953 replies to this topic

[Mycroft000]

Actually I think I would be more likely. As it is, I pretty much universally don't spend MC, and now that I don't anticipate needing premium time due to 10kGSP sitting in the bank, I don't expect to spend much money on the game for a year or so.

[KingKickAss85]

MovinTarget, on 26 May 2017 - 03:22 AM, said:

I gave some examples, but thete are lots of mechs that have low engine caps, mostlty IS, but even some clan lights and mediums with locked engines.

Thing is, there isn't one solution as long as *all* agility is lumped together.
I can see speed/accel/deccel being functions of engine size to some degree (monster truck and race car could use the same engine with different transmissions to achieve different results), but torso twisting/torso speed?

Yeah the speed/accel/decel should definitely be tied to engine size. However that doesn't mean assaults can or should go like formula 1's, nor should lights be able to go light speed nor should they get nerfed to be slower. They just need to be able to literally accel/decel faster than they normally would (based on engine size and only up to a certain percentage) and have increased speed (also known as speed tweak) available through a node(s).

As for the torso twist and twist speed, I'm a 50/50 either way. If it's tied to engine size, fine. If it's done through a node(s), I'm fine with that as well. What would be really cool is if they would implement some of the mobility tech from Lore, like triple strength myonmer, which makes mechs go even faster and improved gyros (not to be confused with the skill we currently have) and bearings which literally make your mech turn faster and pivot faster. Opinions?

[MovinTarget]

It really depends on the definition of "engine".

For most modern vehicles there is a power plant and other parts like the transmission that take the "power" and determined how it is utilized.

So is a BT engine just a power plant or is it the entire power creation and delivery system?

That clarification would influence my feelings about engine desync.

[NocturnalBeast]

MovinTarget, on 27 May 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

It really depends on the definition of "engine".

For most modern vehicles there is a power plant and other parts like the transmission that take the "power" and determined how it is utilized.

So is a BT engine just a power plant or is it the entire power creation and delivery system?

That clarification would influence my feelings about engine desync.

From what I remember of Lore, this was always quite vague as the founders of BattleTech were obviously not mechanical or electronic engineers. To me, the engine of the Mech was a fusion plant (probably the only part of the Mech that is not possible to build with today's technology) that provided power to the various actuators that control the Mech's movement. Using modern analogs, it would seem to me that the mech uses actuators, electric motors and electromechanical 'myomer' to move the mech. If you follow this line of logic, the engine would affect the speed and maneuverability of the mech based on how much power is provided to each component.

But we can just use some sci-fi hand waving and accept that somehow the engine does not affect the maneuverability of the mech.

Edited by Ed Steele, 29 May 2017 - 12:18 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Ed Steele, on 27 May 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

From what I remember of Lore, this was always quite vague as the founders of BattleTech were obviously not mechanical or electronic engineers. To me, the engine of the Mech was a fusion plant (probably the only part of the Mech that is not possible to build with today's technology) that provided power to the various actuators that control the Mech's movement. Using modern analogs, it would seem to me that the mech uses actuators, electric motors and electromechanical 'myomer' to move the mech. If you follow this line of logic, the engine would affect influence the speed and maneuverability of the mech based on how much power is provided to each component.

But we can just use some sci-fi hand waving and accept that somehow the engine does not affect the maneuverability of the mech.

Ugh and this is where the scientist in mean can't shut up in my head and suspend disbelief... Because unless all constructions/myomers/actuators were created equally, you couldn't simply plug the same power plant into 2 different, equally classed mechs and expect them to perform the same.

Lamborghini made Humvee-type vehicles for years with basically the same engine as their sports cars. I'm going to take a wild guess and say they performed very differently in different environments. Yes, the chassis were different, but probably so was the drive train, suspension, etc.

I guess if they resync engines and agility, it can be handwaved away, but I can't believe it would be anything more valid than that: hand waving.

[Genesis23]

engine desync is one of the best things this game ever changed. because it does kinda make sense and is a much needed buff for mediums to perform as they should. since i started playing the game the place of the mediums was quite clear, but after the clans and the newer generation of heavies started to wreck **** up the mediums didnt fit in anymore imo.

why bother with a centurion or other mediums, if you can just use a heavy that may be not quite as fast, but with lots more armor and firepower?

the only reason the medium percentage was never as low as the light one is because lights are a bit uncomfortable to play, because clan mediums exist and because some mediums like shadowhawks still have a solid place as snipers or other specific playstyles.

now with the engine desync the mobility advantage of mediums is not only more clear, its now a factor to reconsider which ads a bit more of variety to the game. or at least has the potential to do so.

