94 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

"But PGI is going to put heat gen on it... wa wa wa"

No... quite simply, stealth armor would be the most OP thing ever.

First thing first, why is stealth a bad idea? Let's go back to the days of Diablo II. For about a year or two after Lord of Destruction came out, game was great. People were hitting level 92s (anymore or would too much of a grind) with a wide range of build. Then for some, Blizzard introduced immunity.
Now you can't just have an Amazon leading 7 level 1 in Hell Cow Level powering people. Cause... cows might be immune.

Now, let's take that scenario, and rather than cows that's controlled by 20 lines of codes, and replace them with human. Immunity simply does not belong in a first person shooter. I don't know who came up with that idea, but it has to be the most asinine thing in the history of first person shooting.

Look, I get it. Nobody cares about LRMs, and maybe not a lot of people are fond of streaks. But they EXIST and is a huge part of the lore. You can't just completely nullify a weapon system for no raisen.

"BUT THE HEAT!!!"

No.

What people are not outright saying, is that everyone smart (probably including b33f, waiting to make a funny video about it) will just use macro to do a 1/2 second toggle with .2 second activation. Technically, you are activating it for only what... 1% of the time? So there is NO heat build up.

But the result is the same. You will completely murder all locking mechanism. First of all, no matter how much BAP, TAG, TComp you are bringing, there are bound to be locking time. I just have to flash the millisecond toggle to completely wipe your targeting. I don't need to leave it on, and you will NEVER get a lock on me.

Same goes for every other suckers. Do you know how much of an advantage it is to have a permanent disguise of the damage location info?

But hey, macro is not illegal, so go nuts.

(And even if they implement a similar system to the flamer, where toggle require a cooldown timer, that's still fine. I only need microsecond to wipe your targeting. I don't need to have it on all the time. How much heat can I possibly generate from milliseconds? )

And you know why people are not bringing this up? Cause I can guarantee you that almost all meta guys are going to abuse it and make life hell for everyone not in on the scheme. Then maybe after a few month when they get bored, one of them will b7tch about it on the forum and get some kinda weird PGI fix that will undoubtedly pissed off everyone.

So, I ask, why even go there? Of all things that can increase TTK and diversify the game (and I am talking main stream stuff like X-pulse and reactive/reflective armor), why do you implement a "niche" thing that only die-hard lore fans will know/appreciate?

This honestly makes absolutely no sense. Cause permanent immunity to LRM/Streak is just so fair.

So please, PGI. You still have chance to recant this. Like you did with the mini-map resize (yea, I am still keeping score, don't think I forget already). Remove stealth, and give us what we really need (reactive/reflective) armor to break up meta.

(And no, visual is not OP you dumb fool. That's a terrible argument when "paying attention" is your only counter to a game feature eraser.)

Edited by razenWing, 02 May 2017 - 07:06 PM.

[FupDup]

It really just goes to show that missile locks shouldn't be dependent on red doritos. You should be able to get a lock on any target in your LoS, with the caveat that targets without doritos just take longer to lock and lose the lock immediately if you can't hold your cursor over the target.

On the other hand, I would greatly enjoy running a light mech with Stealth Armor just to troll the living hell out of Skillcrows and other similar designs. They deserve it.

[Dirus Nigh]

It can not be any more unbalancing that how ECM works now.

[razenWing]

FupDup, on 02 May 2017 - 07:06 PM, said:

It really just goes to show that missile locks shouldn't be dependent on red doritos. You should be able to get a lock on any target in your LoS, with the caveat that targets without doritos just take longer to lock and lose the lock immediately if you can't hold your cursor over the target.

On the other hand, I would greatly enjoy running a light mech with Stealth Armor just to troll the living hell out of Skillcrows and other similar designs. They deserve it.

This guy knows what I am talking about. Got your macro ready, FupDup?

Dirus Nigh, on 02 May 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

It can not be any more unbalancing that how ECM works now.

Wrong. Cause there are legitimate hard counter to ECM that goes beyond visual cues. There are ZERO counter to stealth armor. Go read the release note.

