953 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

The 3050 balloons have been fixed, we can all sleep soundly now

[Marius Romanis]

MechsForTheMechGods, on 16 May 2017 - 06:30 AM, said:

[color=#3073F3]Modules purchased prior to December 3rd 2016 are being refunded in the form of General Skill Points (GSP), which can be consumed to unlock Skill Nodes for any 'Mech you wish.[/color]

What. The. ****.

Almost all of my modules were bought well before 2016 and now they are all gone into GSP.
All of those cbills and time to earn them, gone.
Also, can someone tell me how much it costs to use a single skill point to unlock a node?
I want to figure out how much I have lost.

45,000 cbills and ??? Xp (do a find search of 45,000 on page 1 and you can find the xp) or look at my notepad doc image on one of the most recent pages.

BTW you have 135 minutes to work out what you want to do and sell sell sell / lvllvllvl i suggest you get reading =p

Im in bed trying to sleep but my wife snores so loud =/

[Felicitatem Parco]

justcallme A S H, on 15 May 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

1. Yes, they are. Go read the patch notes. Clan mechs are getting quirks they did not have before. Heat gen & duration. Previously did not exist in clan space save for set of 8 quirks, which, still remain.

2. A EBJ/HBR under this new system becomes more agil than say a WHM. Therefore the EBJ/HBR do not even need to invest in agility. So how is a Clan mech sacrificing agility when they are gaining it?

3. There is no balance of tech in this patch. So what do we do then? Just, wait, hope?

I get what PGI are doing but you cannot break your game and leave it for months while you "get there". That is what is happening here.

1. The old Skill tree had heat generation and heat capacity skills, remember? And I read the entire clan quirks document. 99% of the quirk changes are red (reduced). You did not read the patch notes, AND you need to learn the difference between skills and quirks (quirks are assigned by developers, skills come from leveling Mechs).

Also, like I said before that you conveniently ignored, Clan Mechs are not getting more quirks than IS Mechs, and any additional skills they get access to comes at a cost (nobody gets the full skill tree, you only get 91 nodes so if you do buy firepower skills then you lose out on other skills that were either automatically part of the old tree or attainable through modules, like Radar Deprivation).

2. 65 ton Mechs are going to be more agile than 70 ton Mechs. Big surprise. Not by much, mind you, and that is perfectly reasonable. Do you think that 5 ton difference will be an end-game-doom-mechanic? Would you be happier if heaveir Mechs were more agile than lighter Mechs?

3. Yes, we wait. Typical PGI balancing procedure. If you don't remember the first implementation of ECM with the Raven then you don't know what balancing fail really means.

There is much to complain about, and other stuff that does not have to be complained about. I have gotten to the point where I know all balancing measures will take months and typically take longer than reasonable. But we don't have to contain about EVERYTHING they do.

[Michal R]

[Kaethir]

... anybody seriously asking the questions "Why the 400xp cost to re-activate a node?" or "They actually went live with it???"...

Really? Have you been paying attention for the last 4 months? This was coming in some form or another, and there was nowhere near the backlash after the 2nd PTS than the first, and the expectation of having an XP sink was in this the whole time - in fact, while there's been complaints, it's been one of the things complained about the least.

Honestly, there are only a couple of complaints that I really feel for. First, the refund calculations, which have been a mess from day 1. I think they came to a reasonable middle ground, for the most part, but I might not feel that way if I had more to gain/lose from the conversions. Second, and something I think they will really need to address, is the mechanics of operating the skill tree - too many clicks to do what should be relatively small operations. The ability to select something farther down the tree and fill in behind it, or to save and reload configurations, or other similar changes, are really needed.

MechsForTheMechGods, on 16 May 2017 - 06:30 AM, said:

Also, can someone tell me how much it costs to use a single skill point to unlock a node?
I want to figure out how much I have lost.

NOTHING. It costs nothing to use a skill point to unlock a node.

It costs CBills and XP to acquire skill points (unless you got them from the conversion). It costs skill points (and only skill points) to unlock new nodes. It costs XP (and only XP) to re-activate a node after you deactivate it. It gets confusing because there are multiple buckets for SP (SP, HSP, GSP) multiple ways to end up paying for skill points (they all involve CBills and XP of one kind or another), and multiple buckets for XP with different restrictions on how they can be used, but these are the only costs involved in the skill tree.

[dario03]

So if modules are being compensated via GSP then shouldn't GSP have a resale value? You can sell modules for 50%. So shouldn't GSP have a cbill resale value of at least 22,500cb?
That should be the case, but I see no mention of it. Is it not a thing?

