761 replies to this topic

[Krucilatoz]

Been playing this event for several days, I think this is not Clan vs IS anymore,
but Mercs (the big, mean, stompy kind of ..) vs pugs / loyalists. And those mercs happen to stay at Clan, especially Smoke Jag.

When its a pugs vs pugs, you can hope for 50/50 win-lose chance, only team with better coordination and focus firing win.
When its a premade from top-10 units, its a stomp, doesnt matter IS or Clan.
I have one match against EVIL, siege mode and we have attack side. And, they all aggresively come out from the base and stomp all of us. Ended the match with 48 - 10 loss.

I think PGi should make an incentive for loyalists, maybe a more tonnage in dropdeck? For example :
IS loyalists : 265 ton
Clan loyalists : 250 ton
Mercs / freelance : 240 ton, no matter IS or Clan contracted
Well, this not going to solve the tukayyid event, but maybe for FP in general.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

Krucilatoz, on 08 May 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

IS loyalists : 265 ton
Clan loyalists : 250 ton
Mercs / freelance : 240 ton, no matter IS or Clan contracted
Well, this not going to solve the tukayyid event, but maybe for FP in general.

Good idea : Add 10T to Clan loyalists, remove 0T from the Clan mercenaries, add 0T to IS loyalists and remove 25T from the IS mercenaries, that should work out great

Edited by Humble Dexter, 08 May 2017 - 09:23 PM.

[Commander A9]

Humble Dexter, on 08 May 2017 - 09:21 PM, said:

Good idea : Add 10T to Clan loyalists, remove 0T from the Clan mercenaries, add 0T to IS loyalists and remove 25T from the IS mercenaries, that should work out great

No.
No.
Hell no.

Just make it 250-even across the board.

People need to stop blaming mercenaries for playing the game the way PGI designed it.

[Lorginir]

Commander A9, on 08 May 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

Is it unfair because of some kind of mechanical flaw?

Or is it unfair because of the caliber of players who happen to be facing each other?

It is unfair because of tech disparity. The gap is so huge that even people like you can win.

[Krucilatoz]

Humble Dexter, on 08 May 2017 - 09:21 PM, said:

Good idea : Add 10T to Clan loyalists, remove 0T from the Clan mercenaries, add 0T to IS loyalists and remove 25T from the IS mercenaries, that should work out great

I like your sarcasm, thats why i wrote "for example", number is just anything that pops on my brain when i write it.
The main idea is giving incentive to play as loyalists, its a kind of trade off. You want to freely choose any faction? Good, here your max tonnage. You want to locked to one faction (and having big penalty if desserted)? Great, here more tonnage to help you win. The great house bless you with extra cargo plane for bigger tonnage logistic.

Lorginir, on 08 May 2017 - 09:42 PM, said:

It is unfair because of tech disparity. The gap is so huge that even people like you can win.

I dont know if the new tech for IS will help shift the balance. I only hope it will.

[G SE7EN7]

Humble Dexter, on 08 May 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

I think what we needed was a "no group event", to remove the "pugs vs unit" for a few days, instead of increasing it tenfold. On the bright side for IS : After this event, the new IS weapons will be tweaked to one shot one clan lance at a time (mech mounted IS orbital cannons ).

Instead should remove the pug element, you dont have to be in a unit but you at least should be in a group. Why people arnt checking out the plethora of TS channels out there for a group to jump in with I dont know.

[tingod]

The is-dropships need more power against clan. 7/10 games they come to the droppoint and kill the fresh droped mechs .
Sorry my bad english.

[ball0fire]

hahahaha

hahha

soo glad i didnt waste my time with this

knew the outcome as soon as the spoilers was shown

[NocturnalBeast]

Well, PGI can give Clans back that 5 tons in Scouting now, IS has more than enough mechs that can counter the Stormcrow now.

tingod, on 08 May 2017 - 11:27 PM, said:

The is-dropships need more power against clan. 7/10 games they come to the droppoint and kill the fresh droped mechs .
Sorry my bad english.

Ok, as long as Clan dropships get actual, un-nerfed Clan weapons.

[Maruku Meshima]

let see: 07:53 Berlin Timezone

Clan:
Smoke Jaguar: 35.807 (1. Merc, 2 Merc, 3 Merc, 4. Merc 5.Merc)
Jade Falcon: 13.056 (1.Loyal, 2. Merc, 3.Loyal, 4.Loyal, 5. Loyal)
Ghost Bears: 13.031 (1.Loyal, 2.Merc, 3.Loyal, 4. Loyal, 5.Loyal)
Clan Wolf: 11.631 (1 Loyal, 2 Loyal, 3 Loyal, 4.Loyal, 5.Loyal)
Together 73.828

