154 replies to this topic

[Cyrion]

ingramli, on 09 May 2017 - 04:10 AM, said:

As long as IS mech still die from losing a ST (stop arguing the choice of STD engine please, it make no real sense to discuss about it for competitive game), there will be hardly any equality.

I'm not going to claim to be wildly experienced at losing a ST in every Clan mech, but in the Clan mechs I run you're basically dead anyway.

My Hellbringer is a solid mech. If it loses the left torso you might as well eject because no weapons. If it loses the right torso. . .you might as well eject. You're moving about 60KPH at that point and your agility has gone to crap. All those heatsinks you had to stuff into it so you could fire more than one alpha before overheating are now toast. Oh, and the engine nerfs mean you're even hotter. You just can't do anything.

So you know what I do? I keep myself behind cover, minimize the time I spend exposed while firing, and I do this thing that I was told was really important to being a decent Mech pilot. I torso twist. Seems to do the job most of the time.

Also, pro tip for you IS pilots. Firing your huge ballistics, twisting, and then immediately twisting back to face the opponent before you can fire again isn't a path to success. I absolutely do not mind waiting less than two seconds for you to give me another shot at your face. That's just another two seconds to cool off.

Oh, and the fact that you think STD engines can't be competitive? Let's see. What advantage does the IS have over the Clans? Weapon damage? No. Weapon range? Not really. Heat? Yes, of course, but I'm looking for something else here. What could it be? Oh, that's right. They're much, much, much, much more durable! All those armor and structure quirks. That tonnage advantage. But nah. Let's ignore that and make ourselves much more fragile so we can slap in another weapon or two and try to beat the Clans at their own game.

[Steve Pryde]

What the hell are you whining about? IS is still winning often enough. In scout mode imo IS has the upper hand if they drop with Griffins or Hunchback 4SP's (or Locusts only when they need to collect intel for dropship escape). Faction play maybe Clans have a slight advantage. But that's not mostly because of tech difference, it's the communication. IS has more casual players that won't communicate. And hell, what I have seen for mech builds... no wonder that IS is getting crushed hard.

Clan players are more competetive players. They communicate and following commands from a guy who uses voice com. That's it.

I had some good games yesterday where both sides won. Specially when IS can defend Clans have a extremly hard time.

Btw I whish Clanners have more brawler fitted mechs for attack. Pushing in for going gens with snipe mechs is just useless. Specially the Orion IIC-A and the Mad Dog are great for brawler builds.

Edited by Steve Pryde, 09 May 2017 - 04:43 AM.

[Phoolan Devi]

Drebin Cormack, on 08 May 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

I'm boycotting the system balance, I'm boycotting getting slaughtered every pug FW match and receiving little to no rewards for my time.

Everyone knows that the Clan takes home the cash during these events. With the system as unbalanced as it is, it should be the LOSERS that are paid enough to compensate them for their time. IS players receive little to no rewards for the actual matches that they play.

If you doubt me as a player, look up my stats. I'm not the best player, but I'm not the worst either. I'd say I'm slightly above average.

Don't speak for the whole IS, speak for yourself only. I'm pretty much on a 50/50 win/loose ratio......the same goes for my clan account.

[Phoolan Devi]

Valhallan, on 09 May 2017 - 12:37 AM, said:

To my fellow IS, just do Scouting for the rewards and forget about invasion after getting the 20, scouting gives far more matchscore for the time spent than invasion, it is also relatively more fair compared to invasion. There is really no reason to touch invasion at all after getting the 20 80 score matches.

Sure there is a reason.....invasion makes for way more fun, interesting and close games! Scouting is just boring and poorly implemented!

[Bud Crue]

Cyrion, on 09 May 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

What I'm interested in is exactly what you make you happy?
...
So, really, please. What exactly is it going to take?

I'm pretty happy now actually. If IS had a couple of mechs that could effectively match the high mount ppfld of the Kodak, Night Gyr and Hunch IIc or mechs that had the speed and endurance to consistently survive closing with such ppfld mechs capable of dealing 40-50 pt focused alphas, then I think things would be excellent.

But that is irrelevant. You stated above that you bet people would whine after new tech comes in. I simply pointed out that even with your oh so scary new tech, that in reality there will still be clear clan superiority in several aspects of the underlying values and so the whining will continue...with some justification. I note that in a subsequent post you suggest that OP IS endurance quirks and heat elfficiency more than compensates for other IS failings. You are just wrong here. The meta in this game is long range ppfld used by clan mechs. That is a fact. It is an advantage of pinpoint firing that no IS mech can equal. Right now the IS attempts to counter this with Grasshoppers and BMs firing 5xerll or lpls. These mechs require XL engines to pull this off, by which they are more vulnerable to death by that ppfld fire. Nonetheless, It's still effective in expert hands, but most folks are not experts. Nothing in the new tech is going to suddenly grant the IS equivalent to the current clan meta, and thus current meta -and imbalance- is maintained. This isn't some conspiracy of badness. It's just math.

