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Confessions Of A Tier 5 Potato


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#21 General Solo

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 02:43 AM

View PostAtomic Hamster, on 29 May 2017 - 06:36 AM, said:


Never actually considered that even though it is blindingly obvious when you do - thanks for that!. Looking back through my screenshots of defeats with no rank loss (yes they are so uncommon for me that I ss them), it looks like the break point is about 400 dmg (my lowest was 408 dmg w 2 kills, 1 kmdd + 1 solo - match score on that was actually only 288).

Seems harder to do if your team has been rolled and it's just a few of you against the entire enemy team - getting focus-fired by the enemy team doesn't give you long to get that damage out.

2 most common situations for getting rolled seem to be when the team scatters all over the map at the start or just sits behind cover firing LRMs. Not sure how much of this is to do with lack of map knowledge (as well as lack of communication like the OP pointed out) - doesn't seem to happen on easy-to-navigate maps like Caustic. Have to say that for me not knowing the maps well enough is the main cause of getting into bad/fatal situations (that and minority pushes where most of the team stays behind or scatters).

Also thanks to the OP and Delores - very helpful posts.


I have a saying thats applicable - pug shields double front

Lets say you are the high tier guy, use your teams armour till they are wittled down.
What Im really saying is if there's one mech left you or a newbie, who's gonna carry harder.
Make sure you postion yourself so that it's you who finishes the job coz you got more jam than yo team mate to finish the job

Connfessions of a Tier 1

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 30 May 2017 - 02:46 AM.


#22 General Solo

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 02:47 AM

When yo see this, its foor the greater good. lol

#23 Serpentine Shel Serpentine

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 06:45 AM

Keep in mind that the matchmaker does not always match Tier 5 with Tier 4/5 in public queue. I recently polled my team in PQ that I dropped with randomly and all respondents were Tier 1 (about 3/4 responded). I am Tier 5. I have also dropped with a youtuber (KanajashiF2P) who is an expert. So there is really no such thing as "Tier 5 map selection." Tiers are not even displayed in matches so there is no way to know what tier you are playing with.

#24 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 08:14 AM

View PostDeloresAbernathy, on 30 May 2017 - 06:45 AM, said:

I recently polled my team in PQ that I dropped with randomly and all respondents were Tier 1

keep in mind that people will not always be honest when asked how good they are about something.

I am most certainly not tier 1, and many times I have heard someone claiming to be tier 1, who went down with less than 100 damage after performing a 1 mech push into the front of a 10 Mech enemy firing line.

Quote

Tiers are not even displayed in matches so there is no way to know what tier you are playing with.


exactly

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 30 May 2017 - 08:53 AM.


#25 Jay Sovereign

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 03:47 PM

There may be a general upward tier trend for average skilled players, however there are tons of players who have been at this game for years and are still in the lower tiers.

I would say that being tier 1 counts for something.. I guess what might be more important is how long it takes you to get to tier 1, and how difficult it was to achieve

Edited by Jay Sovereign, 30 May 2017 - 03:50 PM.


#26 Kubernetes

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 07:22 PM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 30 May 2017 - 02:43 AM, said:


I have a saying thats applicable - pug shields double front

Lets say you are the high tier guy, use your teams armour till they are wittled down.
What Im really saying is if there's one mech left you or a newbie, who's gonna carry harder.
Make sure you postion yourself so that it's you who finishes the job coz you got more jam than yo team mate to finish the job

Connfessions of a Tier 1


The problem with pug shielding is that if you're not up front doing work it's possible your pugs will get rolled and then you're staring at a 10v1 or worse. Better to do the work up front and club the enemy pugs first.

