77 replies to this topic

[dario03]

Johnny Z, on 19 May 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

This made me think about when lasers are getting rebalanced coming up. Does this mean repair and rearm is returning! I think it does!

Sure some complain about the new tree but everyone loves repair and rearm.

I love that its not in the game.

[MauttyKoray]

Bigbacon, on 19 May 2017 - 06:04 PM, said:

If r and r returned, id stop playing immediately. I would never look back unless it was removed again. R and r is the dumbest mechanic in these types of games. Especially if you can lose credits for playing... Just plain stupid.

Yet somehow World of Tanks is one of the most popular games of this type and it in fact uses R&R...

Hmmm....

I don't care either way if it comes or goes, just pointing that out.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 20 May 2017 - 09:54 AM.

[LuruluRulu]

R&R would serve only one purpose, and that is to reduce earnings from each match played. In a predatory environment like World of Tanks it serves to push people to spend money on the game, and it would be a horrible addition to MWO. It would only serve to punish people who aren't playing to the meta, and we already have a place for people like that; it's FW.

[Mister Blastman]

Funny how I notice a correlation with stats to threads complaining about LRMs...

Hmm.

[Brain Cancer]

JadePanther, on 19 May 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Or just take another few years off till [REDACTED] gets straightened out.. Ammo costs might be a nice offset to them being ridiculous. that or perhaps time to nerf LRM skills.. Something should be done or really its just see lrms flying everywhere and just overheat to death and find a map that can be defendable from them..

Because sure, we should take the least efficient weapon short of the machine gun and make it pay-to-play.

Same counters exist as pre-skill-tree, The difference is that instead of sticking a module in, you spend skill points. The only difference between pre-tree LRM effectiveness and post-tree is that your lurmchucker can get more ammo per ton. His performance everywhere else has to suffer because he's sacrificing nodes to the Lurm Gods to get his weapons up to snuff. That means he's slower, more fragile, or otherwise hosed.

MauttyKoray, on 20 May 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Yet somehow World of Tanks is one of the most popular games of this type and it in fact uses R&R...

Hmmm....

I don't care either way if it comes or goes, just pointing that out.

MWO's R&R literally turned the game into partially fixed (free repair), partially loaded (free reload) or laserboat-o-rama and/or both because that was the most effective builds to get money and win games.

It was a massive grind booster, where the rich got richer and the newbie suffered.

Heck no. We don't need that in MWO ever again.

[RestosIII]

MauttyKoray, on 20 May 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Yet somehow World of Tanks is one of the most popular games of this type and it in fact uses R&R...

Hmmm....

I don't care either way if it comes or goes, just pointing that out.

That's because Russians bloody love the damn thing. They just love F2P games full of pay to win and horrible imbalance more than any other group I've seen. But guess what? I stopped playing WoT because it was full of horrible grinding, and so have most of the other people I know who used to play it.

[chucklesMuch]

RestosIII, on 20 May 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

....

I was not aware of them. I'm going to murder Cazidin. I've been using him as a source of news for this game, and he never mentioned them.

Perhaps was Cazdin was working out how he could sell them to you?

[Mystere]

MauttyKoray, on 20 May 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Yet somehow World of Tanks is one of the most popular games of this type and it in fact uses R&R...

Hmmm....

I don't care either way if it comes or goes, just pointing that out.

War Thunder has R&R too. As such, Gaijin must be doing something really wrong because WT has more players on it at any one time than MWO has in an entire month.

Ruludos, on 20 May 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

R&R would serve only one purpose, and that is to reduce earnings from each match played. In a predatory environment like World of Tanks it serves to push people to spend money on the game, and it would be a horrible addition to MWO. It would only serve to punish people who aren't playing to the meta, and we already have a place for people like that; it's FW.

See above.

Mister Blastman, on 20 May 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Funny how I notice a correlation with stats to threads complaining about LRMs...

Hmm.

Well, there's at least one T1 on these forums crying about LRMs as well.

Edited by Mystere, 20 May 2017 - 05:21 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Mystere, on 20 May 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

Well, there's at least one T1 on these forums crying about LRMs as well.

Since when do tiers mean anything?

[KekistanWillRiseAgain]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 May 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

also the +15%Crit Chance for LRMs only works then the target has lost its armor(Armor is aways double Structure)
so you have to chew threw 2/3s of the mech before that Crit chance will even come into play,

+15% Crit DAMAGE not Chance... they are quite literally the most useless 2 nodes in the entire Skill Maze, to have a LRM missile critical hit for 2.58 instead of 2.4 (+.18) or a SRM missile critical hit for 4.62 damage instead of 4.3 (+.32). Just more noob traps like the entirety of the Survival Bush, this has to be the most punishing system conceived to be used against the casual and/or new player.

[QuantumButler]

LRMs are only really good against bads unless the people running the LRMs are working together well as a team, at which point of course they're doing well, they're playing the game using the most overpowered thing in MWO, teamwork and communication.

Are LRMs better now that you can actually get meaningful buffs for them on any gundam if you put skills in? Yes of course, they're arguably in a slightly less bad place than they were before, still not great weapons though but you can use them with a low amount of skill and get big damage numbers so people think they're OP.

They're only really dangerous to big, slow robots, which with the agility decoupling applies to a lot more gundams now than it used to, to be fair.

Edited by QuantumButler, 20 May 2017 - 05:40 PM.

[King Chimera]

RestosIII, on 20 May 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

That's because Russians bloody love the damn thing. They just love F2P games full of pay to win and horrible imbalance more than any other group I've seen. But guess what? I stopped playing WoT because it was full of horrible grinding, and so have most of the other people I know who used to play it.

