34 replies to this topic

[osmosys]

So I put a skill point in, applied that, and then respeced.

The node is still unlocked, but I have to pay to get it back either with xp or gxp.

I feel like the respec should be free. Now whenever we change load outs we have to pay to change the skills (but the nodes do remain unlocked).

Seems wrong to me. I feel like I get penalized for making a skill tree mistake, plus I can't test the tree in game. It's not flexible enough by far.

What does everyone else think?

[Scyther]

Everyone else thunked their thinks on this 2, 3, and 4 months ago. Opinions vary.

[Felbombling]

/shrug

You're not dealing with three Mechs to Master one any longer. I'll take this over that old system any day. For example, I bought a Medusa on sale months ago and won't have to work two more Vipers for the sake of optimizing the Medusa. That should save me nineteen million C-Bills right there on face value, not to mention the matches I'd need to play in the two other Vipers, respec costs, module costs, etc. I'm not complaining.

[sycocys]

I've only started tweaking one mech so far and I imagine at least for me it will start out with me buying most of the applicable weapons nodes and some leftover sensors and mobility stuff then tweaking over a bunch of matches.

[Khalcruth]

Shrug. It seems to me that if you buy a node, try it out, and don't like it, during the game you tried it out you should have got the XP to change it if it turns out you didn't like it. No real harm done.

I really don't understand the problem with having to actually play matches with your mechs. Isn't that kind of the point of the game?

[CFC Conky]

Khalcruth, on 16 May 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

Shrug. It seems to me that if you buy a node, try it out, and don't like it, during the game you tried it out you should have got the XP to change it if it turns out you didn't like it. No real harm done.

I really don't understand the problem with having to actually play matches with your mechs. Isn't that kind of the point of the game?

Exactly, even for a new player it shouldn't take too long until you are averaging 800xp and 45K c-bills per match to unlock a node, let alone the 400 xp needed to respec one. Say you only do half that, it's still only two matches to unlock/respec a node, which isn't that much of a grind.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[osmosys]

CFC Conky, on 16 May 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Exactly, even for a new player it shouldn't take too long until you are averaging 800xp and 45K c-bills per match to unlock a node, let alone the 400 xp needed to respec one. Say you only do half that, it's still only two matches to unlock/respec a node, which isn't that much of a grind.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

That's a good point but I was thinking of the task before me to properly spec a whole bunch of mechs, and reskill tons of them over the next few days.

oh well :/

[CFC Conky]

osmosys, on 16 May 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

That's a good point but I was thinking of the task before me to properly spec a whole bunch of mechs, and reskill tons of them over the next few days.

oh well :/

Yeah, that will be a bit of a grind. Being new, I don't have that 'luxury' .

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 16 May 2017 - 04:46 PM.

[oldradagast]

Respec costs have no place in a game like this which, quite frankly, is only still around in a large part because people can heavily customize their mechs as they wish.

Yes, yes - the respec cost is currently rather low (though it was originally higher), but that misses the point. It's bad business and while nothing but petty investment for long-time players like me, it's a kick in the face to new players who have almost in-game resources and who already are stuck trying to make sense of the skill maze, and who now need to contend with a respec cost on top of things.

Sure, other games have respec costs, too. But most of those games either aren't PvP, or don't have skill systems as insanely large and convoluted as this one. Take World Warships captain skills for example. They have respec costs, yes... but you also have to be trying to really screw up a captain build on a given type of ship in that game.

Whatever... I'm sure the respec costs will stay and will, as I said, have no real effect on long-time players while discouraging new players on top of the skill maze. Good thing we don't need them anyway.

Edited by oldradagast, 16 May 2017 - 04:55 PM.

[R Valentine]

Respec costs suck major balls.

[RabbidRabbitRapidFire]

Yeah, this just shafted me. I specced out a mech as much as I could, tried the spec out and decided to go in a different direction and lost all of those skill points. I like the new system, but this just put a bad taste in my mouth. The fact that this is a better system does not free it from criticism. There's no need to pay for something that has already been earned. At least make it apparent that respeccing will make you lose all your skill points.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Totally agree because having to pay for a respec kills experimentation.

