106 replies to this topic

[Athom83]

Cub, on 19 May 2017 - 05:32 AM, said:

Did you even watch the video? Because I display that skill nodes don't help...like at all.... Kinetic burst adds 1kph to speed......1 for a total of about 7. And no, it does nothing to great effect. I'd hardly call what I display as "sprinting" while laying on the MASC. Oh, AND you use up half your MASC for ONE full burst.

Then its bugged as Kinetic Burst isn't supposed to add speed, just acceleration. I actually didn't watch the video when I made my comment. However, going back and watching the video; It still seems to be very mobile. So much so that I may even retract my statement. A Kodiak is a 20m tall, "100 ton" (realistically it would be far heavier, even given empty mass), war machine, it shouldn't be able to move like a mech less than half its size.

And have you ever full out sprinted before? It wears you out quite a bit. MASC damages the actuators and myomers in the mech, so it would be reasonable they put a limiter on one located on one of the largest BattleMechs in existence (besides Superheavy class). MASC in the SB is doing it's job, it lets the Kodiak have a burst of speed to move a large mass of armor and firepower into the fray of battle. If you wan't it to run all the time, ask PGI for Triple Strength Myomer.

[Ghogiel]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 May 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

Not really talking about stock loadout intended role. More interested in looking at the variant in its entirety and what it is capable of.

Seems you are not. I can't see where you or anyone in this thread is looking at a SB lurm or ERLL builds and saying it cannot fullfil those without more agility than the KDK3. pretty much everyone is referancing some made up role in their own head.

[Jackal Noble]

Citronvand, on 19 May 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

Has PGI ever "fixed" something like this in a post-patch? I'm a new player so I don't know what the precedent is.

Ya it happens quite a bit. Some deserved, some not, and some wtf. Ummm let's see Inner Sphere laser durations were capped at 15% like 5 or 6 patches ago? Used to be some IS mechs had some insane duration/range quirks and so they were dialed back normalized I guess. Black Knight was handed a good dosage of nerfs to both it's structure and weapon quirks, Black Jack was quirked like a mini atlas for a while. Atlas before this most recent patch had been buffed up, I think accel/ and structure. Warhammer was hit lightly by the nerfhammer a several months ago. And much much more. The rabbit hole is quite deep. Their are others that don't come to mind and much more qualified individuals on here than myself to illuminate you.
Btw welcome, hope you enjoy your stay, and have a penchant for sodium lol.

Also, all mech sizes were PGI "normalized" early last year. Some were ok with it, some thought it was done wrong, as with anything when you are dealing with people and their opinions. Google or look up on here Catapult resize, or Nova resize to get an idea.

Cheers.

Edited by JackalBeast, 19 May 2017 - 03:20 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Cub, on 18 May 2017 - 02:09 PM, said:

Does this seem right to you?

That is bugged as all hell. PGI Fix this crap.

[Cub]

Athom83, on 19 May 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

Then its bugged as Kinetic Burst isn't supposed to add speed, just acceleration. I actually didn't watch the video when I made my comment. However, going back and watching the video; It still seems to be very mobile.....MASC in the SB is doing it's job

1 kph to speed of acceleration. As again...I explain in the video.... Unfortunately, the way MASC is operating now as I, and many others in this thread who actually pilot the 'mech, have pointed out, is not doing it's job. 5 tons for 1 burst of speed that takes 5.5 seconds to generate, is not worth the 5 tons. Also, "it seems to be very mobile?" Now I'm pretty sure you didn't watch the video in it's entirety where I compare it's mobility with MASC against an unskilled EXE, a 95 ton mech w/ MASC.

Ghogiel, on 19 May 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

Seems you are not. I can't see where you or anyone in this thread is looking at a SB lurm or ERLL builds and saying it cannot fullfil those without more agility than the KDK3. pretty much everyone is referancing some made up role in their own head.

I can't see how I can take you seriously after such obvious trolling posts.

Perhaps a few folks got the brawling role in their head after reading this: https://mwomercs.com...-lore-blueprint

[Tordin]

Verkhne, on 18 May 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

Shame on PGI. Selling heroes to nerf them with a hammer. A practice that may affect sales of all Hero mechs.

*sigh* Someone need to ask PGI to put a giant neon sign on the mech packs pages saying :

"Might get nerfhammered or become op in the future!"
Note: Balance is a pickle!

[Ghogiel]

Cub, on 19 May 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

I can't see how I can take you seriously after such obvious trolling posts.