[MechsForTheMechGods]

Oh bloody hell. I'm away for work this whole week.

Not worried about XP though. For example, I have over 500,000 mech xp on my CN9-D. Would really rather have back the cbills I used to buy those modules. Instead I'm getting essentially 45,000 cbills back per module.

It takes only 1 game to earn (at the least) 2x that, but my modules that cost me millions of cbills and many hours of game time are now worth 45,000 cbills and 800xp each.

Great, just great.....

[HGAK47]

Quirks attempted to address bad weapon mount locations did they not? How can balancing baseline tech help mechs with weak hardpoint locations?

Anyway thanks for the Skill Tree. Its going to be fun times the next week or two trying to work everything out. I just really wish you guys left the PTS #2 up for much longer or gave us a final PTS 3 to test things but hey its going to be here soon and it will bring some enjoyment im sure!

If the quirk list from PTS 2 is anything to go by then pubs get ready for it!

[Kaethir]

MechsForTheMechGods, on 16 May 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

It takes only 1 game to earn (at the least) 2x that, but my modules that cost me millions of cbills and many hours of game time are now worth 45,000 cbills and 800xp each.

NO.

They are worth a number of skill points equal to their cost divided by 45k. So a 6,000,000 CBill module is worth 133.3 SP. Read the notes.

[MovinTarget]

dario03, on 16 May 2017 - 06:56 AM, said:

So if modules are being compensated via GSP then shouldn't GSP have a resale value? You can sell modules for 50%. So shouldn't GSP have a cbill resale value of at least 22,500cb?
That should be the case, but I see no mention of it. Is it not a thing?

That's not the reasoning.

You spent cbills for mech enhancements (modules). They at first announced that we were getting a full refund in cbills for said mech enhancements, but as the Skill Tree morphed with the PTS, they decided all pre-announcement modules will be refunded as GSP instead of cbills to counter the cost of respeccing.

So they basically refunded your incompatible mech enhancements with compatible mech enhancements. Yes it sucks if you were expecting a full cbill refund as per the original announcement, but in some ways this would have made more sense if it were done from the beginning since its a fair translation of enhancement->enhancement.

Yes, some will kvetch but people who invested in mechs instead of modules will *never* get a 100% cbill refund, will they? Bought weapons? you get a 100% refund for that?

When you bought modules pre-Dec 3rd, were you thinking to yourself "I can't wait to get multiple years usage out of these modules and fully expect PGI to one day give me every cent back!"?

No, you didn't. People latched on to the idea of a 100% refund and they would rather see the skill tree not improve and keep the cbills rather than have the understanding that this was done as a fair(er) compromise between those that invested in mech enhancements and those that did not.

So you can take the GSP (I'll find a use for the 20k+ GSP I'm getting) or you can play the new mini-game "Try to guess with modules I can sell that wouldn't be refunded for 100%"

I lobbied for the GSP to have a resale value, but its not happening... at least not yet.

Edited by MovinTarget, 16 May 2017 - 07:07 AM.

[Marius Romanis]

MechsForTheMechGods, on 16 May 2017 - 06:58 AM, said:

Oh bloody hell. I'm away for work this whole week.

Not worried about XP though. For example, I have over 500,000 mech xp on my CN9-D. Would really rather have back the cbills I used to buy those modules. Instead I'm getting essentially 45,000 cbills back per module.

It takes only 1 game to earn (at the least) 2x that, but my modules that cost me millions of cbills and many hours of game time are now worth 45,000 cbills and 800xp each.

Great, just great.....

Edited by CadoAzazel, 16 May 2017 - 01:46 PM.

[I cant want to]

1 radar dep + 1 seismic + 2 weapon mods (if all purchased before mechcon) gives enough GSP to "master" 4 brand new mechs in the new system, with points left over

Edited by chaothulhu, 16 May 2017 - 07:15 AM.

[Catra Lanis]

Well this sucks balls. I'm not opposed to a skilltree per se but the implementation and the timing sucks. IS will be in the gutter. Sure they'll try to balance but that's the issue. When will it happen. IS will be roflstomped for 4 weeks, then maybe, just maybe they'll changes the values and we'll get a bit closer. Then it's 4 weeks more...

Long story short. It'll be late autumn before we are even close to the current balance. Half the game will be broken for 6 months at minimum. Do they think that roughly half the playerbase will tolerate being punching bags for so long? No they'll either go Clan or go to another game.

[MechsForTheMechGods]

Kaethir, on 16 May 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

NO.