#27 General Solo

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 10:20 PM

The way I do it is I'm up front at the start
Once my armor reaches 50%, I activate shield
I'm still up front, just not on point

#28 treggon

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 09:22 AM

View PostTeer Kerensky, on 29 May 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

I wont comment on the advices or anything like that, but I notice something very, well, unusual I think. Or lets say curious, distinctive.
Compare his map stats, to mine:


I bet my map stats are very different than any more experienced player, as I have hardly played any faction play in the game. I also entered the fray during the launch of Escort and Incursion, and I have seen the map types that support those game modes more often. (I also forgot to put a counter on Terra Therma, which I am fixing in my excel pivot sheet). I found all these stats curious....

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 30 May 2017 - 02:43 AM, said:

I have a saying thats applicable - pug shields double front
...
Connfessions of a Tier 1


This makes sense but in general it is a good idea to rotate armor through the whole team. I agree that experienced players will have a greater chance of turning the tides and coming back from a rolling, and I am perfectly happy to be a meat shield for my betters. I know there is a great disdain for PUG's, and us noobs who are just starting out. I also know if there is a general crap attitude towards new players, the population will dwindle and die. There are just only so many of us that played tabletop Battletech back in the day and care to put in the time in this game transcend noob-hood.

View PostJay Sovereign, on 30 May 2017 - 03:47 PM, said:

There may be a general upward tier trend for average skilled players, however there are tons of players who have been at this game for years and are still in the lower tiers.
I would say that being tier 1 counts for something.. I guess what might be more important is how long it takes you to get to tier 1, and how difficult it was to achieve


I use tiers to judge my own progress, but at some point, it seems like the higher tiers are not as much fun. It's probably very satisfying to play, and satisfying to figure out tactics, but at some point it seems like work. I build real robots for a living, and this is a good way to blow off steam, I have turned to many hobbies into work, and I don't plan on this being one of them :)

#29 Serpentine Shel Serpentine

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 03:10 PM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 30 May 2017 - 02:43 AM, said:


I have a saying thats applicable - pug shields double front

Lets say you are the high tier guy, use your teams armour till they are wittled down.
What Im really saying is if there's one mech left you or a newbie, who's gonna carry harder.
Make sure you postion yourself so that it's you who finishes the job coz you got more jam than yo team mate to finish the job

Connfessions of a Tier 1


Respectfully, I don't understand this. In my experience, when any players hang back when the rest of the team is fighting, it spells doom if they have significant armor or firepower. If they are better players it is all for the worse. Not to mention unfair to newbies to use them as cannon fodder to soften up the enemy for easy kills in the late game. So many times have I seen assaults opting out of the fight without explanation and the result is a stomp. For TLOG, if you are a Tier one player please lead the crowd, please don't stand by and watch us melt.

#30 General Solo

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 06:41 PM

I'm not saying hide just saying use your teams armor to avoid unneeded deaths.

The way I do it is I'm up front at the start
Once my armor reaches 50%, I activate shield
I'm still up front, just not on point

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 31 May 2017 - 06:47 PM.


#31 Jay Sovereign

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 03:04 PM

View Posttreggon, on 31 May 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

I use tiers to judge my own progress, but at some point, it seems like the higher tiers are not as much fun... at some point it seems like work...

You're right about tier 1 not being as much fun because it is an inherently flawed tier/matchmaking system. It is less fun, yet more stress and more work, most of the time.
I heard that when you are higher tiers, all this does is pair you up with teams that have more lower tiered players. And this seems to be true according to my findings.

#32 Brizna

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 03:06 AM

View Posttreggon, on 28 May 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

Lots of interesting stuff



Sir, you may be a potato but you are a high quality POTATO.

#33 Natred

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 05:26 AM

Atleast your taking the initiative to get better. Heck we all started where your at bud. Keep it up and keep learning.

#34 No One Lives Forever

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 06:23 AM

treggon

and

DeloresAbernathy


Very good posts, very informative, kudos from me. I believe, you wont stay potato'es for long.
See you soon on the Battlefield!

Edited by No One Lives Forever, 02 June 2017 - 06:24 AM.


