91 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 04 May 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

FP is fun when you have enough people to get drops with reasonable frequency, and this event with this level of rewards should make it pretty snappy. I anticipate drop times to be quite low.

Agreed. Play in a group, as primarily designed, and low and behold be wondering what people are talking about with wait times. You then will realize that they play solo in a Group/Unit queue...

[Greyhart]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 05 May 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

actually it fits perfectly... the USA was dropping nukes on Japan in a Just War, where we were fighting against an aggressor who attacked us first. You live in a delusional wonderland if you think human nature works that way... nukes and bioweapons would have come out as the Clans won more. As a society is stressed it resorts to ever more desperate measures... now the Inner Sphere went through a normal destructive period in the 1st Succession War but it was kept in an ever decreasing state by the hideous cancer hiding in its center called Comstar. Comstar is wholly responsible for the Inner Sphere not recovering & advancing like they should have naturally (hence what makes them the Catholic Church that kept Europe in the Dark Ages for a 1000 years)... the Clans could not militarily conquer the whole of the Inner Sphere, it is so far beyond their material resources that it is laughable at best and sad that you think given the information provided that they could have since it shows a severe lack of critical thinking skills on your part.

Since Kerensky left explicit instructions that the "Clans" were supposed to be disbanded and restored to a functional Democracy not a Totalitarian Military Caste system, that all the Khans when they opened his letter promptly destroyed and never followed. Then your premise about a "golden age of humanity" being found under a Totalitarian State is so terrible that I am quite literally horrified that you express it, yet the 20th century taught us through the 100s of millions of lives lost what truly catastrophic ideas they are, people are still expressing them in the 21st century about how Socialism/Communism is going to work this time.

2 things to understand here. 1st the USA in the use of the nuclear bomb probably didn't understand the destructive power (it being so far beyond conventional weapons) and on realising they were the only ones in control of the destructive power rightly repeated the show of overwhelming force to bring to an end the war. (this however is not important, but I always think it worth pointing out that the first time you actually use something that is so new and powerful like a nuke it is a shock even if you intellectually know the power)

Secondly (more importantly) I wouldn't single out socialism/communism. Socialism is a very broad category of political/ economic theory and has worked reasonably well in parts of the world like the Nordic Model.

Communism I believe is clearly a busted flush and takes little account of human nature.

The reality is that Communism (as seen in the USSR) was little more than a one party state dictatorship. The lives lost in the USSR are due to the dictators there.

I would point out that Nationalism (especially in Europe) killed about 100 million people in the 2 world wars. And yet we currently find ourselves repeating the same isolationist nationalist rhetoric that lead us there in the past.

Neither extreme of politics really works. They both simply give you someone to hate. The leaders then use your hate to give them power over you in the guise of given themselves power over those you're told to hate.

So don't just single out the DICtators on the left but also point out the DICtators on the right too

The dull middle of the road (less dramatic) politics that we previously had ground out progress slowly and by consensus but with less loss of life and liberty. But you know this stuff isn't the entertainment that the news demands now.

http://www.historypl...story/genocide/

[Skipmagnet]

Are we really arguing about Just Wars in the thread on play rewards for Tuk3?

....


Yeah, I'm gonna grab a coffee and try to forget about some... things.

[Dino Might]

Greyhart, on 05 May 2017 - 04:28 AM, said:

2 things to understand here. 1st the USA in the use of the nuclear bomb probably didn't understand the destructive power (it being so far beyond conventional weapons) and on realising they were the only ones in control of the destructive power rightly repeated the show of overwhelming force to bring to an end the war. (this however is not important, but I always think it worth pointing out that the first time you actually use something that is so new and powerful like a nuke it is a shock even if you intellectually know the power)

We knew exactly what we were doing. Read up on the entirety of the Manhattan Project, the Trinity Tests. We had already detonated nukes out in the desert to make sure they would work. We knew what was going to happen, and there were specific reasons that we chose Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In fact, consider the continued targeting of major industry and population centers throughout the Cold War. There is/was a reason for it, based on CEP and weapon effectiveness.

