154 replies to this topic

[Musashi Alexander]

When you throw 12 clan pugs v 12 IS pugs together, odds are that the clan pugs will have a better set of drop decks. It's harder for a potato to mess up a clan drop deck. Unit v unit it's more balanced but clans probably still edge it a little.

[Appogee]

Musashi Alexander, on 09 May 2017 - 12:17 AM, said:

When you throw 12 clan pugs v 12 IS pugs together, odds are that the clan pugs will have a better set of drop decks. It's harder for a potato to mess up a clan drop deck. Unit v unit it's more balanced but clans probably still edge it a little.

^ This.

[Cyrion]

I'd bet a trillion spacebucks that even after the Civil War patch, when the IS get oodles of new tech while the Clams get basically nothing, that the potato IS pilots will still be crying.

I solo queue FP or I drop with at most two friends. We have a positive W/L ratio (I think for me it's 7-3), but the IS does win. Know what determines all of these matches? Coordination. Do the PUGs talk to each other and make smart decisions? Then we're gonna win. Do they decide to be dumb and potato off by themselves? We're gonna lose.

I had some GREAT games yesterday. Like really close, hard fought games. I also got to participate in one ultra-stomp on Emerald Taiga. I opened the left gate, the team opened the right gate. We all walk through the gate and roll around behind the enemy base and NO ONE SHOT US EVEN ONCE. They didn't contest the gate whatsoever. A few of them tried sniping from their dropzone while the others huddled around the generators. We pincered them and then I and a couple of others got to farm them as they straggled back into the base. It was a turkey shoot. Had absolutely **** to do with Clan tech. Just really really dumb IS people.

Of course, the flip side of that is true as well. Had a game on Sulfurous Rift where we were attacking. Told the team to head to Alpha Gate and not to go down the middle to Beta. Nope. Five dudes decided to go down the middle. They got annihilated, the team with me at Alpha wouldn't push, and we got chewed up.

Face facts. There are more potatoes playing for the IS. The potato fields are vast for both sides, but the IS is really just chock full of them. If you can't figure out how to bring beefier mechs, deathball, and roll over the Clams then that's on you. If I was flipped over to IS for this event I'd be wrecking shop with my Battlemasters, Whammies, etc.

Edited by Cyrion, 09 May 2017 - 01:01 AM.

[Gwahlur]

DrVoodooAUS, on 08 May 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

Hell I dropped as the clan pug with 8 from one guild and they(we) got whipped attacking boreal against a IS group from all different guilds. The IS group setup well defensively and simply traded better on very hard map to attack on, even for clan mechs.

Yeah, boreal vault is a terribly bad map, which just adds to the frustration when you end up attacking on that map 10 times in a row.

[Gwahlur]

Cyrion, on 09 May 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

If I was flipped over to IS for this event I'd be wrecking shop with my Battlemasters, Whammies, etc.

Prove it

[Valhallan]

To my fellow IS, just do Scouting for the rewards and forget about invasion after getting the 20, scouting gives far more matchscore for the time spent than invasion, it is also relatively more fair compared to invasion. There is really no reason to touch invasion at all after getting the 20 80 score matches.

[Jingseng]

I dunno. I think it'd be harder to mess up a 265 ton deck compared to 240.

But really, when you say 'mess up', that's a matter of builds and weapons loadouts, and so forth. Which has nothing to do with tonnage limits, only some to do with tech base (XL engines somewhat, Endo slots and DHS slots mostly), and overwhelmingly to do with how far your head is up your own dropship.

I don't really see how you can 'mess up' taking 2 battlemasters, a warhammer, and an irrelevant light mech. Or similar combination.

[Aleski]

I have drop two time before going to bed : two big victories for IS. Because team play, you know ?

But very often the match start and there is always IS players that are bitching around : "We're never going to win, it's impossisble" , "clams are OP, you see ? We should just rush to make it quick"... etc...etc...

And those players are playing badly and do not listen to the orders of the leaders. So we loose because some players have decided that we were having no chance to win. So annoying. I have more grief versus bad and cranky IS players than versus clams. They are not OP, you just need to fight knowing their weaknesses.

If it is that bad, just play quickly your 20 faction play attack and then do some scout. It's easy to brawl the clams in scout mode if you're not completely idiot. You will grab your 400 points in two or three matches. Not so bad if you want to grab MC, C-bills and Keys...

