655 replies to this topic

[Nik Van Rhijn]

We seem to have 20 pages going around the same points. A number of the people arguing for "limited" customisation are not saying no customisation. Just that it should have consequences in cost and time. This is not a primarily single player offline game where time constraints for customisation make no sense. If you get a mech with limited changes (ie drop a few SL's or MG's for more armour/ammo/heatsinks then it would make sense to have the HUD have Catapult 2K? come up. If you have made enough money totally change the mech ie FF, double heatsinks, XL etc then it should come up ??? (or "Frankenmech" in red ). Not only should it cost an arm and a leg to pay for it (plus the waiting time for it to be built from scratch) but it should cost a fortune to repair.

Testing a game to get the balance right so that the majority of people will enjoy it is difficult. Throw in the ability for people to make any variation and permutation of components they can think of immediately and it gets exponentially harder.
We will have a mechlab and it will be what PGI thinks is right for the game in the time frame we have.
What I don't think we'll have is either MW3 or 4 versions in cost or timescale.
What we will have hopefully is something that makes the game fun and playable.

[Grimm Liberty]

*incoming transmission*
1) based on the stipulated time scale of 1:1 this is a red herring poll.
2) illusion of choice to make people "happy" is stupid game design.
3) IF you are going to allow customization, allow Full customization within the rule set.
4) That is all.
*transmission ended*

[MaddMaxx]

Dihm, on 04 January 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

Sure you can do time, we aren't going to be limited to one mech, so you'll just have to play with your others while the mech you want to customize is being worked on. Swapping a weapon? 20-30 minutes. Tons of changes? They all add up, but there is a max limit of an hour or something.

Access to better facilities than the minimum lower the time.

So what your saying, not sure your source though, is that it has been confirmed that on day 1 we will be able to BUY, Rent or Borrow more than one Mech?

If not than what happens after the first Battle and your repairs equal the Max 1 hour time?

Choices would be :

1) Get your wallet out.

2) Wait 20-30 minutes between drops?

3) or Wait the Full Hour between drops?

Wait times are bad...and I would be willing to wait myself, but many would not.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 04 January 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[Grimm Liberty]

*incoming transmission*
1) F2P model invoked.
2) BUY what you need.
3) Company makes profit.
4) That is all.
*transmission ends*

[Dihm]

MaddMaxx, on 04 January 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

So what your saying, not sure your source though, is that it has been confirmed that on day 1 we will be able to BUY, Rent or Borrow more than one Mech?

If not than what happens after the first Battle and your repairs equal the Max 1 hour time?

Choices would be :

1) Get your wallet out.

2) Wait 20-30 minutes between drops?

3) or Wait the Full Hour between drops?

Wait times are bad...and I would be willing to wait myself, but many would not.

I said nothing about there being a real life wait time for repairs. If you constantly want to be swapping out your weapons between matches, that's the price you pay. Want to cut down on the time it takes? Gives you incentive to work with your faction/merc unit to conquer those good factory worlds.

The assumption that you'll have more than one mech seems pretty much a sure bet.

[MaddMaxx]

Dihm, on 04 January 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

I said nothing about there being a real life wait time for repairs. If you constantly want to be swapping out your weapons between matches, that's the price you pay. Want to cut down on the time it takes? Gives you incentive to work with your faction/merc unit to conquer those good factory worlds.

The assumption that you'll have more than one mech seems pretty much a sure bet.

What "Time" were you speaking of then? The post I quoted used the word Time more than once, with specific time frames noted.

How could one not infer you meant real time?????????

Edited by MaddMaxx, 04 January 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

I'm thinking this thread needs to be put on hold at the moment, after reading the Dev Blog 2 and the bit about Modules.

Trying real hard to withold judgement until we know more, but at the moment, my inclination is to walk away.

[MaddMaxx]

Kristov Kerensky, on 04 January 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

I'm thinking this thread needs to be put on hold at the moment, after reading the Dev Blog 2 and the bit about Modules.