And for all those lamenting the use of nuclear weapons on Japan, I am far more concerned about actions like fire bombing Tokyo, that incinerated and/or destroyed the lives of orders of magnitude more people.

War is hell.

[SmokedJag]

Valhallan, on 05 May 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

Yea something that a lot of clanners conveniently forget is that Comstar was a large part as to the Clans successes, Comstar being the primary communication provider suppressing all communication that passed through their hands regarding the invaders as well as handing over military intel, in addition supplying personnel for facilitating the suppression of conquered worlds using comstar's face. The clans wouldn't have been nearly as successful if comstar wasn't being an *** and the innersphere got it together.

Alternatively, the Clans with less contrived plot/culture stupidity would have made short work of at least the Combine. There isn't anything stopping them from launching a multiple Galaxy direct attack on Luthien as an opening move. They have the transport capacity to do that and with more force and no time to prepare Luthien doesn't stand a chance. Neither do the defending units. Secondary attacks can hit other important worlds simultaneously, destroying most of the of the organized capability to resist the Combine possesses and shattering it as a state.

The whole situation of the SLDF returning is greatly contrived.

[Mole]

Sorry. Girlfriend is coming back into town tomorrow and she is more important than any rewards they can offer me for an event that can't be done in one night. Have fun, gents.

[Curccu]

Mole, on 05 May 2017 - 05:47 AM, said:

Sorry. Girlfriend is coming back into town tomorrow and she is more important than any rewards they can offer me for an event that can't be done in one night. Have fun, gents.

I think we have a mole among us... truegamers.

[Cato Phoenix]

The rewards are quite good, and can be achieved with a modicum of effort. In fact, they're almost easily achievable with both a primary and a secondary account - and I'll probably double dip a little bit to level my for-fun faction account.

The daily reward:
Definitely worth it for the MC and Cbills. 400 match score is for me, either 1-2 games. Even if you are new and a bit of a strugglebug in FW you can probably make it.

Unitary/Solitary:
Once you snag the premium time, this is only a couple matches for the personal challenge. 2x XP bonuses will let you crank this one. And considering 30K GXP is ~45-48 skill points if you buy skills with it, that'll net you 2.1 million in skill savings.

Scouting:
Get the premium time first and you will make bank if you're grinding in Tukayyid.

The rest:
2 mech bays, enough MC to buy 3-5 more, and multiple millions?

Yeah, I'll bite.

You would be better served doing FW than QP for the next seven days. But sure, if you're going to be pessimistic; no ones forcing rewards down your throat.

I'm pessimistic enough about the skilltree, so I'll at least look forward to the event. Just wish we'd have had more of a heads up.

[Mawai]

Tordin, on 04 May 2017 - 04:02 PM, said:

I will try to play FW as much as I can the next days. I will loyally stay IS, though I do like to play around with both tech sides in Puglandia
I do wish the most massive rewards would ONLY be for Loyalists (or at least great rewards only for loyalists), mercs could get half of that lone wolves could get even less but maybe some other things to keep them in. ( Mercs have the jumping bean from faction to faction freedom anyway)

It would be nice if they offered up some special rewards for loyalists ... but lets be practical here ... one goal of this event appears to be to attract casual folks to play FW a bit and increase the population for the event.

If they followed your rewards suggestion there would be no casual or typical lone wolf quick play players even considering wasting their time on FP. On the other hand, the relatively decent personal challenge event rewards including lots of cbills and mech bays could well attract folks that haven't played FW recently (i haven't played FW since the weeks after its initial release but the rewards in the current event have me at least considering it ... so I'd say that the rewards were achieving their goal).

[Marius Romanis]

Curccu, on 05 May 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

I think we have a mole among us... truegamers.

Or zomg its his 1st and he's still in the 1st 2 years lust phase before it becomes monotonous routine.

[Amsro]

Chuck B, on 04 May 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

ckick on personal challenges, lots of c-bills and crate keys and a good amount of MC. something like 20+ million c-bills 30+ keys and 900+ mc

So IS is getting half of what Clan is getting.