#35 justcallme A S H

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 05:26 AM

Some good info / numbers. As Sexy said - if only people took this approach the level of skill in MWO would rise markedly even for casual players


One thing I will say here though is do not be fooled by twitch. There are quite a number of streamers who have a lot of followers/viewers but they are not good players at all. I've seen some people comment "oh XXX streamer runs this or plays like that" and well yeah, it's bad to watch them and then pick up bad traits. Some of those mentioned in this thread already apply here, sadly.

IMO the best way to tell the "good ones". Look at their in-game name and check the leaderboards. If their Avg Match score is not over 250 - stop watching and find someone else. Also see if they play Comp / League play, another key factor.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 June 2017 - 05:26 AM.


#36 MOBAjobg

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 08:15 PM

View Posttreggon, on 28 May 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

Summary, my advice is to:
  • learn to work as a team
  • try not to be a LURM boat
  • get Radar Deprivation as soon as you can
  • watch Twitch.com streams of good players to learn how good Mech pilots play

Background

There are many shades of potatoes, but they all start at tier 5 in the Mechwarrior Universe. I just got out of the lowest potato bin and had to geek out on it a bit. This is a bit of general geekery on how I approached getting out of the 5th tier. Potatoes are the fodder that sacrifice their armor and lives every day so meta-tryhards can accelerate up the top tier charts rapidly. This post is about how to understand the stats that matter in the ‘tier’ system on Mechwarrior Online. I got so sick of getting destroyed in the pick up groups that I started to wonder how I could possibly do better. I am a massive stats nerd, so I decided to start taking detailed stats on my performance to see what exactly I was doing wrong. Posted Image My educated guess is that scale of ‘PILOT SKILL RATING’ above is 200 wide. My conjecture is that the total pilot rating system scale is somewhere between 1000 and 1500 units, and those units are broken down into 5 tiers. This means that each tier is 200-250 ‘Pilot Skill Ratings’ wide. To go up in scale, ‘Pilot rating green’ (green up icon) needs to be won more than ‘Pilot rating reds’ (red down icons). A rating of equal yellow means that your skill rating stays the same. What do I mean by this? At the end of a Mechwarrior game you are rated on your pilot rating. I equated the 3 states of this as +1, 0, and -1, and started keeping track of all the other stats I could write down in a reasonable time after a game was over. I have gotten faster at it, and color coded the cells to spot trends, but it looks something like this these days: Posted Image

Stats & Methods of Measurements

I am working on my 500th game record now as I write this, and I broke the 5th tier at around my 487th game. This quantity of data provides a good amount of stats to start understanding what exactly gives you that +1, 0 or -1. I estimate that I probably missed 10-15 games over the course of this stat taking. Posted Image ‘Game’ in this table was recorded as a 1 if we won, and a 0 if we lost. I found that the number one thing that matters is winning games. How can I state that with surety? I ran the correlation coefficients between the pilot rating and every stat and found that winning the game had the highest correlation coefficient. Having a 0.90 correlation between pilot rating and Game win means that winning games is what matters for my set of stats, and my game style during the period of time these stats were taken. To obtain the correlation between two sets of data you do the following in excel: =CORREL(Data1, Data2) This produces a number from 0… 1 that represents how correlated two sets of data are. As you can see from the above set of data, winning matters more than any other stat. If I want to get better, I have to win games. Posted Image You can see my trend in February of this year going into March, I was straight out sucking, and my pilot rating was plummeting. I was basically loosing more than I was winning, so my pilot rating was plummeting. Much of this was due to levelling up new mechs, and trying to figure out how to become better. I don’t play all the time so I looked at pilot rating by date and by game # to make sure I was steadily improving. Posted Image One thing I learned was that if you buy a brand new mech in the mech-store under the old system, my pilot rating would always take a dive until I start getting some of the more core skills like Radar Deprivation. Now because of the conversion and the ability to jump-start a new mech using banked in-game currency, I don’t experience a huge dip in pilot rating when I first get a new robot. This is a very interesting side effect of the new skill tree and the ability to rapidly put SP into a mech through XP, CBILLS or GXP. I find that for a non-ecm mech, levelling up to obtain some level of Radar Deprivation is the most important thing a Mechwarrior can do to improve their winning abilities.

