145 replies to this topic

[Belacose]

A new player already getting so upset with the devs for not being sensitive enough? Maybe it's already time to move on too? Is the stress really worth it when there's so many other perfect games out there developed by outspoken player bases?

[Ruar]

Belacose, on 29 April 2017 - 10:14 PM, said:

A new player already getting so upset with the devs for not being sensitive enough? Maybe it's already time to move on too? Is the stress really worth it when there's so many other perfect games out there developed by outspoken player bases?

Not upset, just trying to see if I'm missing something in my reasoning.

And it's 9 to 1 players who agree with me verse players who disagree so far in this thread. So I'm good.

[Belacose]

Ruar, on 29 April 2017 - 10:18 PM, said:

Not upset, just trying to see if I'm missing something in my reasoning.

And it's 9 to 1 players who agree with me verse players who disagree so far in this thread. So I'm good.

Upset people tend to voice their opinions ten times as much.

[G4LV4TR0N]

They so evil they gave people 200 MC's free for their shitposting few days ago.

[Y E O N N E]

Belacose, on 29 April 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:

I have have several 'Seismic Sensors'. Several 'Radar Deprivations'. Not getting full return on that is fair in your opinion?

I have several, too. I don't even think Seismic should be in the game at all, for starters, and the new system was supposed to be a clean break from the old one so your expectations for refunds are misplaced. Everybody screaming and yelling about 'Mech Mastery as if that actually meant anything when the whole schtick is that it's a never-ending tinker-fest.

Belacose, on 29 April 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

By no means could I get every node I wanted. Bet my builds are a good bit different than yours.

Your builds are also probably a good bit worse than mine, then. Also, want has nothing to do with it, it's all about need driven by simple arithmetic. Other guy has combination A, you chose combination B. B is not as potent as A. You lose, the end.

[Belacose]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 April 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

Your builds are also probably a good bit worse than mine, then. Also, want has nothing to do with it, it's all about need driven by simple arithmetic. Other guy has combination A, you chose combination B. B is not as potent as A. You lose, the end.

Maybe my builds are better than yours.

Took so much more thought and math to choose two cooldown modules, right?

Edited by Belacose, 29 April 2017 - 10:38 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Belacose, on 29 April 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

Maybe my builds are better than yours.

Took so much more thought and math to choose two cooldown modules, right?

You only have to figure out the optimal path once. Congratulations, you have created a tougher gate than the old system with a well that is just as shallow.

[Belacose]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 April 2017 - 10:40 PM, said:

You only have to figure out the optimal path once. Congratulations, you have created a tougher gate than the old system with a well that is just as shallow.

Nope. Different mechs do better with different skill nodes.

On my Dual Gauss mechs I skipped heat control node which allowed other choices, to give just one example.

In fact my skill trees looked a good bit different over various mechs.

Maybe you're just dumbing down too much?

[Insanity09]

Any time a provider insults their customer base, there is a problem. And it typically isn't on the customer side (exceptions being where the customer was being a tool).
Now, admittedly, many of the posters on these forums could use a little valium, and many really need to work on communicating why they dislike something, including details, numbers where available, etc., instead of just complaining.
Others, honestly, seem to be doing a good job of being a conscientious and concerned player, with well thought out and worded posts.
Still though, to berate the customer base as a whole, or even a big piece of it? No. Bad dog, no biscuit.

I admit that I am a module swapper. I am for the simple reason that I have not been playing long enough to amass vast amounts of cbills. I'm still trying to grow my mech stable. (My priorities were: get a few mechs (enough to try each of the weight classes with a variant or two), get a few crucial modules (once I had the gxp, that took a bit), get enough mechs mastered and with enough tonnage to start scouting, then invading, get enough modules to provide at least one for each mech in an invasion deck (I actually paused invading while I worked on that, but I found a tolerant crowd to play with), grow stable, start buying more modules to make swapping less necessary, <repeat last two as desired>) I'm at ~50 mechs. Note that I tend get more mechs first, and only tend to get more modules when I don't have my eye on any new mechs.
Does that make me a cheapskate? I think not. <poof>
I have spent real dollars on the game (my standard policy for any F2P is to treat it as a subscription game, if I keep playing that long enough it earns the ~$15/month budget, max), but I am by no means wealthy enough in real life to buy mc just to get cbills so I can module up.

