953 replies to this topic

[RavinMadd]

So first impression is it looks extremely complicated and could scare off new and old players alike.

Also, why do I have to unlock things I don't want to get to the things I do want? This really makes no sense.
Who thought that making this thing a convoluted mess was a better idea than simple linear progression that goes something like: Heat Management 1 leads to --> HM2 which surprise surprise leads to --> HM3 and so on and so forth.

And why cap the number of nodes? If you have the xp, why can't you unlock everything? (Ok that one might make somethings a little unbalanced, but that should all be figured out in an extensive TESTING PHASE, not after you push it to live)

So this really just leads to 2 trains of thought:

1) You really really had no other ideas on how to improve/fix something that wasn't really broken. Did it allow for a lot of customization...no, but it was easily understood and usable. There's already plenty of customization in the game with the various hardpoints and omnipods. Or...

2) This is just a test bed for MW5 and you are going to some how use it as a proof of concept, probably to get more funding from some big game company because you guys realized you are in over your heads.

Either way, I am not going to completely quit playing but I will be drastically reducing my play time until things get sorted out.

Why did you guys waste your time on this when you could have been working on fixing collision so we could get mechs like the Axeman/Hatchetman and others with melee weapons that are a big part of the BattleTech Universe.

Edited by RavinMadd, 16 May 2017 - 03:11 PM.

[Knight2416]

OK so I am still trying this but my LRM 3f stalker now has 1035 range instead of 1100, speed dropped from 63-65 kph to 57kph.

Still I will see how 4n and 5M go

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Ed Steele, on 16 May 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

Yes, but those same players no longer have to buy and level two additional variants that they don't want. Basically you will spend the same amount of time levelling one variant as it did to level 3.

Which means if you really wanted those 3 variants rather than just the one, you now have 3 times the grind...a boon for single mech buyers, a bust for multiple mech packages.

[AncientRaig]

While I'm not entirely opposed to the new skill tree, I am opposed to how we went from 13 skills to 237. The sheer size of the skill tree is daunting. Was there really no way to make the firepower tree smaller? This is nuts. My college statistics classes have tables that are easier to understand than this tangled mess.

While I understand that PGI wants to make the grind longer so people spend more money, yadda yadda yadda, think of the newer players. The game as it was is already a daunting game to get into. Finding the right mech, finding the right build, learning how to play with and against the meta, mastering "simple" things like torso twisting, all those little skills that we long-time players know well. Now any new players coming in not only have to figure out all that, but this monster of a skill tree as well. With such a limited number of points, even I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

Edited by Sidefire, 16 May 2017 - 02:48 PM.

[Volag]

LikeUntoGod, on 16 May 2017 - 02:20 PM, said:

That is the kicker for me. You are changing everything and forcing me to gets things I do not want for those I do.

I simply do not understand it. It could be simple, but you had to make it difficult.

I'm not up for this. I'll check back in a few weeks. I'm not trying to be a drama queen but I play this game because it is simple, I have other games I've been wanting to try.

I'm with you man, i'm going to leave for a few weeks and hope this mess fixes itself...

[Kael Posavatz]

And I am unsure of the reason for Mech Mastery Packs (or whatever they are called now) except for a reason for

[NocturnalBeast]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 16 May 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Which means if you really wanted those 3 variants rather than just the one, you now have 3 times the grind...a boon for single mech buyers, a bust for multiple mech packages.

True, but the advantage is that you can tailor the bonuses you get for each build / variant...AKA min-maxing, which people either love to do, or love to read about the min-maxing other players have done.

[AncientRaig]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 16 May 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Which means if you really wanted those 3 variants rather than just the one, you now have 3 times the grind...a boon for single mech buyers, a bust for multiple mech packages.

I definitely won't be buying any new mech packs until they either fix or remove this ****. I don't want to be spending the same amount of time I would for 9 mechs just to get 3 skilled up, assuming I make 0 mistakes in picking my skills.

[NocturnalBeast]

RavinMadd, on 16 May 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

So first impression is it looks extremely complicated and could scare off new and old players alike.

This has been said about every aspect of MWO since the dawn of MWO. If people want to play a dumbed down shooter, there are plenty of them out there, even some with "Mechs'".

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Ed Steele, on 16 May 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

Excuse me, it also includes the time it would take to fully unlock three or four modules and gives you bonuses equivalent to three or four modules.

Except with having only 91 active nodes, I am probably going to ditch the sensor category, which has a lot of the previously used modules, just to get heat, mobility and defense back to where it was before the skill tree, and possibly have enough points left to just focus on one weapon type on the weapons tree, which means boating rather than diversity. So the 91 active nodes can exclude what you had earned previously for modules, unless you sacrifice some other area that affects your mech or weapons directly. They specifically reduced the overall benefits you get from the new skill tree in order to increase time-to-kill, to drag out the matches a bit longer by making mechs a bit less powerful overall.

Edited by Sarsaparilla Kid, 16 May 2017 - 03:23 PM.

