27 replies to this topic

[Jacobei]

I loved the Elemental Suit and it needs to be in this awesome MW:O game!
for IS: https://mwomercs.com...e-hq-pet-class/


After looking it up I have read some old posts about how these suits were way to low in armor and damage to be included in MWO. It was the most viable reason that the Elemental Suit has not been added. Perhaps its to early in the timeline? But I don't think so.

So here is the idea #1:

1. PETS - Have the elemental suit player control 4 other pet suits. Similar to a pet class in an MMO. The player would pilot one and the rest would follow like pets. The player could use a pet control to attack, follow, defend, stay. The player would fire all the suit weapons just like a Mech fires missiles and lasers. The suits would move quickly and would be prey to speed tweaked lights but hard for alpha strike heavies.

2. SUITS - Each Elemental Suit would be like a section of armor (Leg, Armor, Torso, Head) Each suit would have a light weapon as the suits do (balanced suitable for MWO). As the opponent takes out suits it also takes out the Elemental players firepower... It also increases the odds for the opponent to land a "head shot" by hitting the player suit(?).

3. Destroyed - The Elemental suit player would auto jump to another suits cockpit when/if his suit is destroyed until he is piloting the last suit. *Or he is limited to one suit and its equal to a head shot (Its just an idea to have a cool elemental suit and a pet class in MWO that also fits the game!). Over heating could pop a pet suit and/or do damage to all suits.

4. Special Weapon - Similar to the flamethrower the Player Elemental Suit could have a Laser Cutting Tool used at close range that would focus on legging enemy mechs. Limited use vs fast lights but useful on heavier mechs. *Maybe pet suits could have the cutting tool to.

4a. It would be cool to have a Grab tool and cutting tool. So elemental players could jump onto enemy mechs and grab onto arms and torso to use the cutting tool. The Grab tool could also let the Elemental Suit grab walls and other items in the map to help them climb up and down very steep map areas. Skilled players might even use the grab and hold terrain tool to drop down on enemy mechs from above or hide on a cliff wall.

5. Jump Jets - The Elemental Suits would have advanced jump jet and jump jet skills would be a main skill tree.

6. New Consumable/Useable Item - Mini Shield Generators. Small shield Generators that would cover the Elemental Suits (player and pet team) but would not be big enough to cover a mech - light mechs maybe benefiting some light leg cover. The shield would suffer damage and pop, skills would increase shield hit points. The generators would also be on timers and pop after 15-30sec or something.

6a. Shield Wall -Elemental Suit Players could build Mini Shield Generators that covered mechs or shield walls. The speed of building them could depend on how many suits are active (not destroyed). the Shields would help advance the game strategy!

6b. Build a Bunker. Have player suits use a consumable item Build Bunker. The player could then hide units in the bunker - maybe restore health/repair over time. If the bunker is destroyed all the suits inside pop or take damage. The suits could fight from inside the bunker and use it as immobile armor and help defend locations. The Bunker would not have a timer. Hit points would increase with skills.

The Elemental Suit x5 - 1 player and 4 pets

Elemental

Name:

Elemental Suit

Heat mgmt:

1.20

Weapons:

1x Pulse Laser (MA1) 1x "Small" Laser (MA2)

2x Crossbow Missile (SRM's)(MA1) 2x Alternating Crossbow Missile (MA2)

Limited Missile Ammo

Tonnage

5 Tons x5 = 25 Tons Total Weight

Armor

50 Armor Each x5 = 250 Total Armor

Abilities:

Laser Cutter, Climbing Claw, ECM, Jump Jets

Max Speed:

145

Edited by Jacobei, 02 June 2017 - 01:49 PM.

[Joshua Obrien]

Damn dude, this was well thought out. Take my like.

And also to add, I would love to see what our famous mwo modeler and concept artists could do with the elemental. It would be sick.

[Escef]

Max speed 145? How about no? They top out at just under 33 kph.

Shield generators? Like as in force fields? That kind of tech doesn't even exist in the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe. The closest thing to it is a piece of experimental tech called the Blue Shield Particle Field Dampener, which is only effective against PPCs (and tends to suck in a lot of stray dust particles that clog the cooling vents, overheat it, and cause it to burn out).

Edited by Escef, 27 May 2017 - 04:09 AM.

[Valhallan]

"Protomechs" might be a thing if PGI wants to do it but BA/Elemental? yea not likely.

The heaviest BA is 2 tons a unit (elementals are only 1 ton), your 5 tons is protomech territory (2-9 tons)

Pets should NEVER be a thing in a PVP fps. And BA needs numbers to be of any use. So if BA/protomechs are ever going to be slapped in then it will likely function like the Might and magic games of yore. Your vision is from the squad center, which is replaced whenever the guy is pwnt, and the squad moves in perpetual lockstep and all sync fire where you point

While they "can" pack 18 armor at max (36 in mwo) they also take massively increased damage from certain weapons like plasma rifles and flamers, which makes them softer than you think.