I have seen numerous games where the player base was mostly ignored, but only a few where attention was actually paid.

In one of those few, it was awesome and the game improved markedly as a result.
The rabid forum posters were told point-blank that vitriol and unsubstantiated claims wouldn't even be read.
Carefully and politely worded concerns, backed up with as much data as the players could provide would be investigated with dev data mining (they really were!) and adjustments/patches made as warranted (again, they really did!). The devs actually admitted when they goofed, and sometimes told the players, nope, you're not seeing it right, and here's why. It was a good and respectful two-way communication. Reasons and scheduling were open subjects. The game, fyi, was CoH/V.

The games where the devs ignore the players (or insult them?) seem to get worse over time, rather than better, in my experience. Eventually such games, for me, become intolerable and I stop playing (and if it is a F2P game, I typically stop paying for stuff a bit before that).
I admit that MWO is edging in that direction now, but I'm sticking with it until the dust settles from all these upcoming adjustments. (After that, it might be hot potato time.)

[FireStoat]

I think this game's Dev team are in a really strange place. MWO doesn't have the popularity, player base, or drive for advertisement that put it in a good spot. Oddly enough, the company itself relies totally on fan video creation for advertisement. Compared to other companies and their games... It's just an odd decision to make.

This means word of mouth and promotion of the game is in the hands of the fans. So they try to update the game with this tree and they know ahead of time that no matter what they do, there is no pleasing everyone. It's just the nature of change. So, I think, possibly, they base their elements of change towards the internal numbers of profit and account trends that the rest of us aren't able to see. Because it's their accounting data, in house.

So they have this mandate to mold the game into what they think their future needs will be, while kind of being oblivious to how both established and newer players feel... And are then held accountable by their fan base that makes videos or has competitive teams, or both.

Maybe they're feeling frustrated by the situation, and more than likely they're tired of the negativity from the fans. I don't have a solution, and I don't know if it's fair to say 'well, the game makers created the situation and where the game stands today." All I can do is compare this game to League of Legends and similar FTP games with their updates and stated motivations.

The core issue I keep coming back to is that the Skill Tree update had several clearly stated intended goals it was to accomplish. And like half of them were completely set to the side, as if they were lip-service comments only. I think I'm done trying to make sense of it all.

[Y E O N N E]

Belacose, on 29 April 2017 - 10:45 PM, said:

Nope. Different mechs do better with different skill nodes.

On my Dual Gauss mechs I skipped heat control node which allowed other choices, to give just one example.

In fact my skill trees looked a good bit different over various mechs.

Maybe you're just dumbing down too much?

Or you aren't dumbing it down enough. That's about as much of a deviation as choosing to use your Master slot for a weapon module or a 'Mech module.

There are also no 'Mechs ruling the roost that only use Dual Gauss.

If you aren't maxing out your Anchor Turn, Hard Brake, and Kinetic Burst, you are at a major disadvantage. If you aren't going down to at least 60% Radar Deprivation and +100 Seismic, you are also at a major disadvantage. Even an NTG featuring Dual Gauss with just one ERPPC is going to want the Heat Containment and Cool Run to keep the DPS up when pushes happen. Most builds are going to spec into CoolShot, too, for the same reason.

That leaves you with enough points to pick something you need for your guns and some notable durability, and that's the only major choice to be made: more durability or more firepower, and that's an easy choice to make.

[Belacose]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 April 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

Or you aren't dumbing it down enough. That's about as much of a deviation as choosing to use your Master slot for a weapon module or a 'Mech module.

There are also no 'Mechs ruling the roost that only use Dual Gauss.

If you aren't maxing out your Anchor Turn, Hard Brake, and Kinetic Burst, you are at a major disadvantage. If you aren't going down to at least 60% Radar Deprivation and +100 Seismic, you are also at a major disadvantage. Even an NTG featuring Dual Gauss with just one ERPPC is going to want the Heat Containment and Cool Run to keep the DPS up when pushes happen. Most builds are going to spec into CoolShot, too, for the same reason.

That leaves you with enough points to pick something you need for your guns and some notable durability, and that's the only major choice to be made: more durability or more firepower, and that's an easy choice to make.