Edited by razenWing, 02 May 2017 - 07:09 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

The only Mechs that can use it are Mechs equipped with ECM which are already pretty much immune to LRMs and you have to bring BAP or CAP to overcome with streaks. The Stealth Armor can also be defeated by NARC and TAG.

[BGrey]

I am sure it would be really hard for PGI to just make it so you can't turn it off and on that often.

[razenWing]

Rampage, on 02 May 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

The only Mechs that can use it are Mechs equipped with ECM which are already pretty much immune to LRMs and you have to bring BAP or CAP to overcome with streaks. The Stealth Armor can also be defeated by NARC and TAG.

NARC? There is NO WAY you typed that with a straight face.

As for TAG, this is a direct quote:

"An armor type that takes up 12 critical slots and is used alongside an ECM Suite. When its stealth effects are toggled on the 'Mech becomes invisible to all sensors, remaining visible only to the naked eye. However, the system has some negative effects while active, such as a buildup of heat."

But for the sake of humor, let's say TAG does break stealth armor (which btw, for tag to be effective, you actually need to paint your target the WHOLE time until you get lock, it's not instantaneous), are you willing to sacrifice 1 energy point on every single mech to counter the god mech?

Edited by razenWing, 02 May 2017 - 07:17 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

TAG does break it. A Light Mech with NARC teamed with a LRM carrier will break it. MRMs will ignore it. ATMs can ignore it because they can dumbfire. The entire current meta will not be affected by it. I do not see it making any IS Mech godly.

But maybe you are right and IS will finally stop complaining about all the Clan Mechs being godly. Nah, Clan will always complain about IS and IS will always complain about Clan.

[GrimRiver]

We don't know how fast the heat build up is and how many points of heat per second yet.

It could be enough to prevent it's prolonged use and could cause an overheat when firing an alpha.

Along side it's heat build up, it takes up 12 slots and requires ECM.

There's not many top tier ECM mechs that I know of other than the Hellbringer, but those 12 slots won't leave much room for weapons and DHS I think.

I don't know.

[MechaBattler]

Suddenly all those ECM heroes make sense.

[Cy Mitchell]

GrimRiver, on 02 May 2017 - 07:30 PM, said:

We don't know how fast the heat build up is and how many points of heat per second yet.

It could be enough to prevent it's prolonged use and could cause an overheat when firing an alpha.

Along side it's heat build up, it takes up 12 slots and requires ECM.

There's not many top tier ECM mechs that I know of other than the Hellbringer, but those 12 slots won't leave much room for weapons and DHS I think.

I don't know.

Stealth Armor is IS only. Hellbringers need not apply.

[GrimRiver]

Rampage, on 02 May 2017 - 07:35 PM, said:

Stealth Armor is IS only. Hellbringers need not apply.

Ah, ok.

The only mech I can see being fearsome with it is the griffin, but then again those 12 slots of SA would leave little to work with, meaning if you wanna run those 4xSRM6A you're gonna have to drop FF or ENDO and run little to no DHS's.

Really the same with every other IS mech since their tech is soo gosh darn bulky.

Clops and Atlas really are the only ones that benefit from it I think.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

I am laughing, as if not having a dorito over someone's head is that powerful. I mean in PUG's yes it is, people in solo queue and hell even in CW without teamspeak have horrible awareness, this is no different from being 300m out with ECM on a map where visuals are just fine so no need for heat or night vision.

PPFLD meta will still kill the mech, "oh it is an atlas, shoot the CT". Laser Vomit will skill kill the mech "Shoot it". Skilldogs won't, so all the sudden all those "skilled" players running streaks will cry, but, well, there are other targets to eat with their "skill" weapons. Or they can learn to aim with normal SRM's. As for TAG or Narc? Logically yes those would break stealth armor, as would Active Probes, all three systems are ACTIVE systems that generate their own signal and don't listen for signals out of an enemy mech. As for laughing at NARC? Well, NARC gets play in even T1 and T2, it is hilarious to watch in fact.