[Christo Jam]

Far too many changes. I am totally demoralized when I see these skills trees and these options. I much preferred when MWO was more streamlined and easy to use. I tested it and it's not my delirium. I have invested in this game from the beginning, even financially. This patch, sorry guys, I don't like it. If the biggest part of the community likes, you get better for you. I pass my turn, sorry. Good game to you my mechwarriors friend's from all galaxy (and more). Peace.

Edited by Christo Jam, 29 May 2017 - 01:49 AM.

[PeeWrinkle]

Ironically, even though I stated I was done with MWO until they fixed the skill tree, I hoped into the event this past weekend.

I could not pass up all the free stuff. It go me using the skill tree and playing the game. While I had fun playing, I have to say I am worried for the future of this game. Game balance between Clan and IS seems to have significantly increased with the skill tree. I hope my observations/experiences were incorrect, but if they aren't then the Civil War release is going to have to save the IS tech.

My experience from this past weekend, when I played both Clan and IS mechs was that Clan mechs were like playing the game in easy mode.
No matter how meta I tried to be with the IS mechs I could not get them to perform anywhere near the level of a Clan mech with an average build. In the past I would consistently hit between 350-450 damage and usually have a match score in the low 300's on average. Playing for close to 8 hours over the past few days I can tell you that on the Clan side I was almost always significantly above those numbers and on the IS side significantly below those numbers.

I would image most players are experiences the same type of results. If so the skill tree may kill IS tech.

Then I started to think about how glad I was that the rule of three is out of the game. I can level a single variant without having to get others and it was a great thought!
That thought led me to the following assumptions though. Only the best variants will be used in the future. There is no reason to buy anything other than an omnimech of a single variant. If you want another of that chassis, just by the same variant and you already have the XP to level most likely.
Omintech will rule, with a few exceptions being variants like the KDK-3 for example.
This potentially means no one will buy any of the current mech packs anymore, or at least they will a lot less. It as actually made the game significantly cheaper if you think about it. Or at least a lot easy to play without putting any money into it.

It also will most likely evolve to a point where you will see only the same 10 or 12 mech variants being played.

I hope I am not correct, but I have a very uneasy feeling about it when I think about it from that stand point.

[NocturnalBeast]

PeeWrinkle, on 29 May 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

My experience from this past weekend, when I played both Clan and IS mechs was that Clan mechs were like playing the game in easy mode.

I have found the opposite to be true, Clans overheat constantly while IS mechs can take ridiculous amounts of damage. Also IS lurms are rediculous now.

[MovinTarget]

Ed Steele, on 29 May 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

I have found the opposite to be true, Clans overheat constantly while IS mechs can take ridiculous amounts of damage. Also IS lurms are rediculous now.

My alt account that has only IS mechs has found its hot builds hotter, no matter if i get all the heat benefiting skills or not.

BUT, my quad LB10x Maulers, which run cool have been overpetforming compared to pre-skill tree... i had consecutive games of 1k+ damage and while i usual do "well", getting almost 1.3k damage while slower and hypothetically less agile seems... interesting.

I suspect everyones mileage will vary, though...

My point being that in my experience, it seems laser vomit is hotter in general, not just clan.

Edited by MovinTarget, 29 May 2017 - 02:49 PM.

[Jody Von Jedi]

The point is, we shouldn't have to reapply all of those skills. PGI should have distributed the skill points as we originally had them applied. Sure, they gave us this big bank of HXP or what ever it's called now, but all of the time and thought that went into leveling and outfitting the mechs with consumables and modules is gone.

[NocturnalBeast]

Jody Von Jedi, on 29 May 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

The point is, we shouldn't have to reapply all of those skills. PGI should have distributed the skill points as we originally had them applied. Sure, they gave us this big bank of HXP or what ever it's called now, but all of the time and thought that went into leveling and outfitting the mechs with consumables and modules is gone.

Really? Is it that hard to pick new skills? I spent about 15 minutes and re-skilled my three main mechs and I have played many games since then, not that bad if you ask me.

MovinTarget, on 29 May 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

My alt account that has only IS mechs has found its hot builds hotter, no matter if i get all the heat benefiting skills or not.

BUT, my quad LB10x Maulers, which run cool have been overpetforming compared to pre-skill tree... i had consecutive games of 1k+ damage and while i usual do "well", getting almost 1.3k damage while slower and hypothetically less agile seems... interesting.

I suspect everyones mileage will vary, though...

My point being that in my experience, it seems laser vomit is hotter in general, not just clan.