They are worth a number of skill points equal to their cost divided by 45k. So a 6,000,000 CBill module is worth 133.3 SP. Read the notes.

Oh I see. Thanks for explaining it.
Which post is that from because I didn't see that when reading the Skill Tree Q&A or the patch notes.

Sorry for all the questions, haven't really been following the forums since last year. Been too busy with work.

[Rodrigo Martinez]

invernomuto, on 16 May 2017 - 06:27 AM, said:

Because they're moving those quirks from mechs to weapon stats. Mostly next month.

How? I would like to see variety of skill trees for different mechs. Like you have to unlock quirks. Or you mean PGI will rework all quirks with the new weapon stats?

[NocturnalBeast]

Kurbeks, on 16 May 2017 - 04:34 AM, said:

All those IS puggies gona get creamed so hard. Lucky for players with Clan mechs.

I will be in IS Mech.

[Tordin]

About freaking time! Gonna sit down and read through all of this with some cups of COFFEE! Then process all of it and give a opinion later..



Anyway I do however bet there will be frustration from the showstoppers ( Info Warfare and ED were BOTH the community and PGI fault) and some of the most competive saltcriers. To feel better, they can now focus their anger on complaining and nitpick about how it will ruin their non adaptive meta, how they can throw as much bile at PGI to force em bend over and make the game for them only, no generalist builds allowed, heresy to use lurms and small lasers and so on and so forth

In the end. Who knows how this will turn out? For better, for worse or as a equal but more interesting/ deeper/ more potential kind of, "fairer" side grade system, Im just glad the ST now will be hardlocked into the game once and for all, lets deal with the salt and sugar later.

Also nice to see Paul daring to have responded regarding the patch wait and such. He might have slipped into the dangerzone of critique by the community before (and now, yeah HELLO Redditers, I stalk you daily!), maybe he will indeed open hes eyes more and improve communication (what do I know, I werent playing when the shitstorm hailed at him as worst, MG nerf the final catalyst?)

But also the freaking whiners, black knights and doomsday folks. Better straighten up as well. Its destructive as all hell to undermine, throw **** around, accuse, attack opinions, even those opinions that are open minded about change and not white knighty zealot opinions.
That reminds me,... yeah the blind white knights and bootlickers arent better, which can do everything to hush down worthy critique of bad decicions PGI does. Why, just WHY?? Nothing of those crazy forum wars help improve the community, the game and PGI.

[Steinkrieg]

Ulvar, on 16 May 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

i find it quite dramatic to annouce your quit some hours before the patch comes out. maybe it gets that bad maybe not i can tell tomorrow.



you are losing nothing with these old modules as you get more out of it than you invested (in form of global skill points which are worth ep and credits). of course you can't buy new mechs for it but you can level evey mech with it.

You absolutely DO NOT get more out of them than you invested. The value of a module is in it's usage, not the cost associated with the purchase. Or did you not move your modules around to other mechs? All mechs owned could run one radar dep, one seismo, etc. You really think that getting a finite number of HSP as a refund for an item that had a one time purchase cost of c-bills and gxp that you could use on every mech you owned is a fair trade? Really?

[justcallme A S H]

Prosperity Park, on 16 May 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

1. The old Skill tree had heat generation and heat capacity skills, remember? And I read the entire clan quirks document. 99% of the quirk changes are red (reduced). You did not read the patch notes, AND you need to learn the difference between skills and quirks (quirks are assigned by developers, skills come from leveling Mechs).

Nah totally forgot about unlocking that for each mech.

However, it did have duration and range anywhere? Oh yeah, that is right, it didn't!

The old system - mechs had access to the same stuff. However IS is now losing a significant Heat Gen / Duration quirk base while clan is picking it up.

The GHP 5P loses duration quirk yet a EBJ Laser Vom can now pick up duration and heat gen. It is not just "oh but both mechs get the quirks"... it is the NETT CHANGE EFFECT that is the issue here. Balance was, for all intents and purposes, not bad. You had a reason to run IS mechs. Now, you don't.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 16 May 2017 - 07:42 AM.

[invernomuto]

Rodrigo Martinez, on 16 May 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

How? I would like to see variety of skill trees for different mechs. Like you have to unlock quirks. Or you mean PGI will rework all quirks with the new weapon stats?

Devs stated in skill tree Q&A that they want to address balance with base tech stats instead of quirks. So they are reducing quirks in this patch and they're revisiting energy weapon stats next month. Skill tree is for more customization of mech builds, not balance...

Edited by invernomuto, 16 May 2017 - 07:47 AM.