145 replies to this topic

[Ruar]

I'm a new player to the game. I started playing regularly in December. Since that time I've enjoyed the game and the community as a whole. Much healthier than similar games I've played.

However, the saga of the skill tree has made me think there is some toxicity in this game, but it's from the devs towards the players instead of the other way around.

I don't watch podcasts but I was interested to read about the "cheapskates" comments. From what I understand of this incident Russ said that players who buy only a few modules and then moves those modules to different mechs are cheapskates. Which is an odd way to address your player base for using a system the devs designed. How hard would it have been to reduce module cost and then bind them to whichever mech they were first used on?

Regardless, the point stands that the lead designer? of the game is actively hostile towards his player base for using a system in a way the system was designed.


Then I looked up the "on an island" comment and thought this was also odd way to react. Telling a player their opinion doesn't represent the communities opinion when the devs seem to have no interest in actually listening to the community. In fact it took a personal email from one of the "in" players to actually get some feedback. Massive favoritism towards a few individuals the devs accept as representing the community while actively ignoring the official forums where the community provides feedback.


The forums are another indication of dev toxicity because they are rarely used for any kind of feedback. Twitter and podcasts seem to be more popular while the games official forums are ignored. Odd.


Which leads back to the skill tree testing. The first test had a lot of feedback on the forums that was completely ignored. One of the comments was the overall framework was positively received, a blatant lie if you actually read the threads instead of only the response of the few "in" players.

It took a massive outcry of people willing to leave the game to get a second test. The feedback from this second test was partially listened to about refunds, but again ignored the responses about the skill tree design.

The third test also showed a distinct lack of heed given to the feedback about the skill tree design.

From the very start of the skill tree testing the bulk of forum users who responded about the skill tree have indicated it is too complex, doesn't prevent min/maxing, doesn't solve boating, and overall detracts from the game as a whole. Multiple solutions were provided that would accomplish all of the stated goals better than what was tested.

And yet the devs keep glossing over this feedback as if it never happened.


Which leads me to the conclusion that the most toxic part of this game is actually the way the devs treat their players. Something unique to me because all of the other games I play it's the players toward each other or the players towards the devs.


So now I'm sitting here wondering how much more I should invest into this game. Do I keep giving money to people who see the player base as annoyances except for a select few? Do I write off MW5 since it's being built by the same company?

I guess the real question is what makes the devs so hostile towards the players? Why do they ignore the forums?

Like I said at the top, I'm new here, does anyone have any insight into this?

[Deathlike]

Someone gets it.

[Mystere]

Hold on a second! I see a Founder's tag.

[Ruar]

Mystere, on 29 April 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

Hold on a second! I see a Founder's tag.

Yep, I love BattleTech and Mechwarrior and invested early on when I found out about the game. Then I played a few matches and all I remember was being on the edge of one of the wadis in canyon and having LRMs coming in constantly. There was another map on a desert where I was trying to learn but more LRMs. Eventually I quit because the LRM spam was too much and I deployed, forgetting about the game while I was gone. I picked up WoT and played it for a few years before seeing something about this game again and giving it a try.

[Khobai]

Quote

Someone gets it.

Unfortunately getting it means hes now stranded on the island with the rest of us

[Deathlike]

Khobai, on 29 April 2017 - 09:19 PM, said:

Unfortunately getting it means hes now stranded on the island with the rest of us

Well, it (disdain) starts from the top.

[Belacose]

Having a problem with a dev saying ( crudely paraphrased ) that 'only owning singles of modules and swapping them in and out is being a cheapskate' is a bit too PC on your part. Are they supposed to walk on egg shells all the time so as to not offend the overly sensitive types? Being candid is a good thing.

I'd rather the devs make the game rather than the players. The 'feedback was taken positively' means they welcome all the opinions of those who take the time to post. Doesn't mean they're going to implement everything some people want.

Having to make hard decisions on which nodes to take allows the skill tree even more customization. If we could easily get everything we wanted then builds would be too cookie cutter.

I don't see any "massive outcry". Maybe vocal minorities?

You're a little too nit-picky and sensitive IMO.

Edited by Belacose, 29 April 2017 - 09:43 PM.

[Khobai]

theres nothing wrong with PGI calling people cheapskates

the problem is when they changed the compensation to reward those people and punish everyone who wasnt cheap

[BurningDesire]

PGI need to take a quick flight to London, Ontario and see how a real F2P game is developed and maybe try and poach some of DE's team

[James Argent]

If you're accepting any new immigrants to the island, I think that the absolute dumbest thing a company can do is to provide an official forum and then cower in fear from it while only accepting input on someone else's communication platform.

[Y E O N N E]

Belacose, on 29 April 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

Having a problem with a dev saying ( crudely paraphrased ) that 'only owning singles of modules a swapping them in and out is being a cheapskate' is a bit too PC on your part. Are they supposed to walk on egg shells all the time so as to not offend the sensitive types?

The issue isn't being called a cheapskate, it's that it reveals a lack of understanding that they both designed and advertised the system to be used that way and that the effectively tried to pawn that behavior off as an exploit. It makes you wonder what else they don't "get."