Perhaps a few folks got the brawling role in their head after reading this: https://mwomercs.com...-lore-blueprint

She fired a UAC10 into a tree at a non descript distance (possibly more towards it's max range) And people jumped to the conclusion of "King" of brawler amounst the KDKs. Meanwhile, the KDK3 is the defacto brawler on the KDKs with it's dual LBX20s

[FupDup]

Ghogiel, on 19 May 2017 - 03:53 PM, said:

She fired a UAC10 into a tree at a non descript distance (possibly more towards it's max range) And people jumped to the conclusion of "King" of brawler amounst the KDKs. Meanwhile, the KDK3 is the defacto brawler on the KDKs with it's dual LBX20s

To be nitpicky, the actual "lore" role of the KDK3 with those twin LBX20s was anti-aircraft.

...But of course that doesn't really apply here in MWO and there are much better ways to deal with aircraft anyways.

Edited by FupDup, 19 May 2017 - 03:55 PM.

[Ghogiel]

FupDup, on 19 May 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

To be nitpicky, the actual "lore" role of the KDK3 with those twin LBX20s was anti-aircraft.

...But of course that doesn't really apply here in MWO and there are much better ways to deal with aircraft anyways.

There are no aircraft in MWO.

[Deathlike]

I'm pretty sure it is simply a Kodiak "in spirit".

[Jackal Noble]

Just gave it a go in Testing Grounds and can confirm. There is pretty much no noticeable difference from accelerating, at standstill without masc engaged vs when it is engaged from standstill. Once it get's up to the 64.8kph (using a xl400 in test) masc then behaves as should. It is at about 48-50% (pointed out in OPs video) by the time it is actually working, which anyone with experience using masc knows that you have a few seconds at best before hitting 75% and burning up. Followed by a long cooldown. It needs to be fixed, and hopefully will because 4 tons is a total waste otherwise.

[Malrock]

Ghogiel, on 19 May 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

I don't see the point in singling out the SB. Why do you do so when there are other KDKs and many other 100tonners?

Because the Spirit Bear is the only mech that had its ability to be effective, effectively destroyed. Atlas got super tanky as result of the tree, and never moved great to being with, KDK-3 got hammered hard but can still deliver great firepower at range...just dies to anything fast moving or close up. But the Spirit Bear can't deliver any fire power at any range because the Spirit Bear can't brawl. It was specifically designed to be a mobile brawling platform with the highest mobility of the KDK chassis and now it it has the worst. The only reason to build the Spirit Bear is for SRM brawling and that is now dead. They killed the Spirt Bear as it cannot brawl. All of the other 100 tonners as far as i can tell feel cruddy to pilot due to the nerfed agility but are still playable, Spirit Bear not still playable.

[Gas Guzzler]

Ghogiel, on 19 May 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

Seems you are not. I can't see where you or anyone in this thread is looking at a SB lurm or ERLL builds and saying it cannot fullfil those without more agility than the KDK3. pretty much everyone is referancing some made up role in their own head.

LRMs aren't a viable loadout at high level play. 2 cERLLs is not a viable loadout on a 100 ton assault. Its not really made up in my own head, the brawler bear is the only viable Spirit Bear build, or was anyway.

Kinda like how the only viable KDK-3 builds are dakka or PPFLD poke or some mix of the two, not an LB40 brawler. Because the KDK-3 is capable of those builds, it should be balanced assuming it will be using those builds. a Spirit Bear can't do dakka or PPFLD poke. It can really only do the brawl build or the LRM build, either of which could use more agility than the KDK-3. Its directly applicable to the brawl version, and won't make the LRM version OP in any way.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 19 May 2017 - 04:45 PM.

[Snowbluff]

Athom83, on 19 May 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

A Kodiak is a 20m tall, "100 ton" (realistically it would be far heavier, even given empty mass), war machine, it shouldn't be able to move like a mech less than half its size.

What about you? You're a grown adult. You should only be able to move at half the speed of a child. Stop walking, that's too fast for reality!

OHM NO IT'S USAIN BOLT! At 26 MPH he's destroying the light speed barrier! A child can only tun at 6 MPH, so he can run 4 times too fast!

[Ghogiel]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 May 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

LRMs aren't a viable loadout at high level play. 2 cERLLs is not a viable loadout on a 100 ton assault. Its not really made up in my own head, the brawler bear is the only viable Spirit Bear build, or was anyway.