Seriously though "oh that mech doesn't have a dorito over it? Shoot it!" Will be the name of the game and friendly fire incidents will rise due to stealth armor, that's about it. It isn't some godlike power, it isn't something new, it is Guardian ECM that also blocks Thermal and normal sensors when people get close, as well as friendlies, and, prevents you from capping or flipping objects. Yeah, super OP, not, it isn't like the Radar Derp module.

[Kaeb Odellas]

razenWing, on 02 May 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

snip

Stealth Armor needs ECM to work right?

So it follows that if you counter the ECM somehow, the Stealth Armor stops working. There are already plenty of ECM counters in-game.

They would also probably add a delay between activation and deactivation, which would also temper its spammability.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 02 May 2017 - 08:11 PM.

[Bohxim]

But how many ecm mechs have the tonnage and 12 slots to field it effectively? Maybe 6 ersl ach with minimum heatsinks, shc and 4 small laser pirate banes

[Razorfish]

A light mech with a skilled pilot is the single most powerful thing in the game. The last thing light mechs need is stealth armor.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Bohxim, on 02 May 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

But how many ecm mechs have the tonnage and 12 slots to field it effectively? Maybe 6 ersl ach with minimum heatsinks, shc and 4 small laser pirate banes

Only IS mechs can equip Stealth Armor, and yeah since it costs 2 slots in the arms, legs, and side torsos it limits builds a fair bit, because you also need ECM, another 2 slots so it is hefty, it has the same weight as standard armor so if you used ferro before, well, going to have to find somewhere else to get weight back.

Razorfish, on 02 May 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

A light mech with a skilled pilot is the single most powerful thing in the game. The last thing light mechs need is stealth armor.

Raven 3L, Locust Pirates Bane, Wolfhound Hero, Commando 2D, and the Spider 5D are that scary to you? Because those are the only lights with ECM and thus the only lights that gain access to Stealth Armor bonuses. A grand total of mechs, all of which you can flat out murder with 1-2 shots. Or are you just a bad shot, or have bad situational awareness? Out of all of those the Pirates Bane is the hardest to hit, but, easiest to kill (26-29 armor on the front side torsos, 32 on the front CT, 11-14 on the rear side torsos with 13-16 on the rear CT for damage needing to be done to kill the mech, oh no, that is nothing).

Stealth Armor is going to be niche as all get out because it's usefulness is well, niche. Oh I can hide what part of me is hurt, for mechs that get closer than x range, x being where under ecm they used to be able to target you. The utility is pretty small due to most of the utility it should have was put into Guardian ECM way back in the day.

Edited by Moonlight Grimoire, 02 May 2017 - 08:27 PM.

[El Bandito]

razenWing, on 02 May 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

"But PGI is going to put heat gen on it... wa wa wa"

No... quite simply, stealth armor would be the most OP thing ever.

And you know why people are not bringing this up? Cause I can guarantee you that almost all meta guys are going to abuse it and make life hell for everyone not in on the scheme. Then maybe after a few month when they get bored, one of them will b7tch about it on the forum and get some kinda weird PGI fix that will undoubtedly pissed off everyone.

Meta guys will not be abusing it because Stealth armor is IS only and there are no good ECM IS mechs that can make use of it. And additional 12 slots is prohibitive in many cases, because those IS mechs need at least 14 slots for Endo.

Razorfish, on 02 May 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

A light mech with a skilled pilot is the single most powerful thing in the game. The last thing light mechs need is stealth armor.

Pirate's Bane, Spider-5D, and Raven-3L are not that scary though. And they can't afford the slots, because Light mechs use both Endo and Ferro.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 May 2017 - 08:21 PM.

[Buzzkillin]

Bohxim, on 02 May 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

But how many ecm mechs have the tonnage and 12 slots to field it effectively? Maybe 6 ersl ach with minimum heatsinks, shc and 4 small laser pirate banes

Stealth armor is IS only, no need to bring up clan mechs.

[SkyHammyr]

I read the title and I thought to myself, "the clickbait hyperbole is stong with this one."
Then, the op goes to talk about LRMs & Streaks and that's when he lost me.