[Willard Phule]

Lily from animove, on 08 May 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

sure it takes them more, because thee is so much more "bad" in the IS, stupid nonsense builds are your disadvantage already when pressing the start button for the match. I stoppd trying to play that with my IS accoutn because when you really pug you see the IS pilots more standing round comlaining in chat than actually focussing on the match. And this is an observation many have not just a few people. This war isn't won by units, it's lost by pugs. People unwilling to make proper mechs to form teams and go under the lead of others. You know beeign average IS player is a choice as there is no such a thing between average IS vs average clan. There is at best the pilot beeing average,.But the most simple thing to stop beeign average is to look what teammates that are succesfull do and copy it. But this si already outside of many peoples capabilities. (mostly because they are too stubborn and don't want to do that)

The IS doesn't have a monopoly on terribads, you know. We've got our share of droolers.

If I had to go out on a limb and make a hunch, I'd say it's a combination of population and server errors that are skewing the results. It seems that the best organized groups went IS and they're TROUNCING both Clan groups and pugs. The difference lies in the Pug on Pug matches. Clans seem to have more experienced solos than IS.

(Edit: Better explanation is that IS groups are the larger ones...10-12 mans and the Clan groups are smaller, like 2-6 mans. Turns out that Skittles vs Skittles gets horribly skewed when one side has 3-6 people that actually communicate and work together. That and the Clans seem to be dropping a LOT more NARC spotters. We've actually figured out that we can't stop our Terribads from bringing them, so we might as well put them to work. The IS hasn't quite gotten the hang of that one, yet.)

Has nothing at all to do with imbalance between technology. The IS is dropping more trial mechs than we are, at least in the matches I've participated in. That and they seem to be focusing on LRMs whenever possible....even more so than our terribads, which is an impressive feat.

I don't care what "metrics" PGI comes up with....when your servers are failing to drop entire teams, leaving them to be harvested, your numbers are going to be skewed.

Edited by Willard Phule, 09 May 2017 - 06:17 AM.

[Oberost]

Steve Pryde, on 09 May 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

Clan players are more competetive players. They communicate and following commands from a guy who uses voice com. That's it.

And after 3 years we're still playing the "skill" card...

[Wattila]

Cyrion, on 09 May 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

Oh, and the fact that you think STD engines can't be competitive? Let's see. What advantage does the IS have over the Clans? Weapon damage? No. Weapon range? Not really. Heat? Yes, of course, but I'm looking for something else here. What could it be? Oh, that's right. They're much, much, much, much more durable! All those armor and structure quirks. That tonnage advantage. But nah. Let's ignore that and make ourselves much more fragile so we can slap in another weapon or two and try to beat the Clans at their own game.

Many IS mechs can't run STD and still have relevant firepower. STD builds have less weapons, run hotter, go slower, and can't twist as well. Being able to take 2-3 more lasers to the face is hardly a game-changer. IS advantage is LPLs having a 0.67s burn time and great heat efficiency. You boat those, learn to torso twist, and you can fight clans mid-range.

Willard Phule, on 09 May 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

The difference lies in the Pug on Pug matches. Clans seem to have more experienced solos than IS.

Maybe. However, the way I see it clan mechs just work better for QP style gameplay where you trade alphas and retreat behind a corner. That advantage still remains in uncoordinated FP. Once you enter coordinated play where you have protracted mid-range engagements, IS groups boating blue beams can out-DPS clans.

Edited by Wattila, 09 May 2017 - 05:03 AM.

[Valhallan]

Phoolan Devi, on 09 May 2017 - 04:46 AM, said:

Sure there is a reason.....invasion makes for way more fun, interesting and close games! Scouting is just boring and poorly implemented!

lol, fun is subjective i much prefer fights where either brawl or range can have a shot compared to boring *** firing line exchanges where brawlers are 100% screwed over unless its the entire team doing it and the firing line doesn't notice and let's them close in cover, scouting will ALWAYS allow for closer and more interesting games because 1 person can win the game. Either a pesky erll sniper cicada/ferret/cheetoh who just stays out of all the brawlers ranges and just whittles them to ash or 1 quick sneaky light who makes a dash for the dzone (std trollmando max engine a small laser and ams + overload, hilarious!).

[Willard Phule]

Wattila, on 09 May 2017 - 05:01 AM, said:

Maybe. However, the way I see it clan mechs just work better for QP style gameplay where you trade alphas and retreat behind a corner. That advantage still remains in uncoordinated FP. Once you enter coordinated play where you have protracted mid-range engagements, IS groups boating blue beams can out-DPS clans.

Like I just put in my edit, I have a better way of explaining that.

The Groups the IS are dropping (which dominate whatever match they're in, provided they actually drop and don't end up as a harvest for Skittles) are the larger ones. 10 to 12 man groups. Of course they're going to dominate.

The Clans are dropping lots of smaller ones. 3-6 man groups. Sometimes even 2. And it seems that the experienced IS pilots pretty much belong to a large unit. Everyone else appears to be a Skittle. At least from potato level, where I live.