Trying real hard to withold judgement until we know more, but at the moment, my inclination is to walk away.

It is the "Information Warfare" blog. Your not confusing that with mech Building/Customization are you? They even went so far as to detach the two by stating the Modules will not use Slots or Weight like other components do. They will use up "Space" which I am assuming is Cockpit console space.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 04 January 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

That's why I'm trying to withhold judgement at the moment, the phrasing is disturbing though, I'm hoping for something more concrete soon..the basics should already be known and in the code, this halfassed method of releasing info is NOT making for happy campers. Just look at the phrasing..Modules allow players to customize their Battlemechs with functionality without having to deal with the existing slots and tonnage rules..ok, so..these things don't apply to the BTech standards even though those ARE being used..or those BTech standards were kicked to the curb and this is what's happening instead...which is it? I know what I'M seeing it as, it's why I'm about to walk away and forget all about PGI and MWO, but I'm willing to give PGI a chance to step up and CONFIRM one way or the other on that, cause talk about being unclear and confusing. The blog goes on to say that Modules are what's used to customize the Mech as long as there space..and there are levels of them..unlocked by pilot tree skills..important part of ROLE Warfare..again, this is all as clear as mud, could be read either way, and that's just really bad PR work..unless you actually don't have anything working and want to CYA in case none of what you want to do can be done..which just makes me want to walk away even more. Which is it..people not being any good at PR or being GOOD at PR?

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I agree with Maxx - it seemed to me that they were talking about a totally new way of configuring the mechs built in electronics/computers without haveing to use up weight or space as you do with BAP, TAG, Guardian etc that would be customised depending on your role. I also got the impression that they will have a number of "modules" to allow expansion and additions at a later date after the game starts.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Nik, had they stated that modules were an important part of Information Warfare..yes, I'd see that and wouldn't be worried..but they were clear that modules are an important part of ROLE Warfare. That is what is getting me worried..the phrasing being used, it's vague and it's something I expect to see from PR weasels, not devs..and that worries me.

[Heronimus Bosch]

Kristov, I understand that the lack of info on ROLE warfare raises doubts in your mind, but do not forget the important part on the opening sentence.

Quote: ", we needed a new layer of customization. " Unquote.

I predict that these modules only serve for the information/electronic warfare element of the ROLE Warfare

Edited by Heronimus Bosch, 04 January 2012 - 01:20 PM.

[Alekto Serenis]

I understood it more like the ability to customize the Mech's Computer system's, like in some books where pilots modified their systems to fit their mechs even more and on a rather affordable level compared to refits on the chassis (and some do both)

If they, as i assume, put that in its great news and a nice addition to mech customization


Highlander drop style ecm please? I wanna blow pipes all over the com to confuse my enemys during a low orbit combat drop

[Kristov Kerensky]

Heronimus, that's why I'm waiting for more concrete information. Vague phrasing, phrasing that implies many things without actually saying anything directly..it's PR speak and it really worries me. That blog was obviously written by a PR weasel, so were the dev responses MADE vague in a CYA move by a weasel..or were the responses just that vague anyway and the weasel is trying to cover that up? I'm not getting any happy thoughts from the entire thing, I'm getting happy thoughts from parts of it(LOS/D system, jamming, etc) and real unhappy thoughts from other parts(Modules, important part of ROLE warfare). Recon Mechs use specialized sensors and jammers, Command Mechs use C3 Masters, Brawlers don't use either, so why would modules be important to them if sensors were all they covered? A C3 slave..sure..but that's not that big of a deal and it's not even going to be around when the game starts, those are a year off for the DCMS at the least, longer for the rest of the IS, so...what in the hells are these modules if they are so important to Role Warfare?