I used to play WoT whenever it came out on Xbox and I lacked a decent PC. I had fun at the early levels, but then the R&R costs hit me hard on my giant Churchill tank and I stopped playing because I was losing money. I was being PUNISHED for advancing through the game. Bringing back R&R in any form would be the update that actually starts killing the game, not the skill tree that people love complaining about.

[Khobai]

Quote

+15% Crit DAMAGE not Chance... they are quite literally the most useless 2 nodes in the entire Skill Maze, to have a LRM missile critical hit for 2.58 instead of 2.4 (+.18) or a SRM missile critical hit for 4.62 damage instead of 4.3 (+.32). Just more noob traps like the entirety of the Survival Bush, this has to be the most punishing system conceived to be used against the casual and/or new player.

the -2.5% missile spread nodes are far more useless.

[oldradagast]

MauttyKoray, on 20 May 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Yet somehow World of Tanks is one of the most popular games of this type and it in fact uses R&R...

Hmmm....

I don't care either way if it comes or goes, just pointing that out.

Word of Tanks - and World of Warships, which I play - also has a tier system. The purpose of repair and rearm there is to make the highest tiers unprofitable to play. This means people are forced to sometimes play lower tiers to make money. While that sounds annoying, the overall effect is positive since it also means that the game actually HAS a reasonable number of people playing at below the top few tiers. Were it not for R&R in that game, everyone would eventually race up to tier 10 and the rest of the game would be sparsely populated. That would quickly kill it since new players couldn't find matches and old players would get bored of endless tier 10 battles.

MWO has no such system. There's no tiering, so no reason to punish people with R&R costs. If MWO did have a tier system, or a continuous world in FP, or something more complicated than various forms of Skirmish, R&R, if done right, could work. But R&R is completely incompatible with MWO as it currently exists, and the last time they tried R&R back in Beta, it was so messed up that people were in debt and it was often better for one's bottom line to NOT play the game, or at least not take damage (hide in the back) and play only energy weapons.

[Khobai]

MWO shouldnt have a tier system though

it should have a role warfare system

which is why we need better information warfare so lights/mediums have a stronger role

and no i dont just mean scouting. there is far more to information warfare than scouting.

information warfare is about controlling the flow of information. which includes denying information to enemies (being able to cut people off from their teams shared sensor network) or providing misinformation to enemies (fake radar contacts, etc...).

for example if a single light could run around the enemys flank and create 3-4 fake radar signatures. imagine the chaos that could cause. having proper information warfare would add a whole new level of tactics to the game.

Edited by Khobai, 20 May 2017 - 07:19 PM.

[KekistanWillRiseAgain]

Khobai, on 20 May 2017 - 06:51 PM, said:

the -2.5% missile spread nodes are far more useless.

i would counter that while they are pretty useless... that 5% is applied to EVERY shot, whereas the +15% is an insignificant amount applied rarely. So it is very clear which is more useless... the one that is rarely applied is worse then the one that does not accomplish much every shot.

[Johnny Z]

Brain Cancer, on 20 May 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

Because sure, we should take the least efficient weapon short of the machine gun and make it pay-to-play.

Same counters exist as pre-skill-tree, The difference is that instead of sticking a module in, you spend skill points. The only difference between pre-tree LRM effectiveness and post-tree is that your lurmchucker can get more ammo per ton. His performance everywhere else has to suffer because he's sacrificing nodes to the Lurm Gods to get his weapons up to snuff. That means he's slower, more fragile, or otherwise hosed.



MWO's R&R literally turned the game into partially fixed (free repair), partially loaded (free reload) or laserboat-o-rama and/or both because that was the most effective builds to get money and win games.

It was a massive grind booster, where the rich got richer and the newbie suffered.

Heck no. We don't need that in MWO ever again.

'

Everyone was a newbie back then. Back then I was free to play and didn't have any trouble with it. None.

Like many have said repair and rearm could be a part of a larger economy.

Edited by Johnny Z, 21 May 2017 - 12:29 AM.

[Lykaon]

JadePanther, on 19 May 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Or just take another few years off till [REDACTED] gets straightened out.. Ammo costs might be a nice offset to them being ridiculous. that or perhaps time to nerf LRM skills.. Something should be done or really its just see lrms flying everywhere and just overheat to death and find a map that can be defendable from them..

Here are some counters to LRMs that are maybe not obvious but should be.

There are basically two types of Lurmers.

A hillhumper that parks their stalker (or some other assault chassis) behind some cover and doesn't really move much. In general these mechs have secondary weapons that are matched by a Locust!. These guys are only dangerous if you let be. Also they almost always keep ammo in their legs...no really they do.

The hillhumper weakness is their lack of mobility. The mech to counter these guys is a light fast and small mech with close in brawling weapons and idealy ECM as well. My first choice is an Arctic Cheetah for clan or a Locust PB for I.S.

Formation close support Lurmers are the other type. These guys are more difficult to handle because they have the good sense to stick with their team mates and are actually on the front lines. It is worth mentioning that these Lurmers are the more dangerous of the two common Lurmer types because they tend to be closer to targets and hit with more effective volleys.

Ironicly what I find best for handling these front line Lurmers is another front line Lurmer. And I prefer lighter over heavier chassis to use for counter battery fire duty. I personally use a KTO- GB (A Huntsman can carry a similar loadout to the KTO for clans) for the role of front line Lurmer and counter battery fire mech. I use the medium mech's superior mobility to most other LRM carriers to duck in get a lock and toss a few volleys onto the enemy and slip away back into the second line of my team. Duck and weave and you hit them more than they hit back.

Edited by Lykaon, 21 May 2017 - 12:26 AM.