IS:
Liao: 13,859 (1.Merc, 2.Loyal, 3.Merc, 4.Merc, 5.Merc)
Marik: 13.597 (1. Merc, 2.Merc, 3. Merc, 4.Merc, 5.Merc)
Steiner: 10.821 (1.Loyal, 2.Loyal, 3.Loyal, 4. Merc, 5. Loyal)
Rasalhuge: 8.859 (1. Loyal, 2.Merc, 3. Loyal, 4.Merc, 5.Loyal)
Davion: 7784 (1.Loyal, 2.Loyal, 3.Loyal, 4.Loyal, 5.Loyal)
Kurita: 6908 (1. Merc, 2. Loyal, 3.Merc, 4.Merc,5. Loyal)
Together: 61.828

difference : 11.697

why don´t let the Mercs fight for the Clans/IS but don´t add them to the leaderboards.
Make a Leaderboard for the Mercs separately and we will see who is the best Loyal in Clan/IS and who is the Mercs in Clan/IS
what i actually see is that Smoke Jaguar have only Mercs and no Loyalist units(under the first 5) and are 22.00 points in lead for the next Clan/IS Faction.
This is good for the Best Playing Units(and this are simple the Mercs how to see) and show us how much we have to learn from them. See it what it is its not IS or Clansmechs are better! Its about how is the best Unit in game, how can play as a unit, have the best strategy and the best focus fire. Plays on competition mode and have time for this.
AND
who has real live with job, kids, friends and other probs that make you play only 1-2 hours per day to play and make your unit proud.

i like the Faction war/Invasion. i have started MW:O to play with friends FW/IV but the Mode has been loos his appeal to me since the make Quickgame mods in it. But i hope it will be better after that all.
appeal

[Gwahlur]

So, TLDR:

Clan players: "Everything's fine"
IS players and event stats: "Everything's not fine"

[Jurosik]

Krucilatoz, on 08 May 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

Been playing this event for several days, I think this is not Clan vs IS anymore,
but Mercs (the big, mean, stompy kind of ..) vs pugs / loyalists. And those mercs happen to stay at Clan, especially Smoke Jag.

When its a pugs vs pugs, you can hope for 50/50 win-lose chance, only team with better coordination and focus firing win.
When its a premade from top-10 units, its a stomp, doesnt matter IS or Clan.
I have one match against EVIL, siege mode and we have attack side. And, they all aggresively come out from the base and stomp all of us. Ended the match with 48 - 10 loss.

I think PGi should make an incentive for loyalists, maybe a more tonnage in dropdeck? For example :
IS loyalists : 265 ton
Clan loyalists : 250 ton
Mercs / freelance : 240 ton, no matter IS or Clan contracted
Well, this not going to solve the tukayyid event, but maybe for FP in general.

Neat idea there is only a small tiny problem with it. EVIL are steiner loyalist. This wont help you wining against EVIL. Only force Mercs to go loyalist.

Edited by Jurosik, 09 May 2017 - 01:30 AM.

[naterist]

They should do 2 seperate ques, 1 of only 12 mans, and one for groups of 4 and lower + solos. If i were going to split to two ques, id do that.

Hin hint, nudge nudge, pgi.

Or just double down on the strongarming (which worked when 4.1 initially dropped) and decrease clan tonnage 5 tons a day that their overfilled with units this event.

[Kmieciu]

Clans win because of better players.
Clans have better players because clantech is better.
Good players choose the best tools because they want the best chances of winning.

Clantech will never be balanced as long as clan engines, dhs, endo and ferro are straight up better than IS versions. In order to achieve balance you would need to buff IS weapons to be straight up better to compensate.

And guess what. Some IS weapons truly are, thanks to quirks. LBX10 on a Centurion-D is better than a C-LBX10 on a quirkless Huntsman. 2xUAC5s on a Enforcer-5P are better than 2xC-UAC5s on a HBKIIC.
But IS quirks are going to be extinct soon, and this event is probably the last time I side with Inner Sphere for Faction Play.

Edited by Kmieciu, 09 May 2017 - 01:52 AM.

[shameless]

going off population there are more IS players. 56%> 44% point of fact.

There may be more ACTIVE clan players, and yes, more MERC units in clans, certainly some of the stronger merc units are clan.

The new tech is going to help things out alot, hell Light fusion engines and rotaries are gonna be awesome. While you don't get as much tonnage as you do by taking XL you do get to survive a side torso loss. As most IS mechs will still be keeping defensive quirks, this is going to make them far more durable than clan mechs,
Depending on how they work, MRM's are going to be huge for brawling,

On the other side we see Heavy lasers (even hotter than erppc for the large) and Atm's which will be inverse LRM's. (do more damage the closer you are to the target)

I do believe clan mechs ARE better now than IS mechs, but the difference isn't something insurmountable, and come july that gap is going to close significantly.

[Simulacrum]

We have four main problems in the balancing of MWO.

The first is the typical kind of super efficient playstile, we all know as "Meta". It is like a plague spreading through this forum and on nearly every mwo related website. Sure, it is part of human nature and of competitive PVP games to play the best load-out possible but PGI did a huge mistake when they let players edit the mech load-out in a way like we have it today.
So you've the core gamers, playing their "Meta Mech", smiling about all those "potato" pilots, driving a Mech just for fun. And you have that casual stile gamers, playing a great game in their few free PC time just to power down after work. (do you say 'power down' in english if you just want to get to 'relax mode' in english?)
If you only play Mechs with "Meta" load-out you're far superior to any other casual load-out (IS or Clan) and it is far too easy to edit that load-outs.