People need to look at it this way. How would you like your mechs weapons and equipment to be locked to the mech the very first time you took the mech out to battle and then if you wanted to swap say a ER PPC for a LPL, you had to grind 3000 XP to do it? I think people would be screaming their heads off if this was the case however this is exactly the case with skill trees.

Example, I want to try out the JJ tree with my Heavy Metal so I drop 20 points into that tree to max it out, which is a significant investment of point. I then play maybe 2-3 matches and then decide I want to compare a few builds that don't mount JJs to see the difference. I deactivate those 20 nodes and use XP and C-bills to buy 20 different skills. After maybe 3-4 matches I decide that I like the JJ build better so I deactivate 20 nodes and go back to the JJ tree only to find that I have to grind out 8000 XP to respec back to JJs. What?

Now think about all the other builds you might want to experiment with. Maybe you want to see just how much of difference things are with a full sensor build then compare it against a full agility build. Then maybe you want to test a full survival build against a full weapons build. In each of those scenarios you are deactivating and activating 20,30, 40 maybe more nodes just to find what build works best for you and will likely require you to actually buy maybe 150-200 of the total nodes available in the trees in the first place. How many 100s of matches worth of XP are you going to need do that for ONE SINGLE MECH.

It is just ridiculous that after I spend that time and effort to unlock maybe 150-200 nodes so I CAN actually experiment that the second I want to change something around it is going to cost me even more XP.

[Pjwned]

It's pretty obvious that the intention is for you to have duplicates of a mech if you find yourself switching the loadout on it frequently, because that way you wouldn't need to swap stuff around.

That said however, being able to save equipment & module loadouts should have been added years ago, and now with the new skill tree there should be templates to easily save & load instead of making people go through a giant hassle every time they want to change something.

It's also unfortunately been a feature that's been requested for years and consistently ignored, so there's no reason to think it will be a feature in any remotely reasonable amount of time.

Edited by Pjwned, 17 May 2017 - 03:57 PM.

[Wyald Katt]

Pjwned, on 17 May 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

It's pretty obvious that the intention is for you to have duplicates of a mech if you find yourself switching the loadout on it frequently, because that way you wouldn't need to swap stuff around.

That's brilliant in that evil mastermind kinda way! Not helpful in the evil scientist experimenting with trying to get one mech working JUST right way tho.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Honestly? I couldn't care less about an XP cost for taking a node again. I mean, what use do you really have for XP on a 'mech once you get the 91+ nodes you want? I'm still bitter SP cost C-Bills, but that ship has sailed...

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Just wait until you totally stuff up and hit full respect and click apply. You then have to pay for every god dam node to reactivate.

ahhhhhhh 91 * 400 is a big hit for a 1 click mistake.

[Marius Romanis]

osmosys, on 16 May 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

That's a good point but I was thinking of the task before me to properly spec a whole bunch of mechs, and reskill tons of them over the next few days.

oh well :/

Do not level every mech in your stable..... there are more massive changes coming over the next 2-3 months

Level a "core group" of mechs

For me that was 4 clan and 4 innersphere mechs for solo dropping into FP/CW
4 clan and 4 IS mechs for a teamwork will happen 12 man drop deck
1 QP Fun mech
1 Comp op mech

18 mechs of my 110. 92 mechs are on holiday for 3 months.

Edited by CadoAzazel, 17 May 2017 - 04:16 PM.

[Wyald Katt]

How about 400 xp for carte blanche respecin' nya?

But dang, what you do wrong?

[Nightmare1]

osmosys, on 16 May 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

So I put a skill point in, applied that, and then respeced.

The node is still unlocked, but I have to pay to get it back either with xp or gxp.

I feel like the respec should be free. Now whenever we change load outs we have to pay to change the skills (but the nodes do remain unlocked).

Seems wrong to me. I feel like I get penalized for making a skill tree mistake, plus I can't test the tree in game. It's not flexible enough by far.

What does everyone else think?

I think you should have tried the PTS before blindly jumping in feet first, lol.

[Grayseven]

Right now it may seem to be a pain. Later, after you've played 30 matches or so in a mech, not so much.

At some point, you will have more xp than you can use on any given mech and you will be able to respec at will without worrying about the xp you are spending.

Right now, since it's really new...

If you are a mediocre player you should be able to get 1000 xp per match easily. That's a new skill point per match.