Quote

I'd rather the devs make the game rather than the players. The feed back was taken positively means they welcome all the opinions of those who take the time to post. Doesn't mean they're going to implement everything some people want.

Re-read what was posted. He said the feedback was positive, not that the feedback was taken positively. That means PGI is saying that the consensus of the skill tree condition is positive...when it really wasn't. Not by a long-shot. Maybe only from the few brown-nosers on Twitter, but here we got not only the usual suspects but also a lot of input from newer or older faces that haven't been around before or since and it wasn't trending up. At best, it was ambivalence, which is appropriate since it really doesn't change the game.

Quote

Having to make hard decisions on which nodes to take gives the game makes the skill tree even more custom. If we could easily get everything we wanted then builds would be too cookie cutter.

I don't see any "massive outcry". Maybe vocal minorities?

You're a little too nit-picky and sensitive IMO.

There are no hard decisions. You get too many nodes to spend and the ones you can spend, you spend on the same essentials as everybody else. That's the point.

[Trev Firestorm]

The most tragic part is that it didn't start this way, in beta the devs hosted a public TS and would actually interact with players there... Then they suddenly shut it down, and at least one got trolled via dragon bowling [think there were a few other similar occurrences] resulting in knockdowns being removed (yes yes I know there were real issues with it but that was the turning point) and things just kept going downhill from there.

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 29 April 2017 - 09:48 PM.

[AnTi90d]

[Belacose]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 April 2017 - 09:45 PM, said:

There are no hard decisions. You get too many nodes to spend and the ones you can spend, you spend on the same essentials as everybody else. That's the point.

By no means could I get every node I wanted. Bet my builds are a good bit different than yours.

[Ruar]

Belacose, on 29 April 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

Having a problem with a dev saying ( crudely paraphrased ) that 'only owning singles of modules and swapping them in and out is being a cheapskate' is a bit too PC on your part. Are they supposed to walk on egg shells all the time so as to not offend the overly sensitive types? Being candid is a good thing.

I'd rather the devs make the game rather than the players. The 'feedback was taken positively' means they welcome all the opinions of those who take the time to post. Doesn't mean they're going to implement everything some people want.

Having to make hard decisions on which nodes to take allows the skill tree even more customization. If we could easily get everything we wanted then builds would be too cookie cutter.

I don't see any "massive outcry". Maybe vocal minorities?

You're a little too nit-picky and sensitive IMO.

Being offended that you call your playerbase a bunch of cheapskates because they are playing the game the you designed it doesn't seem all that PC to me. If they don't like the fact people weren't buying more modules then they should change the design instead of insulting their players.

The feedback wasn't taken positively, they said the feedback was positive about the design, which is an outright lie. I read through many, many of the threads for the first, second, and third skill tree test sessions in both the general discussion and test forums. There was almost nothing positive about the skill tree design other than a small crowd who were happy for change simply because it was a change.

The current skill tree stifles customization, forces cookie cutter designs, and encourages min/maxing compared to many of the suggestions made by players. Yes, there are some people who do want the ability to get everything, I'm not one of them, and that idea was refuted multiple times in multiple threads. Which shows me you also don't read the forums, or selectively read it one.

The fact you think in terms of vocal minority further solidifies the opinion you don't really read the forums.

[Belacose]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 April 2017 - 09:45 PM, said:

The issue isn't being called a cheapskate, it's that it reveals a lack of understanding that they both designed and advertised the system to be used that way and that the effectively tried to pawn that behavior off as an exploit. It makes you wonder what else they don't "get."

I have have several 'Seismic Sensors'. Several 'Radar Deprivations'. Not getting full return on that is fair in your opinion?

[nitra]

there is no understanding PGI. i firmly believe their business strategy dept. has a hat with a bunch of concepts in it . they draw from the hat and follow through with it blindly and stubornly.

as for the forums. it was clear way back when that the founders and the dev team never really saw eye to eye.

and it just devolved from there. as for today, i have no idea what they are thinking .

[Belacose]

Ruar, on 29 April 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

Yes, there are some people who do want the ability to get everything, I'm not one of them, and that idea was refuted multiple times in multiple threads. Which shows me you also don't read the forums, or selectively read it one.

Spent plenty of time in the PTS. No I don't read every whining post in the forums. You sir are correct.

Edited by Belacose, 29 April 2017 - 10:06 PM.

[Ruar]

Belacose, on 29 April 2017 - 09:57 PM, said:

Spent plenty of time in the PTS. No I don't read every wining post in the forums. You sir are correct.

Thank you for confirming that you are just as out of touch with the player base as the devs because you cherry pick which threads to read and which to ignore.

I don't read every thread, but I do make an effort to read a cross section of threads even if I don't agree with what is being said. Otherwise how will I ever understand someone else's point of view.

[Belacose]

Ruar, on 29 April 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Thank you for confirming that you are just as out of touch with the player base as the devs because you cherry pick which threads to read and which to ignore.

lol