[Lupis Volk]

Musashi Alexander, on 09 May 2017 - 12:17 AM, said:

When you throw 12 clan pugs v 12 IS pugs together, odds are that the clan pugs will have a better set of drop decks. It's harder for a potato to mess up a clan drop deck. Unit v unit it's more balanced but clans probably still edge it a little.

Really? It baffles me that people still believe this myth. Potatoes will still potato no matter which side they are.

[Catra Lanis]

It's good for a new account that has 4 mechs. My alt. gets a much needed boon. My dropdeck on that account is a Stalker-4N, a K2, a Cent and a Raven 4X. I have only advanced Zoom on one of them and still I have qualified for the rewards in all matches but 1. Those 9x500 000 k and 9x25 MC that you loose isn't enough to convince me to drop the rest of the rewards.

[Nesutizale]

Just from reading the Title -> NO
While I can agree that IS side is difficult, sometimes even frustrating (single matches) I also had very good matches on IS side.
Just a few hours ago I had two matches where we destroyed the Clans, literaly. We had 27 mechs left on our side at the end.

Sure I also had matches quite the oposite but when I look at my list I had about 50% good matches. I don't think that is that bad?
Only time it got frustrating for me was when I had 3 bad matches in a row where we got stomped hard.
After that I had a 2 close matches (one loose, one win) and a real good match.

While I can see that Clan still wins more matches and it beeing realy hard, I didn't had the experiance that is was totaly off.

[Bud Crue]

Cyrion, on 09 May 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

I'd bet a trillion spacebucks that even after the Civil War patch, when the IS get oodles of new tech while the Clams get basically nothing, that the potato IS pilots will still be crying.

Of course they will. Because the imbalance will still be there.
Or wait...did they suddenly decide to make LFE just as tough and just as light as CXL or is it still 30% heavier?

The engine fragility/performance differences; and the crit/tonnage differences between weapons (and heat sinks) are the biggest imbalance issues in the game and while some new tech gets us closer to parity between IS and CLAN, clans still will have a mathematical/objective superiority here.

But who cares really?
I expect that a lot of folks will stay IS for a bit, just to see how bad the skills tree hits them, then how the new tech will, despite rationality, make them as good as clan tech (despite the still obvious inferiority of the engine choices, etc.). They will then very quickly conclude (if for some reason they haven't figured it out already (math, etc.)) that nothing has really changed. Some will then finally do the unthinkable: they will after all these years conclude that PGI really has no clue what they are doing here...and go Clan. This migration will affect the game very negatively in wait times, overt negativity on the forums and even twitter. Once the latter happens with sufficient frequency that even Russ has to acknowledge there is an issue, PGI will overcompenste and re-quirk the IS mechs to god tier levels (claiming data supports it) and thereby piss everyone off.
Again.

[TWIAFU]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 08 May 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

Go ahead and boycott yourself from 30,000 GXP, 24.5M C-bills, 925MC, 7 days premium time, 44 cache keys, and 2 mech bays.

That will teach PGI to give away free stuff....

[TWIAFU]

Musashi Alexander, on 09 May 2017 - 12:17 AM, said:

When you throw 12 clan pugs v 12 IS pugs together, odds are that the clan pugs will have a better set of drop decks. It's harder for a potato to mess up a clan drop deck. Unit v unit it's more balanced but clans probably still edge it a little.

What IS forgets, let's slip by, not yet noticed, or have not looked at it from another angle....

IS is not fighting Clan mechs. IS is fighting Clan weapons. Sounds odd, sure. But if IS pilots look at it differently, they may be able to make a 'breakthrough'.

IS is only fighting against a handful of weapons; ERPPC, Gauss, ERLL, and LRMs. Learn and adapt to beat those weapons and NOT play into their strengths and you will win. This works best in a group, of course, and with those that are willing to listen.

Take note of what you see in combat and what is used. Notice the patterns, they are glaringly obvious. Use those patterns to YOUR advantage. Turn that 'strength' against them and turn it into a weakness.

Turn that reliance against them.

[iLLcapitan]

Yes please, all T5 qp baddies stop the daily whine and boycott - I'll gladly wait 2 minutes longer if its against a decent opposition.

[HGAK47]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 08 May 2017 - 04:32 PM, said:

Go ahead and boycott yourself from 30,000 GXP, 24.5M C-bills, 925MC, 7 days premium time, 44 cache keys, and 2 mech bays.

