761 replies to this topic

[latinisator]

NeoMaddy, on 07 May 2017 - 12:15 AM, said:

Just because you can't win against the IS doesn't mean that the rest of the Clans can't. Obviously they can, simply look at the victory status. Parity is much closer in scouting, but it's still in the favor of the Clans, definitely not as circumscribed as the requirements you stated. I don't know how you can possibly argue that the balance is only an "edge" when one side currently has 100% of the victory points.

Where did I whine? My point was that IS can be victorious - at those times when the IS's Mechs are played to their roles, as often is done in scouting mode (close brawling; on invasion: longe range and then close range - mid range is mostly the Clans playground). On top I said "atm", which does apparently does have a different meaning to you and me and that is valid "in scouting" - so you do not need to volontarily misread my words and try to generalize.

On invasion mode, I lost two or three matches in this installment of Tuk as Clanner: one against a 10 man who pushed us Clanners hard and pinned us down and softened up from far away, then hit us with strikers, result: 13-48 for them; and two very intense and very close matches - the latest was 45-48 for them.
So, aff, Clans can win and they do most times. However this not because of a massive "powercreep" of the latest Mechs but the bad gameplay most IS teams - I have met yesterday - show(ed). Map dependency is a factor (damn those choke points!) as is playing to the strengths of your Mechs (and play style).

Also the victory bar is a bad indicator for balance imho as it only reflects the battlefield behaviour (like fire discipline, teamwork, situation awareness) of the fighting teams. There is the problem: cooperation and skills on IS side is currently (stressing that for you ) on most PUG groups doing invasion...questionable. Seen it out of my Clan Mechs as well of my IS Mechs.

NeoMaddy, on 07 May 2017 - 12:15 AM, said:

Some faction enthusiasts will never be swayed by evidence. Trying to balance based on forum whining is a horrible way to go.

True. I play IS as well (alt account, so not that regular) and do fairly well there, too (like 1.5k to 2k damage as I do with the Clans). However, I did not ask for any balance adjustments.
Some faction unfriendly enthusiasts will always be swayed by biased interpretation of evidence (or what they take it for).

[Lobo -The Main Man-]

Last Event I Play IS

Nearly 15 Scoutings games only two wins (most time versus nearly complete Clan Teams)

Nearly 10 Invasion games no wins (most time versus nearly complete Clan Teams)

No fun in any of this games

Next Event I Play Clan Mechs, sorry for this.

Edited by Lobo -The Main Man-, 07 May 2017 - 01:43 AM.

[latinisator]

-Ramrod-, on 06 May 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

be 12v10...oh and bring back the Long Tom

10v12? I long for that, you filthy freebirth.
Long Tom? I would say Clans get to keep the radar jammer and IS gets Long Tom back as the grand prize of scouting.

Lobo -The Main Man-, on 07 May 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

Next Event I Play Clan Mechs, sorry for this.

Just make sure that you do not have the insignia of Clan Running Dog. Yes, they have good units but their PUGs are...whelps.

[Raubwurst]

Tiantara, on 07 May 2017 - 01:06 AM, said:

- Defeat after defeat and again and again...
All that "magnificent" armor quirks just give few seconds run under heavy ranged fire of whole clan team. When you get to close combat like 230-350m you have less than 50% of armor and half of firepower with less heatsinks. +10% of energy range - laughable, when every clan mech have not only bigger range and modules, but also TC and bigger speed to change distance after shot.
Forcing battle Clan vs IS show that both side just can't be balanced due difference of hardpoint numbers, less usable tonnage in IS mech, too big Heatsinks, less room after placing endo-steel and many more.
many IS mech have cap of 30-40 firepower even when they heavy. And same tonnage Clan can bring twice as big firepower with smart splice in 2-3 groups.