[Templar Dane]

Dino Might, on 05 May 2017 - 04:45 AM, said:

We knew exactly what we were doing. Read up on the entirety of the Manhattan Project, the Trinity Tests. We had already detonated nukes out in the desert to make sure they would work. We knew what was going to happen, and there were specific reasons that we chose Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In fact, consider the continued targeting of major industry and population centers throughout the Cold War. There is/was a reason for it, based on CEP and weapon effectiveness.

And for all those lamenting the use of nuclear weapons on Japan, I am far more concerned about actions like fire bombing Tokyo, that incinerated and/or destroyed the lives of orders of magnitude more people.

War is hell.

It's not like japan was innocent. Some estimates go as high as 10 million deaths caused by imperial japan. The fact that the US dropped two atomic bombs on japan isn't really all that shocking considering their history of war crimes and the tenacity of the defenders of the islands the allies captured from imperial japan.

Bombing cities themselves instead of just the industrial zones started in the european theater thanks to both sides throwing hissy fits caused by the general inaccuracy of aerial bombing of the day.

Nobody wanted to fight for every inch of japan itself.

The real sad bit about all of it, is that japan had been attempting to sue for peace prior to those bombs being dropped. Diplomats being ignored and such, and the whole truth of that tidbit of history will likely never be entirely known.

[SQW]

@OP

Not really.
The cumulative prize is pretty much what one would earn through those grab bag events.

It's a nice chunk of cbill and mc if you are already playing FP but unless you are struggling with $$, those rewards are pretty basic for one to start spending time playing in a mode that he/she doesn't enjoy.

Edited by SQW, 05 May 2017 - 08:31 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 May 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

Well gosh darn it, now I have to pick a side. I may even have to finally join a [VOIP program of choice] server and *talk* to you people!

Your threats mean nothing to me.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

With the massive amount of fertilizer (rewards) PGI is pouring on, the Potato harvest should be at record levels...

[MischiefSC]

That units flock to the Clans for each one of these has nothing to do with game balance. Just all the players with the most experience in the game and the clearest, most demonstrated skill at identifying what actually wins, pick Clans for when the chips are down (be that comp play or Tuk) has nothing at all to do with game balance.

You just watch. When Clans roll this one for a three-pete PGI is going to look at the telemetry and say 'Well, you'd think this would indicate that Clans are still superior and that we've aggressively failed to balance Clan/IS tech for 3 years or really even have a basic grip on WHY the imbalance is there, but no! No, it's because all the best players were in Clans! So clearly tech is balanced because Standard Engines!'

[Khalcruth]

MischiefSC, on 05 May 2017 - 10:53 AM, said:

That units flock to the Clans for each one of these has nothing to do with game balance. Just all the players with the most experience in the game and the clearest, most demonstrated skill at identifying what actually wins, pick Clans for when the chips are down (be that comp play or Tuk) has nothing at all to do with game balance.

Um, sure it does. You just said so right there.

[L1f3H4ck]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 05 May 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

actually it fits perfectly... the USA was dropping nukes on Japan in a Just War, where we were fighting against an aggressor who attacked us first. You live in a delusional wonderland if you think human nature works that way... nukes and bioweapons would have come out as the Clans won more. As a society is stressed it resorts to ever more desperate measures... now the Inner Sphere went through a normal destructive period in the 1st Succession War but it was kept in an ever decreasing state by the hideous cancer hiding in its center called Comstar. Comstar is wholly responsible for the Inner Sphere not recovering & advancing like they should have naturally (hence what makes them the Catholic Church that kept Europe in the Dark Ages for a 1000 years)... the Clans could not militarily conquer the whole of the Inner Sphere, it is so far beyond their material resources that it is laughable at best and sad that you think given the information provided that they could have since it shows a severe lack of critical thinking skills on your part.

