 2017 - 01:32 PM.

[BigScwerl]

Lovas, on 28 April 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

I completely agree Mischief. It makes me laugh when folks like the op scream "they are touching my stuff" and fail to look at what is being done to everything.

Then he has the gaul to say he was trying to say he meant everybody lol.

Don't be a troll, it doesn't suit you. I also can't help but notice you're sporting a CSJ Merc Affiliation.

I think the word you were looking for there was "Gall" but its ok, I guess I'm also OP because I know how to use vocabulary.

The finer point was, Why are they nerfing clan more if they are nerfing everything and essentially creating an entirely new game balance system? Why not start on an equal playing field if they are just about to introduce the same tech tree to IS and Clan?

Edited by BigScwerl, 28 April 2017 - 01:41 PM.

[Lupis Volk]

Any Claner worth their bloodname should be happy with the new tech. Now, NOW we get a fight that is worthy. No more one sided slaughters only briefly punctuated by a match or two where the IS realise their defensive quirks are god tier and use them.

Now we see if Clans are truly OP. I revel at the challenge.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 28 April 2017 - 01:27 PM.

[BigScwerl]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

ATM, which Clans get, is the best performer (unless PGI does something nutty) of all the new weapons tech.

Nonsense - Its a guided missile system in a game where all guided missile systems are garbage. ATM will be the same.

[Willard Phule]

MischiefSC, on 28 April 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

Because Clan tech is already flat out superior to IS tech overall (largely thanks to CXL, which LFE does nothing about) and if RACs are amazing it'll even that up.

Well, in a PGI balance sense. Which is to say not balanced, but more broken stuff that makes everything sorta broken in similar ways and so kinda sorta balanced in a not really sense.

Which is testimony to PGI's ability to "balance" things properly. Ultimately, Clan weaponry is supposed to be lighter, longer ranged and hotter. In general. Burn time, burst fire ACs, spazz fire LRMs with a nerf to close range damage....you name it. If you want to change DPS, change the recharge/reload time. That, in itself, is something I've never really seen them mess with.

Longer burn time for full damage makes sense IF you allow the weapon to be "turned off" when you release the trigger....thus giving more direct control of heat management and truly allowing a pilot's skill to be utilized. Which, oddly enough, is supposed to be what the Clan breeding program is supposed to produce, right?

Lovas, on 28 April 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

We all have in our head what RACS are like, but what is PGI's vision??

PGI and RACS...call me cynical but with PGI's game design technique I picture them only having them fire at the same rate of current UAC's with a warm up and cool down timer - "see guys! We only have to press the button once now! We gave you uber weapon!"

Has me wondering, too, considering that the Clan UAC2 and UAC5 are burst fire with rotating barrels already. One would assume the effect will be similar to what you saw in MW4, though. Which would be awesome, but I'll miss it until they release it for Clans. I don't ride that IS crap.

[Khalcruth]

I love how people seem to think "it's OK to screw over IS now with the skill tree, because in July they'll get new tech".

A) So great, three months where the IS has to just bend over and take it. That's fair.
B) Yeah, sure, like the new tech is actually going come in July. Seriously, you think they can actually deliver then? Have you been paying attention to the company, since, well, forever? It'll be a miracle if happens before December.
C) What's the guarantee the new tech is actually going to be any good? Again, this is PGI we're talking about here.

[MischiefSC]

Fuerchtenichts, on 28 April 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Of course, you are a MERC.



And lore wise MERCs should only be allowed to play IS. We already have lots of techn. adjustments in the game. Without them this game would really not be balanced at all. It will take some time but sooner or later we will reach the level of balance we have at the moment again.



Yep, CLAN and IS tech require different tactics to make them both work efficiently. If you want to Play IS mechs like CLAN mechs you are doomed (and vice versa)

We've already gotten feedback on what ATMs will be like. A min range of about 60m, damage ramp up from 1-3 and then from 3-1 out to 810m. Lower, flatter trajectory, designed more for direct fire. Hopefully with faster speed.

A Clan RAC would be like a Clan Gauss - just a flat out superior version of the same thing. That's the sort of thing making problems with balance, not fixing it.

[Lovas]

BigScwerl, on 28 April 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

Don't be a troll, it doesn't suit you. I also can't help but notice you're sporting a CSJ Merc Affiliation.

My apologies, been traveling from airport to airport all day - finally home with a nice glass of whisky relaxing on my back deck ahhhhhhhh.

Yes I am sporting a CSJ tag this week - I'm a merc. Since I've been a merc I am almost a 50-50 split between the techs - I like to pilot both clan and IS mechs. Some can argue that mercs have a better working knowledge of the balance between the techs; at least in a 12 v 12 team fight.

I did find it funny you saying that you were trying to speak about the nerfs to "both sides" yet your title and what you were saying was very one sided. Again, sorry for being rude.

BigScwerl, on 28 April 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

The finer point was, Why are they nerfing clan more if they are nerfing everything and essentially creating an entirely new game balance system? Why not start on an equal playing field if they are just about to introduce the same tech tree to IS and Clan?

An even finer point is the are not nerfing clans more. It is quite easy to argue that IS is getting nerfed way more....but with all these changes it is really hard to tell at this point. The only thing we can look at right now is the PTS - who knows (and I include PGI in this statement) what in the hell the new tech is going to do to this game.