They can actually pack 1 Cerml or even 1 heavy med laser per suit but feth is it heavy at .8 tons/1 ton. (elementals can never field it at their 1 ton) In general they pack the same weapons mechs use (unless being used for infantry killing duty) just with less ammo (one shot or just 2-3 reloads) or small size (microlazer). They also at max move as fast as a stock urbie, (the "higher" move is from using JJ's like a wh40k jumppack)

The biggest use of elementals was melee and critting leg actuators to bring down mechs, we don't use have either system here (melee or mech part crits).

There are no shields in Battletech, your "bunker" is the environmental hazards (your tiny) use it.

It would be far better for them to stuff in standard combat vehicles before stuffing in BA.

[Juodas Varnas]

How about we get Quadrupeds instead?

[Battlemaster56]

Juodas Varnas, on 27 May 2017 - 05:27 AM, said:

How about we get Quadrupeds instead?

[KingCobra]

Sorry OP been done before in MechWarriror4 Mercenaries MekTek pack and you probably got that information off of a old Battle suit league web site.

This was done before about 10-12 years ago there was a MW4 league that all you could play was battle suits Vs battle suits it was fun for a short time but not fun against mechs.

MEKTEK made a game mod for MechWarrior 4 mercenaries that you can still download today and play the battle suits and they even had there own maps to play on in the mod pack.

P>S Just go on GameRanger then to the MechWarrior 4 mercinaries lobby ask for the MEKTEK MOD pack link from some of the old guard players there.

Edited by KingCobra, 27 May 2017 - 05:38 AM.

[Valhallan]

Juodas Varnas, on 27 May 2017 - 05:27 AM, said:

How about we get Quadrupeds instead?

There are Quad protomechs

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Basilisk

[Coolant]

I would love to have Battle Armor and would sure use them. MW4:Mercs + Mektek patch had them and they were a blast.

[YourSaviorLegion]

I could see battle armor as a consumable where you would call 4 or 5 in and they would harass mechs in the area.

[Jacobei]

Thanks for your input all! It was fun late night idea LOL

1. I think Faction leaders would have fun adding this idea to their list of combat strategies

2. Its a light mech/unit style of combat (fast) but different then how light mechs are used. Elemental Suits would run more support rolls for larger mechs and location defence and not scouting or assassination.

3. There is Shield Generators in MWO.

4 Is MWO restricted to the board game stats on mechs and stuff? Some players are quoting board game stats? I don't think that is relevant to MWO. Timeline is but not mech stats - please let me know if that is incorrect.

5. I have never played MW4 - I will check out the suits.

6. I am going to make another post about vehicles for Inner Sphere but I think there will be a lot of "we don't want another tank game...."

Thank you to everyone that shared ideas and gave feedback.

Edited by Jacobei, 27 May 2017 - 08:11 PM.

[Captain Mittens]

I would make BA an option for player who want to take fewer, but heavier mechs into FW, so like you could take ,2-100 ton mechs 1-60t mech and a BA.

Or in faction play allow people who have no mechs left to spawn as BAs

[Dollar Bill]

Elemental suits work pretty good in MWLL, and they're fun! I dough Russ/Paul will let them in MWO.

Edited by Dollar Bill, 27 May 2017 - 09:01 PM.

[Vonbach]

Just what we need something to make the clans even more OP.

[Johnny Z]

These and tanks and air craft NPC's would of course be awesome. For players even the slightest lag would make them unbalanceable.

The bunker idea is excellent as well.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 May 2017 - 09:54 PM.

[kf envy]

OP mech warriror living legends is still up and its free and has Elemental there an lot of fun to use. I also find me self spending more time on MWLL then MWO may have something to do with the mod Dev on MWLL fallowing more of the core battletech rules and not making it up and ignoring core things about battleteck like PGI does.

Dollar Bill, on 27 May 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

Elemental suits work pretty good in MWLL, and they're fun! I dough Russ/Paul will let them in MWO.

if its fun they wont add it. now if its unfun and game braking then there gong to add it for sure

Edited by kf envy, 28 May 2017 - 01:56 AM.

[Nesutizale]

I think that Elementals shouldn't be playable. A consumable with 4-5 AI controled Elemntals that you can place on the map where they will hide and wait till someone comes into range for them to attack em. Either when a mech steps into their weapon range or a mech comes into the jumping range.

When the target would come into weapons range, they would swarm around the mech in a zigzag pattern, attacking with their antimech weapons, MG/Laser and SRM.

When a Mech enters comes into the jumping range (90m IIRC) they would jump at the mech, attaching themself to the mech and do a fixed amount of damage over time to the section they landet on.
Kinda like missiles that attach to your mech and do damage over time.
They still can be shoot down by another player but they would risk teamdamage...