Well, I've played about 8 Games yesterday and won 6 of them (the losses were against the leading Smoke Jaguar Team and one match we lost 48-46 with one damn disconnected player that had 3 'Mechs left). We were only a group of 3-4 guys throughout the evening. (One match we even played together on the canyon-like map which name I just forgot).
We aren't bad players, but we aren't that good, too, but what we did is, we used the VoIP and called targets, when to push, where to push, where to hold and which OGen to focus and, last but not least, motivated the team to keep it up. Nothing more.
In some games other players jumped on the VoIP-train and called targets, too, which increased the chance of winning by far!
Most of the players did listen to commands (not you Tiantara, I bid you twice to move back with your assault into the fireline, but you didn't wanted to...) and where happy about winning a game.
Of course. If you have to play against big or strong premades, your chances are low, but if you want to have fun and win, you should at least TRY to coordinate. Most of the people claim, that there is no coordination. Be the brave warrior and start the coordination! Don't wait for others to pic up the mic, do it yourself! If you think you are not experienced enough to call locations, that is fine, sou can still call targets that are in the open/dangerous/cored/annoy you/what ever!
You will see, that your team will be performing way better when some people just try to use VoIP

Edited by Raubwurst, 07 May 2017 - 01:59 AM.

[latinisator]

Ed Steele, on 06 May 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:

since Clans can no longer bring Stormcrows

I never understood why SCRs became the nations whipping boy. Or why some Clanner fancied them. All Clan Mechs have sticks for legs. SCRs have, too.

Edited by latinisator, 07 May 2017 - 02:05 AM.

[Luscious Dan]

I'm at a 1.6 W/L for the event, dropping with the Golden Foxes as Marik. It can be done. First two games were roflstomp losses to a 10-man KCOM group but since then we've been rolling well. Teamspeak is OP.

[NeoMaddy]

kit ohnira, on 07 May 2017 - 12:45 AM, said:

You do know that a standard IS lance is four and a standard clan star is five? technically were having our numbers cut down in this game

That's not at all how those units worked. Yes, the smallest units of organization for Clans is a star of five mechs and a lance of four for Inner Sphere. However, it was never 2 stars versus 2 lances, or even 3 lances. Most of the time the numbers breakdown was one star against a full company (12) or sometimes even a battalion. Saying that Clan numbers are being cut down is absolutely absurd. I can't think of a single major battle in lore where the sides had numbers parity between Clans and Inner Sphere. Not that lore matters for MWO, but if you're trying to make a point based off of it, you're incorrect.

latinisator, on 07 May 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

Where did I whine? My point was that IS can be victorious - at those times when the IS's Mechs are played to their roles, as often is done in scouting mode (close brawling; on invasion: longe range and then close range - mid range is mostly the Clans playground).
\snip/
So, aff, Clans can win and they do most times. However this not because of a massive "powercreep" of the latest Mechs but the bad gameplay most IS teams - I have met yesterday - show(ed). Map dependency is a factor (damn those choke points!) as is playing to the strengths of your Mechs (and play style).

Also the victory bar is a bad indicator for balance imho as it only reflects the battlefield behaviour (like fire discipline, teamwork, situation awareness) of the fighting teams. There is the problem: cooperation and skills on IS side is currently (stressing that for you ) on most PUG groups doing invasion...questionable. Seen it out of my Clan Mechs as well of my IS Mechs.
\snip/

I'm not claiming that you were whining, that was poor specification on my part. I was referring to what else I've read on this forum where people commonly have the gall to suggest that the tech imbalance is non-existent. Furthermore, I don't think that the issue is powercreep with the newest mechs at all. I think it's the inherent issue of powercreep when they introduced clan tech. Clan mechs as a whole, both new and old, are in general superior than IS mechs. Yes, there are outliers such as Battlemasters that are great for ranged combat or Centurions that are devastating brawlers, but the point remains that these are very limited selections from the huge stable of IS chassis and variants, and they are pigeonholed into one playstyle or in some cases loadout. There are more Clan mechs that can be competitive and can easily swap roles or be more generalist based on lenient clan tech and the versatility/specificity offered by omnipods.

And ultimately, you're not wrong about the importance of coordination and tactics. Regardless of faction, the side that is organized versus a PUG team will win the vast majority of matches, usually by a wide margin. However, when you see two organized groups face against each other, the Clan team usually wins. I believe attributing this simply to a skill gap is frankly insulting to IS pilots. The fact is that if Clan mechs make you more likely to win and PGI rewards you for being on the winning side, then more of the good players who care about winning will transfer to the Clan side, creating a snowball effect and resulting in the 100% victory for one side that we can see now.

