73 replies to this topic

[KHAN ATTAKHAN]

First post words saying "low population", HMMMM!!!!, I wonder why, oh yeah, stupid calls like "restrict it to comp players", "pugs are not welcome", only established large comp units should play it", split this, split that, why oh why couldn't you all stay where you were in other game land and just let us play, the rest of the post is irrelevant.

LOL'z at people whinging about FP and population.

YOU IDIOTS DESTROYED IT.

This opinion does not reflect the opinions of any player in any other game on the internet either this one or the other secret dark ones, only the pugs and some smaller units in MWO.
Yep I'm probably in trouble again

[Mr D One]

A simple idea could be to scrap the scouting component and just have faction warfare lance battles with 16 mechs, rather than 48.
The new players could learn the maps and objectives and not feel so daunted by seeing a 12 man on the other side. (only a 4 man)

4 vs 4 (16 vs 16)

Edited by Peter Wolf 359, 05 June 2017 - 07:24 AM.

[DarklightCA]

MadBadger, on 05 June 2017 - 02:52 AM, said:

Yes, because putting up a single text screen completely fixes the fact that they made a mistake from day 1 with their approach to FP, they are still making it, and it's never been a good idea.

1 text screen doesn't fix:
- No training
- No progression of development
- No familiarity with the maps or mode
- No unit recruitment exposure other than forums or the rare unit spam in QP
- The fact that there is no gateway for new players
- The fact that putting newbies up against organized units is and always will be a dumb idea, in every game, everywhere.

PGI made many mistakes in regards to Faction Play but the fact so many solo players are getting creamed by groups is player mistake not developer. They put up that screen to warn players what kind of environment they are entering and so many people decided to ignore that screen regardless.

MechWarrior Online isn't World of Tanks where they have the population to do whatever they wanted. They created end game content around units grouping up and conquering planets and decided to allow people to solo queue it as fillers. Could it have been designed better? Yes. However those players CHOSE to enter Faction Play, read that welcome message and CHOSE to play this environment.

The training part is right there in the welcome message plain and simple, go play quick play until you learn the game mechanics and pickup enough cbills to bring optimized decks. Again, players choice to ignore that message. Also you only get familiarity of maps by playing the game mode, all those groups who are crushing them had to learn the maps just the same.

I agree about the unit recruitment part, there is no real effective way to reach out and recruit players in this game. I also agree that there should be a gateway for new players. However again, there is no gate that keeps out skill being that PGI has no skill based system. It's entirely PLAYER CHOICE if they play Faction Play or not and enter that environment. That screen is suppose to warn them about that environment.

Edited by DarklightCA, 05 June 2017 - 11:43 AM.

[maxdest]

I would argue that having events with huge rewards that only prompt joining a faction is an open invitation to all (rather than just those in a unit). I would also argue that the warning is a pretty blunt instrument , and doesn't help encourage growth.

If FP doesn't get more players (waiting 10+ mins for a game right now) it will die.

Don't cutoff PUG's , welcome them with open hands and graduate the challenge of the mode if possible.

[Crockdaddy]

maxdest, on 29 May 2017 - 03:41 AM, said:

We all know fp split queues cannot normally be split into groups and pug, due to low population.

To counter this, add a new split queue split to split into two pots based on population (i.e. like tier is throttled in QP MM):
- pug and small groups
- large groups

E.g less than 240 people would be as now ( no split )
240+ would begin to split queues with smaller groups filling the pug queue

The hope would be with a the next fp event, enough players would participate to allow the system to work, and therefore help pug stick around and keep the pop higher. At the same time, because of the throttling at low pop times fp matches would still run.

EDIT: 03/06

Too low pop issues:
The MM is throttled , so that at worst only a short period is added to searching time before restrictions are released. In low pop times the MM would be like now, in high pop times much batter.

Sych Drops issues:
To combat synch drops then in events the unit ladders would be split into small and large group rewards, with the main 'unit' rewards requiring larger groups. Possibly this could also be rolled out to normal play, with merc tier points / match earnings having an increased rate when alarge group drops against a large group.

Bad idea is still bad.

[TWIAFU]

MadBadger, on 05 June 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

-You get FP training in QP drops? That's new, how do you do manage that?
-CW is so appealing that almost nobody plays it. Sure looks like it doesn't need a development path to me. Of course, any game mode that doesn't have a stream of new players being developed for it will die over time, but who cares about that?
-The maps/mode not learned in QP make up a pretty large portion of FP. Plus, you are simply wrong. Figure it out.
-The recruitment exposure would come from starting to play FP with unit member while progressing into FP. You can watch how they play and decide who you would like to be with. No spam required. If it's done right. Which apparently you don't want.
-Gating is needed, but a player development/progression system is somehow bad. Gating does the same thing as splitting queues, but somehow splitting queues is bad, gating is good. Gating a system that is already dying from lack of players is also somehow good. This is some pretty convoluted rationalizing, really.
-How does someone enter FP that he's never played before as 'not a newbie'? How does he find a decent unit when he's never played with them before?

I get that you, and many others, need a stream of new, untrained players entering FP so you can rack up easy wins. And you don't really want to see anything change that. I just don't get how you think that is good for FP as a viable game mode.