[NocturnalBeast]

Sidefire, on 16 May 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

I definitely won't be buying any new mech packs until they either fix or remove this ****. I don't want to be spending the same amount of time I would for 9 mechs just to get 3 skilled up, assuming I make 0 mistakes in picking my skills.

Or you wait until Smurfy adds a skill point calculator to their mechlab and you figure it out there first.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Ed Steele, on 16 May 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

This has been said about every aspect of MWO since the dawn of MWO. If people want to play a dumbed down shooter, there are plenty of them out there, even some with "Mechs'".

Did you have any names? Of course, Madden NFL is coming out soon.

[DevlinCognito]

I know you guys in PGI don't read these forums because mean words are upsetting, but this skill tree is an absolute mess. I mean I shouldn't be surprised, you guys have a history of taking bad ideas and making them worse, but this ... this is awful.

[AncientRaig]

Ed Steele, on 16 May 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

Or you wait until Smurfy adds a skill point calculator to their mechlab and you figure it out there first.

I don't see how that's going to help me with the tripled grind.

Ed Steele, on 16 May 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

This has been said about every aspect of MWO since the dawn of MWO. If people want to play a dumbed down shooter, there are plenty of them out there, even some with "Mechs'".

Except this time it may be true. There's 237 skills now. That's madness.

[Mordale]

SO WHEN DOES THE HOT PATCH COME OUT TO FIX THIS PILE OF JUNK!

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

This giant spiderweb skill tree could have worked if there were maybe 20 mechs in the game with two variants each. But with close to 80 mechs in the game with between 3-8 variants each, there's no way in hell that people have the cbills, finger stamina or patience to unlock 100+ skills for so many mechs.

It seems like they've designed their system around players who only want to own 5 meta mechs in their garage. That's fine for competitive types, but those of us who want to own a large number of mechs for variety's sake or because they love the lore are basically screwed by this new system.

Unfortunately, PGI's business model has always revolved around selling mech packs and mech bays, which this new skill tree heavily discourages buying. Seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot a bit.

By making EVERYTHING in the game cost cbills, maybe this whole skill tree revamp is a conscious effort by PGI to make premium time subscriptions the core of their business model because it requires less work on their part and ensures a more consistent monthly income? That would explain why they removed the ability to bank premium time with the newest mech packs.

Edited by Rat of the Legion Vega, 16 May 2017 - 03:09 PM.

[Horseman]

pyrocomp, on 16 May 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

So no, the complexity is welcome. And in this case the effects are openly described. How they'll work together is another question. Just to mention that in one of the hack-and-slash RPGs it took players 3 or 4 years to find the way (passive skills, active skills, gear and execution style) that allowed to achieve 60 times higher damage. Note, 3 years of much more players than a few thousands here. This is a part of the gamplay. Success should be a combination of gear (loadout), skills and execution (plus some luck on map and opponent), not just one-button-suits-all.

You're making the same mistake as PGI here: assuming large number of nodes in the skill tree equals complexity and that complexity equals depth.
The Skill Tree could have done the same exact job with less than half this amount of nodes, and its' results still boil down to a handful of numeric buffs rather than any interesting effects (hel-lo, Inferno SRM anyone?). On the UI side, it's a nightmare to use and impossible to tell at a glance what exact buffs do you have applied to the current mech.
It could - should - have been done better.

[NocturnalBeast]

LikeUntoGod, on 16 May 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

Did you have any names? Of course, Madden NFL is coming out soon.

I am not sure if Hawken is still around, but Overwatch, the new Call of Duty and Titanfall 1 & 2 all have "Mechs'" of sorts. Also, by the way, if you like fantasy games and Football, then check out Blood Bowl if you have not already.

Sidefire, on 16 May 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

I don't see how that's going to help me with the tripled grind.


Except this time it may be true. There's 237 skills now. That's madness.

Ok, I will concede that PGI should allow you to try your skill build out for a few games, or at least on the training grounds before you commit to spending the points. Overall, though, 237 skills is not that bad, have you ever played Path of Exile?

[Torezu]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 16 May 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

They specifically reduced the overall benefits you get from the new skill tree in order to reduce time-to-kill, to drag out the matches a bit longer by making mechs a bit less powerful overall.

I'm pretty sure you meant increase TTK, which I wholeheartedly support. I get tired of corner-poking and having half my side blown off, or getting into a brawl, having someone from the other side join, and realizing that I have no option to even think about disengaging because it's already over.

Sidefire, on 16 May 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

I don't see how that's going to help me with the tripled grind.

How is the grind tripled? You need maybe 20k more XP to completely master a mech, and the c-bills you're putting into the skill process is the equivalent of buying modules, only...cheaper.

Edited by Torezu, 16 May 2017 - 03:10 PM.

[Horseman]

Rebel Ace Fryslan, on 16 May 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

So why did we wanna have this all implemented
Or was it a solution that was looking for a problem

We didn't. Both PTS instances consistently received overwhelmingly negative feedback for the UI, UX and new player experience - feedback that has been almost entirely ignored.

Edited by Horseman, 16 May 2017 - 03:23 PM.