What I notice now is that with IS mechs, even if you unlock every range skill in the firepower tree, your lasers will not have a much range as they did before the patch. As far as heat, it really depends on what skills you choose firepower / survivability, or heat management (movement too if that matters to you).

[Jody Von Jedi]

Ed Steele, on 29 May 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

Really? Is it that hard to pick new skills? I spent about 15 minutes and re-skilled my three main mechs and I have played many games since then, not that bad if you ask me.

Yep, when you don't have much free time it is. I used to pop on and play a couple matches a night. Before I lost my job, I'd play much more. Now, I'm working out of town and don't have near the time I used to. That's not PGI's fault, but now what little free time I have is not as enjoyable as it was.

[NocturnalBeast]

Jody Von Jedi, on 29 May 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

Yep, when you don't have much free time it is. I used to pop on and play a couple matches a night. Before I lost my job, I'd play much more. Now, I'm working out of town and don't have near the time I used to. That's not PGI's fault, but now what little free time I have is not as enjoyable as it was.

My free time is quite limited as well, and spending maybe half- of one night's free time spec'ing a couple of mechs is not that bad, considering that I do not have to do it again and I can play many games without every having to re-spec.

[MovinTarget]

Ed Steele, on 29 May 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

What I notice now is that with IS mechs, even if you unlock every range skill in the firepower tree, your lasers will not have a much range as they did before the patch. As far as heat, it really depends on what skills you choose firepower / survivability, or heat management (movement too if that matters to you).

I'm starting to wonder if the combination of +cooldown/-Duration getting stacked on is what's doing this...

If I understand HS/DHS correctly they have 2 attibutes: How much heat they can negate from the get-go and how quickly they get rid of the excess heat. This is why when you fire beam weapons the first time, there is sometimes a moment before your heat starts increasing. Its because the first X points of heat encountered are absorbed instantly and the heat bar represents what it can't handle immediately...

So if my understanding is correct then it stands to reason that firing lasers with a -15% Duration quirk would be means you generate the same amount of heat, but in a shorter span of time (since your beam time is shorter) so you'll put heat on your HS/DHS at a faster rate. Couple that with a cooldown bonus and you are generating more heat over time since you are firing more often...

Could that at least be a contributing factor?

[WVAnonymous]

WVAnonymous, on 16 May 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

I don't have enough interest in the game at the moment to overcome the dread of clicking on 91*245 mechs = 22,295 little hexagons.

I'll check back in mid-June to see if the current skill tree is still in place.

Maybe this is the PGI business plan. I'm in possession of two years of premium time that may never get used.

Later.

WVA

OK, it's not completely horrible. I've gone through maybe 15 mechs and I can do an easy one in under 4 minutes (meaning no decisions) like a Hunchback or Mist Lynx. Ebon Jaguars I haven't even tried to do yet.

[MovinTarget]

WVAnonymous, on 29 May 2017 - 10:07 PM, said:

OK, it's not completely horrible. I've gone through maybe 15 mechs and I can do an easy one in under 4 minutes (meaning no decisions) like a Hunchback or Mist Lynx. Ebon Jaguars I haven't even tried to do yet.

And this is where, I suspect, they'll "get us"

You no longer will have to buy variants you don't want (at least when the option to buy them solo is there), so I'm guessing they are somewhat banking on us having variant situations where the same variant needs to be performing very different tasks such that you'll need copies of that one variant, each with it's own skill tree customized to it's needs.

[Kael Posavatz]

The more customizable a mech is, the bigger XP/c-bill drain it becomes. The bigger the drain it is, the more likely people are to go out and buy a copy. Ironically, it is a way to deincentivize mech-customization because it is too time-consuming and/or expensive to tinker.

[MovinTarget]

Kael Posavatz, on 30 May 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

The more customizable a mech is, the bigger XP/c-bill drain it becomes. The bigger the drain it is, the more likely people are to go out and buy a copy. Ironically, it is a way to deincentivize mech-customization because it is too time-consuming and/or expensive to tinker.

Depends.

In the grand scheme you can ask yourself, would you rather buy 3 mechs, 2 of which you only bought b/c of set of 3 rules or buy 2-3 of same variant because they are useful and so you can have optimized builds on each?

Edited by MovinTarget, 30 May 2017 - 03:33 PM.

[SirDubba]

I haven't bothered with buying modules for a long time because of the update, so I got a refund of 0 C-Bills... Thanks?

Well it doesn't matter too much. As long as building my 'Mechs is still fun

Edited by SirDubba, 04 June 2017 - 01:22 AM.