The evidence points to Faction Play being totally broken at the moment and nowhere near a point of parity. People can blame this on PUGs, but that is both reductionist and counterproductive. If the mode is as PUG unfriendly as possible, then the mode will die and we're back to no one playing the mode. Ultimately, PGI should do something to try to fix this mode that was supposed to be the jewel in their crown rather than the black eye it currently is, and blaming this mess on players is not the way to get things fixed.

Edited by NeoMaddy, 07 May 2017 - 02:26 AM.

[Bluttrunken]

Yes the balance is perfect. You win clan peeps. I'm a 100% potato, can't organize and I don't have a clue whatsoever. God bless i neither need cBills or MC. MC payout is only around 7~8$ worth of mc. I'll go back playing Urbanmechs in Tier 4.


Tukkayid 2 was a lot of fun, I was asking myself why everyone is hating on FP:
InnerSphere (29/63) 46.03% | Clans (34/63) 53.97% (http://mwomercs.com/...nts?t=201512tuk)

This not so much, I have no intentions whatsoever to participate any longer. Go burn in hell Tuk3:
http://mwomercs.com/tournaments

Edited by Bluttrunken, 07 May 2017 - 02:35 AM.

[Tiantara]

Raubwurst, on 07 May 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

Well, I've played about 8 Games yesterday and won 6 of them (the losses were against the leading Smoke Jaguar Team and one match we lost 48-46 with one damn disconnected player that had 3 'Mechs left). We were only a group of 3-4 guys throughout the evening. (One match we even played together on the canyon-like map which name I just forgot).

- Well... I more than 50 games for 2 days and have victory in 4 of them. Not encouraging result as you can see and not motivating one too. We even loose when enemy team have 5-6 DC... awful!
So, I just cant keep positive emotions if every battle ends as defeat and you have no chance to change anything.

Raubwurst, on 07 May 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

We aren't bad players, but we aren't that good, too, but what we did is, we used the VoIP and called targets, when to push, where to push, where to hold and which OGen to focus and, last but not least, motivated the team to keep it up. Nothing more.
In some games other players jumped on the VoIP-train and called targets, too, which increased the chance of winning by far!
Most of the players did listen to commands (not you Tiantara, I bid you twice to move back with your assault into the fireline, but you didn't wanted to...) and where happy about winning a game.

- Sometimes VoiP caller have so quiet voice - that you don't hear anything. Only annoying noise.
And what about command - I don't remember that I can move to called position without taking damage from enemy. Many times so called command only force to die without any damage dealing to enemy. Why I should listen it from someone who didn't even know hom much my mech damaged already and what speed I have to do what he want? Eh?

Raubwurst, on 07 May 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

Of course. If you have to play against big or strong premades, your chances are low, but if you want to have fun and win, you should at least TRY to coordinate. Most of the people claim, that there is no coordination. Be the brave warrior and start the coordination! Don't wait for others to pic up the mic, do it yourself! If you think you are not experienced enough to call locations, that is fine, sou can still call targets that are in the open/dangerous/cored/annoy you/what ever!
You will see, that your team will be performing way better when some people just try to use VoIP

- Coordination won't help you if your mech already loose half of weapon or so called teammate block the way to move. Also - when you ramp into someone mech it loose speed and stops. If engine not so fast - gaining speed back need time and every new hit in back by mech body turn your speed to zero again! How can I maneuver in that situation? Especially in narrow map places? And every that kind of stop - give me precise snipe shoot from clan mech.

[Tiantara]

NeoMaddy, on 07 May 2017 - 02:25 AM, said:

Ultimately, PGI should do something to try to fix this mode that was supposed to be the jewel in their crown rather than the black eye it currently is, and blaming this mess on players is not the way to get things fixed.

- I have an idea how to fix that situation
But only if someone support it and bring it to someone in PGI for future changes of FP.
I hope that can help FP live long and make more people involved to that cool strategy mode.

Edited by Tiantara, 07 May 2017 - 08:03 AM.