Observations and Suggestions

There are a couple other phenomenon I have noticed that are related to group-play. As a tier 5 player solo-dropping into the Quick-Play queue, there are players learning what the game is about, and generally not able to coordinate as a group.

Teamwork

People don’t really understand that this game is about team-work, or they are shy, don’t have a proper microphone setup or come from an FPS background where teamwork is vastly different. Mechwarrior is a different beast. The team-work in the game is facilitated through the in-game VOIP system where you push a button to talk to other players on your team. You can also chat via text, or use the command wheel where simple commands are broadcast to the team. A well-coordinated team uses all of these tools to communicate and coordinate with each other to win games. A big problem for lower skilled, tier 5 players is that to get better and win more games, you must really be a part of a group and work together. When you group up with other people, even other people that are tier 5, the matchmaking system pairs you up with a completely different pool of players than you fight when you are solo-dropping. This is my experience in the game and it has been told to me by other players.

VOIP

Most well-coordinated teams use 3rd party VOIP solutions like Discord or Team-Speak to communicate within their team. This means that a squad of elite Mechwarriors is usually communicating in real-time in these 3rd party systems. When any group of 2-12 create a group in Mechwarrior, they then have the rest of their ranks filled out to form a 12-man team. When in group play, I have found that other group players will fill out your queues. This has a side effect of having many of these players communicating outside of the core VOIP system. This leads to much of the information that is needed to coordinate with the group to be shared outside of the MWO VOIP/TEXT/Command system when you are playing with the higher-level players. I think this phenomenon will continue, and there should be a way to allow for 3rd party integration into the VOIP system so that if a group wants to use Discord or Team-Speak to do comms, they can also jack in their feeds to the MWO system, or the MWO system could use a 3rd party service in general for comms. Whole communities are organically forming on these servers, and if you go to any of the top Twitch streamers, they tend to have their own Discord channels where fans, MechWarrior’s and devs all are communicating even when the game is not playing. Sometimes it just takes engagement of one players within the groups to use the MWO VOIP system and start dialogue. “Greetings Mechwarriors”, “Hows it going tonight”. In the beginning of the game, when everyone is waiting for each other to connect then hit the placebo READY button, I have found that time is so important to engage each other and create the vibe of the game. Usually if there is no-one willing to say hello, greetings, o7, or engage with each other, I can tell we are either dealing with people who are not paying attention to VOIP, have VOIP muted, or are on comms outside of the MWO VOIP. All the players need to engage with each other, hopefully make a bit of a plan, and attempt to perform team-work. If there are no comms in some fashion, 8/10 times you are going to just loose. Statistically, this means you are loosing pilot ranks, and you are going to continuously get worse and worse games.