Wow you just know everything about me! Your mind reading skills, second guessing and assumptions are spot on. Please allow me to bow down to you now.

Btw, "for example" means 'for example'.

If a mech of mine already has 1.6 heat management on live I do NOT need all, nor most, heat control nodes.

Maybe you have trouble overheating all the the time regardless of weapon systems? Then by all means spec everyone of your mechs exactly the same. Only have to do your math once, right? Copy all of Gman's builds as well if you can't think for yourself.

Edited by Belacose, 29 April 2017 - 11:09 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Belacose, on 29 April 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:

Wow you just know everything about me! Your mind reading skills, second guessing and assumptions are spot on. Please allow me to bow down to you now.

You don't factor into it at all, it's all about the game itself.

Quote

Btw, "for example" means 'for example'.

Hooray for meaningless fringe case as an example?

Quote

If a mech of mine already has 1.6 heat management on live I do NOT need all, nor most, heat control nodes.

38 seconds of sustained output without any skills versus 1 minute and 3 seconds with mastery. On Live.

Lol, heat isn't important, and certainly not when our jump-jets are cutting into the cool-down, Nope, never!

Quote

Maybe you have trouble overheating all the the time regardless of weapon systems? Then by all means spec everyone of your mechs exactly the same. Only have to do your math once, right? Copy all of Gman's builds as well if you can't think for yourself.

Nice attempt at deflection. If you use your brain just a little bit, you'll figure out that unless the values on the nodes change again after their introduction, there's no need to work it out multiple times for a particular build archetype. Just like now.

[Ced Riggs]

BurningDesire, on 29 April 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

PGI need to take a quick flight to London, Ontario and see how a real F2P game is developed and maybe try and poach some of DE's team

**** no. DE is rather scummy and mistreats their customers, with obfuscating drop tables, rigging events, and lying to their clients.

Source: I've been in London, Ontario, at DE's offices and used to work for them.

[Belacose]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 April 2017 - 11:21 PM, said:

blah blah

Ok Yeomme Greene. You win, oh omnescent one! May you rest now.

I even said your name. How's that for respect?

[Belacose]

epilogue

Fixated on poptarting Night Gyr. All his Mechs specced the same.

[MechaBattler]

Community can't take a joke. But people are constantly making jokes at the devs' expense. And some of them aren't really jokes. More like flat out insults.

But sure it's the devs.

[nitra]

you get what you sow, pgi is the farmer of this field.

[Mcgral18]

Belacose, on 29 April 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:

Wow you just know everything about me! Your mind reading skills, second guessing and assumptions are spot on. Please allow me to bow down to you now.

Btw, "for example" means 'for example'.

If a mech of mine already has 1.6 heat management on live I do NOT need all, nor most, heat control nodes.

Maybe you have trouble overheating all the the time regardless of weapon systems? Then by all means spec everyone of your mechs exactly the same. Only have to do your math once, right? Copy all of Gman's builds as well if you can't think for yourself.

So, you've lost an argument and are beginning to delve into deep sarcasm and veiled insults

The game is not very deep
It's very simple to see optimal available options

Heat and cooling are among them (because damage=good) as is damage mitigation (Accel/Decel, safe pokes)
HoverJets™ can allow the latter to be forsaken, but you won't always be airborne, and the HoverJet™ skills themselves are largely not worth it


Seismic Wallhack? Always worth it
Super coolshots? Yep
A pair of Strikes? Oh, yes please (though, at least one of both good consumables)

[Sunstruck]

Its so true, take Faction Warfare, the devs didn't like big player units (aka Mercstar -MS-) so they created a unit tariff, where you had to pay cbills from the unit coffer and PENALIZED units that started to get larger than 100 players.

This didn't really work as PGI intended because the smaller units with smaller coffers were hit the hardest, the larger mega units had so many cbills anyway it didn't really matter.

Second, Faction Warfare, players from the community all recommended an alliance feature to minimize the "buckets" problem but instead PGI eliminated any Inner Sphere vs Inner Sphere battles and made the que one que Clan vs IS. This basically defeated any purpose of joining any particular house / inner sphere faction.

Its so sad what PGI has done to the Inner Sphere Faction Warfare, its been nothing but downhill since phase 3.

I feel like the only people we as a community can talk to that PGI will actually listen to is NGNG.