Edited by Lovas, 28 April 2017 - 04:09 PM.

[Nightmare1]

BigScwerl, on 28 April 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

@ TL DR - Why Comment if you haven't taken the time to be a part of the conversation? Why do you expect others to read your posts if you don't read theirs? I hope you're not inferring that this is a Rage Post. Because it certainly was not intended to be such.

I am hoping that everyone recognizes how massive a change this will be, I like Marquis' "Hand Grenade" metaphor. That's what it feels like. Kinda like PGI saying: "We're having trouble keeping the wheels on this car, I guess its time to design a new toaster"

I'm not opposed to new tech or timeline advances, but we need to recognize that with PGI's history of balance issues, there is no way this will help from the balance standpoint.

I actually did read the conversation up to my post, and I replied to the OP based on my interpretation of it. It does come off as a kind of rage post, in my opinion, given its exasperated tone. It's definitely emotional.

I added TL,DR to my post because experience has taught me that most of the forumites on this site don't actually read the full posts like I do, and instead, jump straight to their own conclusions.

As for this change, yes, it's going to be big, but it's not unprecedented. GR:P completely revamped its entire armor and buffs structure. STO has revamped its Skill Tree twice. The community has, for years now, begged for a Skill Tree similar to this.Why does it surprise everyone "like a hand grenade?"

The only ones that are surprised are the people who recently joined, or the ones who don't pay any attention to their surroundings. What is more surprising to me, is that PGI actually listened to our feedback with the last PTS, and made a real attempt to address our concerns. It's far from perfect, but it is much better. Now we just need to get PGI to fix the nodes a bit better, and we'll be set.

Also, I never did advocate that this was going to solve the issue of balancing. I simply pointed out that it was better than PGI's previous attempts at selective sledgehammering. At least in this case, with Global nerfs, the problems will remain somewhat proportional between weapons.

The real disparity will appear with the Mech Quirks that are retained, as well as Clan Mech performance. Since many Clan Mechs have few to no quirks going into the Skill Tree redesign, they aren't really going to be affected by the Quirk nerfs. However, they now can be buffed by the Skill Tree. I see this as actually buffing the Clan Mechs themselves while nerfing IS Mechs.

[justcallme A S H]

BigScwerl, on 28 April 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

I thought that ALL mechs were losing ALL Quirks?

You have clearly not logged into the PTS.

All mechs are not losing all quirks.

Lots of quirks are staying. Civ War tech will not change the balance because:

1. LFE makes no real dif
2. New IS weapons will be hotter/heavier, making a lot redundant before they drop IMO
3. As per the PTS Clans are acquiring quirks/buffs to they never had before.

Get on the PTS and actually look at it.

Lovas, on 28 April 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

Well, you fooled me with the title of this thread and only writing about one side.

Yep reality is the title is not in any way representative of whats happening in the actual game.

[ccrider]

I only care that my Atlas D retained its armor quirks and I can buff them MOAR. The rest is window dressing.




Well, except for the annihilated which I'll load with rac 5s and use to clear cut every Damn tree on emerald taiga.




What was this thread about, again? I got distracted.

[Nightmare1]

I don't have the Atlas D, but my other Atlases lost their armor quirks in favor of Structural quirks.

[justcallme A S H]

Atlas D - under S/T - is like the only mech getting a buff.

It's gonna have the armour / structure of 3 hvy clan mechs...

[naterist]

a) clans are gaining quirks

maybe with things brought down to a less inflated level, some of the weird things like ghost heat and the super high heat on clans will be removed or adjusted downward. theyll nerf the nerfs, so to speak.

[TWIAFU]

BigScwerl, on 28 April 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Also, Why doesn't clan get more tech also?

Didn't your test tube get injected with the RNA for reading or math?

[Alreech]

The only solution to this problem:

Give Clans and IS the same weapons and tech. PGI doesn't give a dam on the lore anyway, so why stick with the dumb hight-tech/low-tech stuff that even didn't work in tabeltop ?

[Sixpack]

Lupis Volk, on 28 April 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

Any Claner worth their bloodname should be happy with the new tech. Now, NOW we get a fight that is worthy. No more one sided slaughters only briefly punctuated by a match or two where the IS realise their defensive quirks are god tier and use them.

Now we see if Clans are truly OP. I revel at the challenge.

You are just lying to yourself here, the one sided slaughters will continue both ways.

[Nightmare1]

TWIAFU, on 29 April 2017 - 03:49 AM, said:

Didn't your test tube get injected with the RNA for reading or math?

ROFL

[Xannatharr]

BigScwerl, on 28 April 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

Nonsense - Its a guided missile system in a game where all guided missile systems are garbage. ATM will be the same.

I think it might be a little early to say that with such certainty.

Xann

[BigScwerl]

justcallme A S H, on 28 April 2017 - 04:45 PM, said:

You have clearly not logged into the PTS.

I read the PTS post. The last time I tried the PTS it took a long time do DL, then crashed a lot, then I couldn't get a lobby because nobody wanted to play it anymore at that point. I suppose I could try it again, but the last skill PTS was literally a waste of about 8 hours of life.