Since Kerensky left explicit instructions that the "Clans" were supposed to be disbanded and restored to a functional Democracy not a Totalitarian Military Caste system, that all the Khans when they opened his letter promptly destroyed and never followed. Then your premise about a "golden age of humanity" being found under a Totalitarian State is so terrible that I am quite literally horrified that you express it, yet the 20th century taught us through the 100s of millions of lives lost what truly catastrophic ideas they are, people are still expressing them in the 21st century about how Socialism/Communism is going to work this time.

Where did you get this "Kerensky left explicit instructions" stuff from. Alexander was long dead when Nicholas created the Clans as his ideal society.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bud Crue, on 05 May 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

To get this thread back on track (give it a rest ya lore nerds )...I made a similar point on the announcement thread, and I think that as impressive as the rewards are, Bishop is right. I think that if they want the people who have played CW in the past -and left- to give it a solid effort for this event and to draw noobs and casuals in as well, then rewards will need to be even greater. Like doubling c-bills for participation (not based on win or loss, but a bonus just for playing), that sort of thing.

If you peruse the FP forums over the last year there are several complaints as to why people left, and the rewards they are providing for this event I don't think will be enough to get casuals and FP-expats to return in mass numbers. Sure, as is, there will be a boost relative to the normal barren wasteland of population that normally defines the FP experience, but better/more participation based rewards might attract far more.

I mean, will these rewards overcome the hate/fear many have of the oft cited pug stomping by organized units?
Will these rewards overcome many folks dislike of the time commitment that an FP drop involves?
Will these rewards act to address the concern many have (however irrational) of using TS or discord and dropping with an established unit?
Will these rewards make the "this is hard core mode enter at your own risk" aspect of the advertised FP experience go away for the length of the event?

If the answer to any these questions is "no", then PGI ought to try and come up with motivators that will make the answer turn to "yes" for as many of the casual population -and even the CW haters- as possible. I think a good way to do that would be some sort of greater bonus or prize associated with simply playing and not tied to outcome of the match or the tug-of-war. [And no this isn't some commentary on "special snowflakes" or the "suck it up buttercup" aspects of society. This is just my commentary on how I think PGI could get more people to bother playing the event and hopefully make it more populated and thus more fun for everyone]

TLDR:
PGI: if nothing else think of it this way: if you want people to spend their time acting as targets of abuse for the organized groups that usually dominate FP (this is the perception of FP that a lot of folks express), then make it worth the while for people to act as those targets. The current rewards may not be enough incentive, however great those rewards may be. Including better and greater rewards for per match play not based on outcome of the match, the day or the tug-of-war might help in that regard.

Don't get me wrong, the MC is for sure the best they've ever done, but the basic Personal Challenge Cbills and such they are giving, either I'm misreading it, or my the average earning will still but a lot lower per hour than what I can grind in QP... and I can get at least 6 QP matches in per hour, instead of 1ish, for FW.

They have done a fair bit to improve FW in the last year, though Invasion is still unmitigated garbage, but the ridiculous MM queues still for me, really minimize my fun and earning potential.

YMMV. It is a decided step up in the rewards department. It's just that FW has generally been so "un-fun" for me, that I'm not feeling that interested. I guess I should double check the rules. If they allow for Scouting I might do some. IDK.

[TercieI]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 May 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong, the MC is for sure the best they've ever done, but the basic Personal Challenge Cbills and such they are giving, either I'm misreading it, or my the average earning will still but a lot lower per hour than what I can grind in QP... and I can get at least 6 QP matches in per hour, instead of 1ish, for FW.

They have done a fair bit to improve FW in the last year, though Invasion is still unmitigated garbage, but the ridiculous MM queues still for me, really minimize my fun and earning potential.

YMMV. It is a decided step up in the rewards department. It's just that FW has generally been so "un-fun" for me, that I'm not feeling that interested. I guess I should double check the rules. If they allow for Scouting I might do some. IDK.

If you finish everything, it's between 26.5 and 31MM CB. Considering a good player should be able to do it in 20 standard FP matches and 10-12 scouting, that's a big bump to earnings, especially if you add in the value of 44 cache keys (caches are on average worth more than 50K, so worth opening if you don't have to buy keys).

Edited by TercieI, 05 May 2017 - 11:15 AM.