The second problem is again something out of human nature. A lot of that core gamers left the IS side when the Clans where introduced in MWO. If you're playing the efficient way it is tempting to bring superior tech to the battlefield. So a lot of MWO elite pilots are playing on Clan side, coordinated and in larger groups. Most casual gamer still play IS because these Mechs are cheaper at the first glance. (yeah, easy like that)
On average the Clan side has the better pilots, with the better tech and they are well coordinated.

Third problem is the equipment balancing itself and I am not sure if the time era will solve this problem. When MWO introduced the Clans they disbalanced the game willingly by sticking to the canon of Battletech/MechWarrior. Sadly they missed any balancing concept of that universe as Clans in the Canon fought with honour, respectively with their own code of conduct. What we see in MWO is IS vs. Clan without any self-restricting balancing effects of that COC. Canon Clan pilots would never ever hide and run away just to use their range advantage. But hey, its an MMO and PGI made the rules and its system, not the fault of Clan pilots in MWO - just to say that.

The fourth problem is the missing Matchmaker in FW.
I played that event alone or with 1 - 3 friendy of my units. Our IS side had a lot of matches of 3-5 groups vs. 1 - 3 groups, very often 7+ players of one unit on Clan side. You might try to coordinate the smaller IS groups but against a large group of well coordinated - and perfectly harmonised! - Clan pilots you've disadvantage on several levels. You need to balance the game with a working Matchmaker but yeah, I know, we dont have enough active pilots for that, bla bla. Anyway, if you see a group of 8+ against you, you know you wont have any fun in the next minutes.

Btw, I honestly do not believe in that "not enough active players" argument. Currently PGI is doing all that big core gamers a favor in doing nothing with their Matchmaker. Restrict, at least for PUGS, the max size of a group to four. If ppl want to fight with 7+ other pilots of their unit, they should play FW. And if you start an event like that you should be able to balance big groups vs. big groups and experienced pilots vs. experienced pilots or do something for gaming fun for all of your players.

invernomuto, on 06 May 2017 - 05:05 AM, said:

I played a few matches and It's early to express a judgement, but I also find the level of IS play, at least in PUG, really low.
[..]

Yes on average the IS has the lower skilled pilots. But dont let IS disadvantages fool you. With your higher damage you easily destroy a side torso (on range) with few shots. Torso twist does not help with a IS Mech if the Clan pilots just waits till he can hit that torso again. When I started playing actively around two month ago I only used IS mechs, my k/d ratio was quick near the 0.5 value because unskilled IS Mechs, with an unskilled pilot, are just canon fodder. With time and experience I raised my ratio very slowly till I bought my first Clan mech. With that mech my ratio is at 1,6 and it was over 1.0 from the beginning. With a Clan mech your alpha strikes are so devastating it is amazing, compared to IS.

[Cheretep]

I really like this event. Playing on IS and drop times are usually under 10 secs, so much better than trying to hit incursions during last event. Sure it's usually a loss in siege, but I don't mind getting stomped as I still get to wreck stuff and have fun even when total kills go 12-48.

Tech advantage for clans is clear, but it is still very possible to win as IS. Your team just has to play it a bit better than enemy team. Only a small advantage is enough but you need it. If both teams just stand still or poke and trade fire when it's convenient then clans will win. Scouting seems balanced enough for me, but there things usually quickly go very badly for one team or another. Miss one SRM volley and the whole team gets slaughtered, hit and it's soon the other way around.

I don't mind that IS will never get "Personal" daily prizes for being on the winning side. 25MC is decent compensation for getting 4 matches with total queue time of <1 min. I take every IS player "ragequit" as good news too as it guarantees even more clammers in queue waiting for me.

Also I don't see that much good stuff being on the winning side at the end of event, just a few banners. So I don't understand the supposedly huge need for merc contract reset at all.

Edited by Cheretep, 09 May 2017 - 03:13 AM.

[Gwahlur]

naterist, on 08 May 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

did you try opening alpha from the super sneaky hidey hole spot, that you have to have played forever to know about?

Where is that spot?

[MovinTarget]

Make it like qp where MM tries to line up comparable singles and groups...

If there is a shortage of players on one side of sufficient skill, give that side a premuim-time-like bonus for going up against superior odds. Can't be a flat bonus for appearance b/c players will just afk.

Or give the top 4 performers on the losing team some bonus for actually trying...

[Taxxian]

@MovinTarget

Thats really good Ideas... yet so hard to implement...

You cant simply measure the top performers by numbers... not by the numbers shown in the table after the game...

What would happen if we would give the top Match-Scoring looser a bonus?

Everyone would suddenly try to stay back and try to survive as long as possible an deal damage... if you scream PUSH half the team will go full reverse, leading the push kills your bonus you know? The rest would then start an argument why correct pushing is important... And there goes the fun...

The most important variable for calculating your earnings is WIN or LOOSE. Thats sad but every other way i can think of leads to even more problems....