I'm getting a LCD approach, MW4 style customization, and lots of grand plans for down the road. I can deal with the grand plans down the road, but the LCD and MW4 bits..no, no way in hell will I submit myself to that again, I hated MW4, I wasn't alone or MWO would be MW7 or MW8.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I'm fairly certain that these modules for "Role Warfare" would also focus on the electronics side of things. It may be that "brawlers" would have plug-ins to focus their crosshairs faster, improve their AMS or any number of other "tweaks" that would enhance the mech for it's intended role.

[Heronimus Bosch]

Kristov, the Devs have stated several times that they will only release information that they consider beta release ready. So the information at the moment is scarce but to start assuming the worst on the basis of scarcity is not fair towards the Dev team. Ask questions in the Q&A and maybe be pleasantly by the answers of the Devs.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Nik, there's no such electronics packages in the IS at the time of MWO, no Targeting Computers(Clan only Tech, IS doesn't make it until 3062), no C3 systems(3050, DCMS only for a bit), and that's it for allowing the Brawlers to be better at their role, which is putting the hurt on the enemy. This is what worries me, modules are important part of Role Warfare, but I'm not seeing how electronic packages benefit Brawlers since the electronics that DO help them don't exist in the timeline that PGI is using.

Heronimus, I know, and I do appreciate that, but they are also tossing out info that's clearly NOT going to be in at launch(they state that in the blog) and they are making vague statements on things that evidently are going to be in at launch, like Modules. I'll check the Q&A list to see if my concerns are addressed by someone else, if not, I'll voice them myself..I've obviously got no issues doing that

*edit*
Module question answered, overlay not supplanting the standard BTech system, which is what's being used..joy oh joy!

So..now we know..what's used in BTech is what PGI is doing for MWO..critical slots, tonnage, and all that entails. NO hardpoint systems, no bs made up LCD solutions to make it easy to use..ah..yes...so happy to learn that. And with the extra depth the modules will add, wow..really getting more excited then I was about MWO..wife is gonna HATE this game

Edited by Kristov Kerensky, 04 January 2012 - 02:29 PM.

[WarHorse]

Salute!

I've been playing MW since 1999. I became aware of Battle Tech a short while later. I thoroughly enjoyed MWIII for it's ability to custom build. I did not enjoy MW IV for it's restrictions in the Mech Bay. MW IV Mercs. came in with about the same restrictions but by then I was use to them. All things considered I voted for Stock Mechs and the opportunity for limited customization after purchase. Mercenaries use what we're able to salvage. Salvage is one method of payment we accept. Without limited customization you will eliminate a Merc's ability to earn a profitable living through salvage. Therefore I am 4 square behind the limited customization of Stock BattleMechs.

Edited by WarHorse, 05 January 2012 - 04:54 AM.

[Dragorath]

For all full-customization is my only happiness peaople out there. If every concern is just nuts about customization. Why don't we all just play a square box with legs and with a defined size/weight proportion of it which could be filled with equipment. So the design of a Mech would be totally unnecessary and everyone would be happy.

No, mmh wait a minute... only full-customization people would be happy. No style, just statistics are fun.


CHEERS!!!

Edited by Dragorath, 05 January 2012 - 05:24 AM.

[Virgil Caine]

What people are afraid of mostly is what happened in MW4. Boating. Maps full of Daishi with the same loadout. 4 ER Large Lasers, 3 Gauss Rifles. That or Catapults/Vultures with missiles coming out their ears and nothing other than that whatsoever. Occasionally you might see Atlas with 2 Gauss, and 5 ER Large Lasers, HUGE DIFFERENCE!

The developers have said they want to change the battlefield and make all the mechs have a viable use. Imagine that slow Daishi/Atlas, Being laid to waste from Offboard Artillery, or Airstrikes... 12 Daishi with no information warfare, getting their stock Sensors jammed to hell by ECMs, being tagged by Narc Beacons and spammed with indirect fire from lighter mechs. Hopefully it'll change the way the game's played, and mechs are designed.