But, here's the thing...in a pure Skittle vs Skittle match, it's a toss up as to who's going to win. A lot of it depends on the complexity of the mission to be accomplished. But when you toss a couple of smaller groups into the mix, it truly skews the results. I've noticed that the Clans are dropping more NARC spotters. Probably because we figured out that the new guys are always going to rely on LRMs...we might as well put them to work.

[Wattila]

That's anecdotal at best. But yeah, if you're intentionally dropping in 2-4 man groups and calling shots in PUG matches, then you're being smart, more power to you.

Would be interesting to see win rate stats for pure skittle vs skittle drops, just got this hunch it would be pretty close to overall clan win rate for this event.

[Willard Phule]

Wattila, on 09 May 2017 - 06:42 AM, said:

That's anecdotal at best. But yeah, if you're intentionally dropping in 2-4 man groups and calling shots in PUG matches, then you're being smart, more power to you.

Would be interesting to see win rate stats for pure skittle vs skittle drops, just got this hunch it would be pretty close to overall clan win rate for this event.

Never said a thing about anyone calling anything. Here's an off the cuff example of what I'm talking about. IS team has 12 Skittles. None of which are really experienced. Clan side has 6 Skittles, a 2 man, a 3 man and one experienced guy that's tagging along with them.

Nobody needs to call a thing. If the experienced guys are constantly lighting up the other team, their Skittles will follow or at least make it rain. The other team without any small groups on it will do what Skittles always do...back up and never keep a target locked for more than a second. It just is.

I guess my point is that since they're NO MATCHMAKER in FW, it's not trying to put groups with groups. Tossing a handful of small groups at the larger ones would take the smaller ones out of the skittle matches and make them less one sided.

[Acehilator]

Did not read the thread. Just vote with your wallet, don't preorder/buy IS mechs for real money in any way, shape or form.

[Mystere]

Drebin Cormack, on 08 May 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

Title says it all. This is a call for all IS players to boycott the Tukayyid event. Send pgi a message.

Giving a reason why usually follows such a declaration.

Otherwise, you just sound like someone who shouts "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater. <smh>

Drebin Cormack, on 08 May 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

.... it should be the LOSERS that are paid enough to compensate them for their time.

[Vyx]

10 v 12

This simple change would go a long way balancing Clan v IS, and be in accordance to lore.

[Mystere]

Teer Kerensky, on 08 May 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

Winning a lot is fun. Losing a lot is not.

Although that is true, the latter can be made better by bloodying the nose of the enemy ... or die trying.

[Mystere]

Andi Nagasia, on 08 May 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

the system isnt as imbalanced as you would think, ya it says 80%Clan, but the Bar Lies,
Clan Score(70088) / Clan(70088) + IS Score(58929)(129017Total) = 54.3(54.3%)
so Clan is only winning by 8.6%, that also doesnt count where most Mercs are,

so your going to Boycott because of less that 10% with a 10% margin of Error,
um ok, but theirs not much of an imbalance in the Event, Clan doesnt always win, IS doesnt always Lose,

He is boycotting because he is always losing! Get it?

[Mcgral18]

Juodas Varnas, on 08 May 2017 - 09:10 PM, said:

You're a clanner.

Rest assured, there's no Faction limitation on Potato or Terribad

I've tried full PUGging 3 FW matches
10 Terribads in the first (PUGgles plz, VS 3 Spheroid Terribads)
Landslide win on the second (3 Terribad VS 8 Spheroid Terribads)
6 Terribads on the third (VS a single Spheroid Terribad)

Spoiler

Never again
Not without a certain guaranteed level of competence

Monkey Lover, on 08 May 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

Clan easy mode or 30% contract bonus Hard call to make

Why not both?

Vyx, on 09 May 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

10 v 12

This simple change would go a long way balancing Clan v IS, and be in accordance to lore.

No, it really wouldn't

You'd also destroy the PUG LIFE solo queue, and prevent any serious player from ever using a Spheroid robot
It's a bad idea


PGI could just allow you to modify Private Match stats, and you can live out your Power Creep Munckin wet dreams all you want
And we could fix balance on our own

[Mystere]

Haldricht, on 08 May 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

Clans have far more available weight and crit spaces for offense and speed, which provides the best possible basis for a game that heavily favors PPFLD. On top of that, their weapons are lighter, smaller, have better range, and do more damage. They're objectively better- the numbers do not lie. They're fighting with a 25-ton drop deck disadvantage and the current quirk system intact and they're still winning by a convincing margin.

This tells me we should start having Clan Binary vs. IS Company fights, along with other lore-friendly matchups.

[Ziogualty]

All IS pilots can do is playing the event at their best and let PGi analize the outcome.
If we don't play, data will show clans always win to this reason. If we play every game with our best mechs and with full commitment, resulting data will be more complete.

And after all, IS still grab some nice victories here and there.