LURMS

Games at the higher levels are completely different than games in a tier 4/5 solo queue. The weapons used, tactics employed and level of players are way different for a tier 1,2,3 vs. a tier 4/5. One of the biggest phenomenon’s is Long Range Missiles, or LRM’s, the dreaded “Lurm’s” and the dreaded “Lurm Boats”. There is an almost comedic bent to the hatred of Long Range Missiles in this game. The level of disdain that is put forth towards people who sit back behind their team-mates and lob 40-80 missiles at a time towards an enemy is legend. The problem is that the technique is so effective for lower tiered Mechwarriors, and you can stay alive long enough to get some satisfaction; so there is a positive feedback loop. Here’s the situation, you’re a new Mechwarrior and you get the snot kicked out of you every time you have walked around any of the maps. You are starting to understand cover and staying behind it, but you don’t understand the radar very well. You don’t understand the radar defeat aspects of the game, and you really want to damage some mechs while trekking across large swaths of snow-laden fields. You sit back behind your crew who is perpetually going to the right around the map (NASCAR Style), and lob Long Range Missiles from behind your team at every single target that anyone has the courtesy to hit R to give you a lock. Many times, this is an assault mech and everyone is begging you to take your armor up front and share in the exchange of armor game. In your mind, you are doing SOMETHING besides absorbing PPC/Gauss rounds to help better players win games. It feels better to be hitting armor, even if on the other end it is just an endless stream of toxic ‘I hate this game’ LURM rain. You are taking the largest meat shield and moving it to the back of the line where you are super susceptible to attack by lights wielding 6 small pulse lasers, 30 alpha, (thanks @TheB33F ++ snarky honor comment), shooting you in the a$$ 3 times, killing you with that 90 points of laser damage, and running off. When you are on the receiving end of raining LURMS, and you are losing armor all over your body and you know it took almost NO skill to strip your armor, an experienced player can get super frustrated. Anyone can understand that. Good Mechwarriors have figured out how to huddle around ECM mechs and level up the skill tree to obtain Radar Deprivation and Seismic Sensors. Close to within 200 meters of a LURM boat and destroy it, because even though it may have an 80 alpha strike at range and it can hit you from behind cover, it can’t hurt you if you are close to it, or it can’t see you on radar. The moral of that part of this story is that experienced players generally hate LURM boats and LURM boats are easy to defeat. To defeat them, use ECM or get radar dep and close to within 200m and kill them. LURM boats can be very useful for suppression fire when used in a coordinated fashion, especially when combined with a front-line light mech running NARC, and they are able to communicate. This reinforces that teamwork is what this game is about. Tactics that emphasize teamwork will win this game. Even LURMs can work if proper tactics are employed.  

PILOT RANKING

Some comments on how I measured the Pilot Ranking. LowerTierMeasurement.PNG Posted Image I basically started by creating an arbitrary scale that went up and down every time I either gained or lost a level. I then started screen capturing the pilot rating section of my screen. You can see my measurement lines in these images. With this scale I started creating ratios of proposed pilot rating vs. the actual image scale. So to obtain pilot rating per inch (or per pixel): = [(Rating2-Rating1) / (Pixel2-Pixel1)] I used rulers in photoshop and had each of levels of my image on different layers in my photoshop document so I could take image measurements. I had taken these images on different computers, and had to scale each to overlay each other. There was error in this part of the measurement. There was another source of error where I date-stamped the images and on each of those dates, I had a range of pilot ratings. After a while I started to get better at creating a more uniform image for the measurement, taken at the exact same screen resolution. I also got better at picking a specific data point and putting that into the measurement so my scale got more accurate. This led me to believe that the scale was between 200-250. (233 is what excel tells me right now as an average). So that is the reality, the total scale is between 5*(200 to 250) so 1000 to 1250 as a total scale for the tiers assuming the entire pilot rating system is linear across the different tiers. From this I found out that I basically have to play 5 games to permanently go up one pilot tier rating, and I basically gain a pilot rating per day over the course of my career. My advice to new players is to learn to work as a team, try not to be a LURM boat, get Radar Deprivation as soon as you can and watch Twitch streams of good players to learn how good Mech pilots are doing it.   Other interesting stats from a tier 5 potato. Here was my map stats: Posted Image Interesting Game stats for game type: Game Type Game Stat Incursion 9% Escort 6% Assault 25% Domination 24% Skirmish 37% Posted Image It’s very obvious what is the most popular game types, and how the new modes of Incursion and Escort have generally not excited people. I think that is sad, as pretty much everyone treats every game like Skirmish, and calls the game modes ‘Mini-games’, especially the higher tiered lance commanders who show public disdain for these game modes.

o7

treggon (MWO) / tregtronics (twitch)

PDF Link of original text of this (I have edited online since)


Was Conquest mode not played at all?

#37 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 02:05 AM

View PostMOBAjobg, on 12 June 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

Was Conquest mode not played at all?