[Kit Nagasawa]

NeoMaddy, on 07 May 2017 - 02:25 AM, said:

That's not at all how those units worked. Yes, the smallest units of organization for Clans is a star of five mechs and a lance of four for Inner Sphere. However, it was never 2 stars versus 2 lances, or even 3 lances. Most of the time the numbers breakdown was one star against a full company (12) or sometimes even a battalion. Saying that Clan numbers are being cut down is absolutely absurd. I can't think of a single major battle in lore where the sides had numbers parity between Clans and Inner Sphere. Not that lore matters for MWO, but if you're trying to make a point based off of it, you're incorrect.

I am correct in the point i was making you obviously missed it. *tips his cowboy hat*

[Anunknownlurker]

To all the IS people saying "I won this many"; just look at the stats, for WHATEVER reason Clan is whooping *** and this event is over right from the start. This sort of result gives someone like me, a decently high average player (albeit a bit salty at times!) absolutely NO incentive to try this game mode. The rewards? Yeah, they are good but I work for a living and don't wish to spend my hobby time working as well.

I don't want to stomp or be stomped, I want good, fun games.

[Raubwurst]

Tiantara, on 07 May 2017 - 02:37 AM, said:

- Sometimes VoiP caller have so quiet voice - that you don't hear anything. Only annoying noise.
And what about command - I don't remember that I can move to called position without taking damage from enemy. Many times so called command only force to die without any damage dealing to enemy. Why I should listen it from someone who didn't even know hom much my mech damaged already and what speed I have to do what he want? Eh?

That's true, the quality of VoIP is sometimes quite low and it is hard to understand the other person. (Sometimes even the rather sluggish american-english from us-people is hard to understand as someone that is not native speaking english).
I always try to speak as clear as possible with my german accent. And as long as no one tells me, that I am too hard to understand, I won't know it

And a "true" to your second point: Some "commanders" will tell you to push into a meaningless death or even shout "PUSHHHH" and standing in the last line. That annoys me, too. I always try to lead by example, going into the push on the front line (and mostly lose my 'Mech that way).

But what I was talking about was not the command to push, but rather to come back into the line and not stick to far on the front with your assault (IIRC it was a Mauler with 90% health on the right canyon side). I just wanted you to get back to the rest of the team, to prevent you from being overrun from our enemies, because we couldn't help you much that far away

[Gwahlur]

Man, this is so ****** up. It would be comical if i wasn't so ******* RAGEINDUCING!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tiantara]

Raubwurst, on 07 May 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

That's true, the quality of VoIP is sometimes quite low and it is hard to understand the other person. (Sometimes even the rather sluggish american-english from us-people is hard to understand as someone that is not native speaking english).
I always try to speak as clear as possible with my german accent. And as long as no one tells me, that I am too hard to understand, I won't know it

- Yeap... Most annoying is when you hear also tapping on keyboard, some background music and some candy paper rustle. That just unbearable. So, sometimes I just turn off VoiP for some person as is.

Raubwurst, on 07 May 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

And a "true" to your second point: Some "commanders" will tell you to push into a meaningless death or even shout "PUSHHHH" and standing in the last line. That annoys me, too. I always try to lead by example, going into the push on the front line (and mostly lose my 'Mech that way).

- Not only that. Commanding to fire at called target when only 1\3 of team see it or even no one except commander see the target also not smart. Especially funny when team have support LRM, commander see mech without ECM cover and don't even bother to lock or spot it. That kind of command also useless. I heard enough of not great decision so trying to play accordingly to plan used for specific map and mech in team. Better than run for every command and die without any score for nothing.

Raubwurst, on 07 May 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

But what I was talking about was not the command to push, but rather to come back into the line and not stick to far on the front with your assault (IIRC it was a Mauler with 90% health on the right canyon side). I just wanted you to get back to the rest of the team, to prevent you from being overrun from our enemies, because we couldn't help you much that far away

- Ah, that game... As I remember everyone run to opposite gates and I was left near another. If I stay in place - I can do 1-2 back kills to moving in push enemy, not die because I move to team and show myself exposed. Also - there was place where on speed of 56KPH you have no chance to run back safe to team if you "stuck" there. So - If I stay deep in the corner with my back rock cover, with my pinpoint damage I took with me some enemy... not loose for nothing my Mauler.
That why I don't move to team right away.
And moving later was a mistake, because no one say that enemy push go in my gate not team.