In both cases the Elementals would jump away from the battle when either their time runs out, a certain amount has been killed or they have done a certain amount of damage.
That way they should be good to balance.

Detactability would be limited to beagleprobes and the like or when they just jump at your face

That way they could be used as a tactical asset to block a path or add some confusion when brawling.
They should never be a gamechanger and be more like another type of airstrike or artillery.


As for the OPs idea of bunkers. I could imagne regular troops to be placed in bunkers or trenches in a simmilar consumable fashion.

You would have regular MG/Laser/SRM troop consumable. (25man IIRC)
When you place them on free ground a bunker would appear. From there they would fire their weapons until the bunker is destroyed.
The alternative is that when there is a building under your curser, they will take positions inside the building and fire from there. They would be destroyed when the building has taken a certain amount of damage...as we don't have destructable buldings.
This could be a very interesting strategy for maps like frozen city or river city.

As with Elementals they should not be seen as a replacement for a mech or that they will bring a lot of firepower or hold of an enemys advance on their own. Just a strategical asset that you place, for example to have an early warning when an enemy comes from your rear or on crimsion over the hill or tunnel.

[Logan812]

Oh boy, if you thought all the balancing issues and complaining was bad BEFORE introducing Battle Armor...

Yeah, I don't see this going over well. Besides, if we're doing combined arms then we might as well throw in tanks, hovercrafts, and aerospace fighters too at which point it would just make MWO a lesser MWLL. MWLL was designed for combined arms (including Battle Armor) from the get-go, but MWO's entire focus is on Battlemechs (whether or not MWO succeeds is up to interpretation, but I personally love the way mechs handle in MWO.) Also, we have to consider the fact that it would be PGI developing an entirely new system for BA, and it took PGI 4 1/2 years to release Community Warfare which is essentially an IS vs Clans-focused Quick Play mode without matchmaking. Not to mention they still can't get basic weapon balancing right after almost five years.

So, excuse me if I don't have high hopes. It would be an awesome addition if implemented well, yes, but it would HAVE to be implemented almost flawlessly or it would fall apart while also probably taking the rest of MWO down with it.

Edited by Logan812, 28 May 2017 - 03:42 AM.

[Escef]

Jacobei, on 27 May 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

2. Its a light mech/unit style of combat (fast) but different then how light mechs are used. Elemental Suits would run more support rolls for larger mechs and location defence and not scouting or assassination.

Except they aren't fast. They can barely pace a stock Urbanmech.

Jacobei, on 27 May 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

3. There is Shield Generators in MWO.

There are generators that provide power to devices that articulate physical barriers, yes. But there are no force fields or the like.

Jacobei, on 27 May 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

4 Is MWO restricted to the board game stats on mechs and stuff? Some players are quoting board game stats? I don't think that is relevant to MWO. Timeline is but not mech stats - please let me know if that is incorrect.

Every single mech tonnage, equipment tonnage, and critical slot allotment are identical to table top. Take any mech you like, multiply it's tonnage by 4, drop in that size engine and it will have (before speed tweaks) a top speed of 64.8 kph, because that is the running speed of a mech with that size engine. Which is arrived at by looking at the maximum number of 30 meter hexes it could clear over open terrain in a 10 second round (4 is the mech's walking Movement Points, running is 1.5 times that, so 1.5 times 4 is 6 hexes, times 30 meters per hex, times 6 rounds per minute, times 60 minutes per hour, divided by 1000 meters per kilometer...) Armor and Internal Structure base values are based on table top (they were doubled for MWO, because Beta testing found mechs to be too fragile this way, and the head's internal structure value jumped from 3 to 15 to make 1-shot kills via cockpit hits rare). Weapon range, heat, and damage are based on table top, but saw tweaking for playability (LLs run hotter and deal less damage in table top, IS pulse leasers have less range, etc.).

Is it required that MWO base equipment performance on table top? No, it isn't. But PGI has made an effort to stay as true to the franchise as they could, with as few sacrifices as possible. And even then, changes only for the sake of making the game not be a horrifyingly imbalanced fuster cluck.

So, yeah. Elemental suits in table top have 10 armor and 1 point of "structure" that represents the trooper (this would translate to around 22 total damage needed to kill one of them in MWO). They have a maximum speed of just under 33 kph, and have jump jets. They typically carry a laser equal to an IS-SL, and carry an SRM2 with 2 volleys. I'm not going to get into swarm attacks, leg attacks, or battle armor riding into combat on mechs, that's a little too involved for a simple board post. (Which is already running a bit long. Brevity being the soul of wit and all that.)

[Appogee]

I don't think they worked well in MW:LL.

At pings over 200, they were very difficult to hit. And because that game gave them the firepower equivalent to a Star (ie 5X) they could rack up huge damage totals over time.

They made the game feel less like BT to me and more like Crysis.