Not according to the figures, those total up to 101%, meaning they are probably rounded up, but I cannot understand how it is possible to play 404 matches (based on numver of games per map) without hitting Conquest (for me the third most common mode), Terra Therma, or Mining Collective, and it seems highly unlikely that Crimson would be the least played map, at 3.5 times less than Alpine peaks (a map I have not played in months), for me Crimson is the most common map played (with river in second just 4 games behihd).

for me Conquest is about half as played as Assualt and about 1/3 as played as skirmish, but more common than any other mode, however that could easily be because those 3 have been arround since the last stats reset so I had thousands of games on record before Domination, Excort or Incursion were released.
in my case Conquest has my best average per match earnings at about 25% higher than skirmish or assualt, and I never vote for skirmish as I much prefer the tactical aspect of having an objective other than just killing all enemies

#38 Horse Pryde

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:55 AM

View PostRogue Jedi, on 30 May 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

keep in mind that people will not always be honest when asked how good they are about something.

I am most certainly not tier 1, and many times I have heard someone claiming to be tier 1, who went down with less than 100 damage after performing a 1 mech push into the front of a 10 Mech enemy firing line.



exactly



Ha, I died very quickly in a match yesterday because the whole team got bottled up in an entrance on HPG and I decided to push through to try to get them to do something.
But I am far from a good player. I have my share of good games and bad games. Just need to keep trying to improve and have fun.
My biggest issue is likely that I change mechs far to often. I will play 2-3 matches in a row with a mech but then i switch to a different mech with a totally different layout.

#39 Mad Porthos

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 08:48 AM

Plenty of higher skilled/higher experienced players who are tier 1 or 2 will go down with less than 100 damage, when in queue play. There are pretty valid reasons, not to be an apologist - the primary of which is that no matter how good you are in steering your mech, aiming or even positioning, you cannot always guess where the enemy will come from so you may end up out in front of 5 players, some of whom are actually quite skilled who cut you down with concentrated alphas. There might be those who argue they are Tier 1 or 2 and that would never happen to them, but they are not being honest with themselves... it's easy to forget that it happens when you actually ARE Tier 1 or 2 and only play with your group of similiarly skilled, familiar players in FP and group queues. In those grouped situations you can reliably know you have someone backing your play or that similiarly indoctrinated players are nearby, will focus and call targets and that when contacts are made, aggression will be the response.

That Tier 1 or Tier 2 who dropped into queue play and has no one at all in the group with him may be moving in a "lance" with heavy mechs seeming to shadow and support him, but as he rounds a corner into an ambush, his instincts for aggression and knowing that he has 4 deadly mechs with him may lead him to alpha once, twice or step in aggressively to the brawl and start trying to take names and wreck face. Meanwhile those 4 heavies with him? They hit full stop, reverse and start peeking around the corner one at a time, dropping an artillery strike right into the midst of the enemy where that one Tier 1 guy is trying to brawl.

Boom. The moment of chaos that a good team might have exploited, if the Tier 1 and all 4 heavies with him had launched into combat, is lost as the artillery strike and the combined fire of the enemy team melts that one very skilled Tier 1 guy who applied the effective team tactic AT THE WRONG TIME, in queue play forgetting that individuals in queue play are timid and most definitely not a team. Stuff happens. Mistakes are made. But after that happens a few more times, the habit may be either to never play in queue play, or when you do... use everyone else as pug armor and mop up at the end, since nothing you say or do can get the coordination you need to use group tactics.

Some players, of any queue, try to use in the built in voip to coordinate a lance or two in the beginning of a match, but the salt is incredible at times if you attempt this. People are like, "Who died and made you General Kerensky? STFU, it will never work!". At least these are trying, what ever their queue and sometimes having a plan...any plan, is better than milling around and sniping around a corner, making bad trades until the enemy put the nails in your coffins.

#40 Medicine Man

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 09:42 AM

I already knew that wins mattered the most. I think this stat is overweighted and that ranking should be more individualized. Win vs Loss is ultimately a team based stat which if you random pug a lot means you will have more losses no matter what. I shouldn't have my stats penalized because nobody goes to the yellow circle.





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