[Kurvi]

Hey PGI.

Is there any chance you could publish what the current clan/IS win loss rate is? I ask because (as I understand it) the tug of war bar is basically a linear progress bar. That is, even at 100% it just means that the clans are 100+ wins up which can happen even at 51% win rate assuming enough matches are played.

I'm just saying this becuse that bar is kinda discouraging to the IS side...


...unless of course the clans really are winning 90% of the matches, in which case it probably won't help with moral.

[PFC Carsten]

Hopefully the new skilltree will arrive soon to give clan mechs those direly needed buffs that only the OP IS mechs can enjoy at this time,

[invernomuto]

What really make me sad is that we're playing an event where one side is winning 100% to 0% after a couple of hours from start and developers does not make any official statement about the state of game balance.
They seem not to have any clue about balancing. I do not understand how can you organize a similar event IF the numbers are those that we see in the game right now.
I am playing clans right now (and with my playing skill, this should benefit Inner Sphere...), but I expect that either side enjoys the game.

Edited by invernomuto, 07 May 2017 - 05:06 AM.

[Tiantara]

Kurvi, on 07 May 2017 - 04:43 AM, said:

I'm just saying this becuse that bar is kinda discouraging to the IS side...

...unless of course the clans really are winning 90% of the matches, in which case it probably won't help with moral.

- Yeap.. bar show real things. IS have nothing to do with than only try hard, survive and use any tactic which can bring victory. So yes - Clans winning in 97%. And IS loose.
For more than 50 games I got 4-5 victory.

PFC Carsten, on 07 May 2017 - 04:47 AM, said:

Hopefully the new skilltree will arrive soon to give clan mechs those direly needed buffs that only the OP IS mechs can enjoy at this time,

- New skill tree also impact weakest IS mech and make others - weaker than they are. Why do I think so? Because most of IS mech must have addition to accel-decel to speed. Fast stop, archore turn and some other things. You loose some point in useless arm movement if your mech have no weapon in arms. Also every mech vital part - heatmanagement - without full skill tree, your mech just become unplayable by default. Especially some medium and light which must have 9 hardpoints spend for 3 DHS. Im really afraid of situation when 3\4 of all mech become junk and cant even run as before not mention hards battle or brawling anymore.

invernomuto, on 07 May 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

What really make me sad is that we're playing an event where one side is winning 100% to 0% after a couple of hours from start and developers does not make any official statement about the state of game balance.
I am playing clans right now (and with my playing skill, this should benefit Inner Sphere...), but I expect that either side enjoys the game.

- I'm in IS side right now and till the end of event... so all I get - prizes for hard getting score and mostly defeats. Playing for clan right now is easiest way to have many c-bill and more fun at all... IS - more like work and stress. Whatever deck you have - chance to win close to zero.
So... sometimes I starting to see how teammates kill each other to get score or just to blow someone who block the way or play not as they want.
As I can see... in IS mech I have damage score barely over 1000 and mostly 500... when in Clan mech it was always near 1600 and mostly 1000-1100.

Edited by Tiantara, 07 May 2017 - 05:08 AM.

[Manny Rhyde]

invernomuto, on 07 May 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

What really make me sad is that we're playing an event where one side is winning 100% to 0% after a couple of hours from start and developers does not make any official statement about the state of game balance.
They seem not to have any clue about balancing. I do not understand how can you organize a similar event IF the numbers are those that we see in the game right now.
I am playing clans right now (and with my playing skill, this should benefit Inner Sphere...), but I expect that either side enjoys the game.

Pgi has never known how to balance gameplay since getting out of closed beta. They would constantly go back and forth on LRMs, SRMs, Streaks and gauss rifles. This would continue on for months until like easter in 2015 where there like **** it and just go on vacation. I wish MWO is a better game but it's ruined by a poor company.