Kinda like how the only viable KDK-3 builds are dakka or PPFLD poke or some mix of the two, not an LB40 brawler. Because the KDK-3 is capable of those builds, it should be balanced assuming it will be using those builds. a Spirit Bear can't do dakka or PPFLD poke. It can really only do the brawl build or the LRM build, either of which could use more agility than the KDK-3. Its directly applicable to the brawl version, and won't make the LRM version OP in any way.

Which fallacy is it? Argument from "meta" or argument from lore

[Duvanor]

Try argument from playability.

[Athom83]

Snowbluff, on 19 May 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

What about you? You're a grown adult. You should only be able to move at half the speed of a child. Stop walking, that's too fast for reality!

Misinterpretation. Machines do not equal humans. A Smaller machine can move itself faster when it has similar power as a larger machine as it takes far less force to move the smaller machine. A human child has untoned muscles, untrained nerve pathways, and no real stamina. A war machine is built with the top of the line movement systems, top of the line information and electrical pathways, and a suitable source of energy.

Snowbluff, on 19 May 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

OHM NO IT'S USAIN BOLT! At 26 MPH he's destroying the light speed barrier! A child can only tun at 6 MPH, so he can run 4 times too fast!

Constant training for decades. Lean musculature. Stamina. Efficient neurological pathways. Et Cetera. By your logic, everyone who is 30 years old, 200lb, and 6' 5'' should all be running at 26 mph.

[Cub]

Athom83, on 19 May 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

A human child has......no real stamina.

You seriously just wrote that? Your disagreement is noted, but it looks like the vast majority of folks who actually own and pilot the Spirit Bear, as well as other assault pilots in general, agree that the Spirit Bear is broken and that 100 ton assaults have been grounded. This is a thread to bring awareness in an attempt to fix that and come about with a solution. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, thank you for your input. Also, perhaps take out an Atlas, King Crab, Kodiak, or Dire Wolf for about 10 matches and see if your opinion changes?

I personally believe an accel/dec rate below 20 kph for any 'mech is game breaking. In my matches tonight, we absolutely destroyed a number of unfortunate souls who thought to bring 100 tonners to a fight, they are certainly no longer a threat, and even a less of a challenge.

Here again are the rates for Assaults currently:
Atlas – D = Acc: 6.19 / Dec: 11
Awesome – BQ = Acc: 15.41 / Dec: 17.5
Banshee – LM = Acc: 17.72 / Dec: 15.52
Battlemaster – 1G = Acc: 20.02 / Dec: 18.23
Cyclops 11-A = Acc: 24.63 / Dec: 18.88
Direwolf Prime = Acc: 6.19 / Dec: 11
Executioner Prime = Acc: 24.63 / Dec: 17.89
Gargoyle Prime = Acc: 29.26 / Dec: 23.12
Highlander – HM = Acc: 22.33 / Dec: 18.05
Highlander IIC = Acc: 20.02 / Dec: 17.22
King Crab – 000 = Acc: 6.19 / Dec: 11
Kodiak -3 = Acc: 6.19 / Dec: 11
Marauder IIC = Acc: 13.11 / Dec: 15.58
Mauler – 1R = Acc: 10.79 / Dec: 13.88
Stalker – 5M = Acc: 13.11 / Dec: 15.58
Supernova – 1 = Acc: 15.41 / Dec: 15.55
Victor – DS = Acc: 24.63 / Dec: 21.25

Hills, bumps, uneven terrain, maneuvering around buildings - all these things serve to knock you down from top speed and impede your ability to stay with the group. Nerfing the ability to get up to top speed only makes this worse and actually makes the mech even slower, even though it may have a higher top speed through engine size. Not to mention the ease it is to hit such a target with PPC/Gauss/AC fire.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[Caledonian]

A friend bought me a mech pack for my birthday last month, which included the Spirit Bear. I had a months worth of fun with it and now its useless. I've no issue with the changes in general but strongly feel individual mechs are going to need to be tweaked to improve them.

[Shard Phoenix]

As soon as I took my Spirit Bear into the testing grounds after I finished playing the skill point mini game, I knew one thing.

I would never... ever... ever take that steaming pile of bear scat into an actual battle again. Too much frustration would result, and I'm not someone who feels I need to be top dog in every fight, every situation. Rather, I want to enjoy what I'm doing and there's no way I could have fun with the Spirit Bear as it is now.

Time to strip equipment out of it to use in other mechs.