Wasnt enough to even make me make a drop deck. I was tempted to try out FP but the combination of needing more modules like radar derp for my mechs, the total bittnerness on the forums and not having a clue made me just decide to stay in QP.

Im here to have fun and that doesnt sound like fun from what I have heard.

[ingramli]

I think in another way: the MC and other goodies may not be a good enough compensation for one's frustration who keep being stomped dropping in IS PUG team (and yes, i am talking about me, an average potato but able to afford buying some MCs with real cash)

Edited by ingramli, 09 May 2017 - 04:01 AM.

[Cyrion]

Bud Crue, on 09 May 2017 - 03:07 AM, said:

Of course they will. Because the imbalance will still be there.
Or wait...did they suddenly decide to make LFE just as tough and just as light as CXL or is it still 30% heavier?

The engine fragility/performance differences; and the crit/tonnage differences between weapons (and heat sinks) are the biggest imbalance issues in the game and while some new tech gets us closer to parity between IS and CLAN, clans still will have a mathematical/objective superiority here.

But who cares really?
I expect that a lot of folks will stay IS for a bit, just to see how bad the skills tree hits them, then how the new tech will, despite rationality, make them as good as clan tech (despite the still obvious inferiority of the engine choices, etc.). They will then very quickly conclude (if for some reason they haven't figured it out already (math, etc.)) that nothing has really changed. Some will then finally do the unthinkable: they will after all these years conclude that PGI really has no clue what they are doing here...and go Clan. This migration will affect the game very negatively in wait times, overt negativity on the forums and even twitter. Once the latter happens with sufficient frequency that even Russ has to acknowledge there is an issue, PGI will overcompenste and re-quirk the IS mechs to god tier levels (claiming data supports it) and thereby piss everyone off.
Again.

What I'm interested in is exactly what you make you happy?

Let's see, so far PGI has nerfed Clan ACs into the ground. They've nerfed PPCs. They've nerfed Gauss. They've nerfed XL engines which you're FORCED to take on everything but 2C mechs and assaults when you play as Clan. They've nerfed Clan laser heat, too, IIRC. The Stormcrow got axed from Scouting. Clans get 25 tons less per person in their drop decks. That's THREE 100 TON Assault mechs worth of extra weight you get.

Meanwhile, you've got IS mechs with 50% velocity buffs. Across the board energy heat/range/CD buffs. Massive ballistic buffs. Armor/structure buffs out the wazoo.

So, really, please. What exactly is it going to take?

I know. Let's let Clans only use feather pillows for weapons. Though I imagine you'd complain about being poked in the eye.

[Wattila]

IS is full of newbies just going for the participation rewards. One guy had an Urbie as a first mech and had nothing heavier than a Phoenix Hawk in his deck. However, he was smart enough to actually assemble a group and invite some people from LFG. Only played one match, but we won that one comfortably. Why can't everyone do that? I mean, if people used the full drop deck tonnage, ran decent builds, and talked to each other, IS would be giving the klanus a good fight.

I imagine the thought process goes something like this: When clans are winning, people like OP ***** and whine on the IS chat and forums. Once the IS units start the push close to the daily cutoff people go like "Yay IS is winning, I'm gonna go play now, derp" and drop in the PUG queue.

Still have a 100% win rate for group matches - and even PUG matches where I've been doing basic shot calling. Only losses have been PUG matches without a shot caller. Organization is OP, it seems.

Edited by Wattila, 09 May 2017 - 04:15 AM.

[ingramli]

Cyrion, on 09 May 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:

What I'm interested in is exactly what you make you happy?

Let's see, so far PGI has nerfed Clan ACs into the ground. They've nerfed PPCs. They've nerfed Gauss. They've nerfed XL engines which you're FORCED to take on everything but 2C mechs and assaults when you play as Clan. They've nerfed Clan laser heat, too, IIRC. The Stormcrow got axed from Scouting. Clans get 25 tons less per person in their drop decks. That's THREE 100 TON Assault mechs worth of extra weight you get.

Meanwhile, you've got IS mechs with 50% velocity buffs. Across the board energy heat/range/CD buffs. Massive ballistic buffs. Armor/structure buffs out the wazoo.

So, really, please. What exactly is it going to take?

I know. Let's let Clans only use feather pillows for weapons. Though I imagine you'd complain about being poked in the eye.

As long as IS mech still die from losing a ST (stop arguing the choice of STD engine please, it make no real sense to discuss about it for competitive game), there will be hardly any equality.