Learn to play in QP. Learn Group based play in Group QP. Use what you learn in solo, apply to group then apply to CW. This is called 'progression'.

Im sure it would seem nobody plays it if they play solo. Oddly, I dont wait in a group. Funny that in a group queue.

I dont want untrained players. The very last point was just that. I hate facing you solo pugs. It's terrible. It is the untrained that enter this and play it as QP with respawn. New players don't need to be in CW right away, they do need to be gated from entry.

[KingCobra]

TWIAFU, on 06 June 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Learn to play in QP. Learn Group based play in Group QP. Use what you learn in solo, apply to group then apply to CW. This is called 'progression'.

Im sure it would seem nobody plays it if they play solo. Oddly, I dont wait in a group. Funny that in a group queue.

I dont want untrained players. The very last point was just that. I hate facing you solo pugs. It's terrible. It is the untrained that enter this and play it as QP with respawn. New players don't need to be in CW right away, they do need to be gated from entry.

I totally disagree with people that think this way in FP this is what is killing this game mode and MWO in general.Everyone should have access to all game modes in MWO for growth of the game and new player retention.

If anyone should be excluded from FP it is the units/groups that need there own MM queues and keep there only US!!! attitude's TO THERE SELFS.

Edited by KingCobra, 06 June 2017 - 11:49 AM.

[naterist]

You dont even really need to stop sync dropping really. Theres no garuntee youd be in the same match, and with it currently possible in qp and still not a problem there, then i dont see it being a problem here.

Its just a fearmongering excuse for people who dont want the ques split for whatever reason. My guess is theyre worried their leaderboard stats will suffer if they cant continuously stomp pugs.

[maxdest]

Crockdaddy, on 05 June 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

Bad idea is still bad.

Five words is bad argument.

(deliberately ironic)

Edited by maxdest, 06 June 2017 - 12:31 PM.

[TWIAFU]

KingCobra, on 06 June 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

I totally disagree with people that think this way in FP this is what is killing this game mode and MWO in general.Everyone should have access to all game modes in MWO for growth of the game and new player retention.

If anyone should be excluded from FP it is the units/groups that need there own MM queues and keep there only US!!! attitude's TO THERE SELFS.

Fine, we disagree.

Pssst, little secret, everyone does have instant access to content, within reason, upon installation. You install the game, make a trial drop deck, click instant action. Your in CW, instantly. Only gate to content is c-bills, MC, RL cash. So, no idea what your going on about.

Now you have gone all nerd-rage, foaming at the mouth. Now you want to remove Group/Units from the very queue made FOR them? WTH? Now where you getting this strange idea that groups/unit need a MM? We understand that there is none.

Whoa, now, isn't that cute. Keep their US!!! attitude TO THERE SELFS. LOL, got a case of covefe?

MadBadger, on 01 June 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

Unless you split queues based on PSR and not unit tags, size of group, or whatever. Gets a bit harder to 'synch drop to smash pugs' when all those pugs are people of your tier.

There are not enough facepalm meme's in the world....

Drop solo, get crushed. Drop and play QP with respawn, get crushed.

For the best CW experience, GROUP with like minded players and utilize teamwork, coordination, and communication.

Otherwise, chances are, your just going to be a Red Shirt.

[Fake News]

you say low pop, I say low scrubbary.

[justcallme A S H]

KingCobra, on 06 June 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

#1 FP is all but dead.
#2 units and groups in FP have almost seal clubbed there last victim.
#3 units and groups have drove off over 100,000 + players from MWO with exploits-and terrible attitude towards new players and casuals and pugs.

P.S I would rather have PGI split the FP queues to eliminate a PUG Vs unit/group battle system than lose more new players casuals/pugs and this game just fold up and die from lack of players and payers.

You barely played a game in Season 1 of FP Leaderboard. That went for 9 months in duration before it was reset for Season 2 after Tukkayid. What you are claiming is your view however it is not fact and lacks and actual evidence.

1. Is FP really dead? During TUKKAYID #3 there was approx 17,257 (click for evidence) people that played. With the current population of around 30,000-35,000 - that means 50% of the player base participated. Those numbers are remarkably high for a dead mode.

2. No they have not. TUKKAYID #3 stats completely refute your statement/claim.

3. Please prove how units in MWO have driven off 100,000+ players. Please cite evidence and examples only. Also please provide evidence of said claims of using "exploits"? You cannot accuse people of hacking/exploiting without evidence.

The fact of the matter is FP right now is broken for 3 key reasons with one factor being common between all of them.


Uno - FP3 - This was the biggest let down of all FP patches, this single handedly decimated the population. Long Tom killed off the queue's because it was ghost drops. Within 4 weeks some of the largest units in MWO had effectively disbanded - 1,000s of players left because of the most talked up patch of all time for FP (by PGI) , yet it was the biggest let down possible.

Due - FP4.1 (QP4.1) - The initial population "bump" was great. Population was up around 30-40% on FP3 numbers because it was new and was single bucket (player pooling, fast games). However QP4.1 delivered very little new content, in fact it delivered nothing new. Just QP into the mode. In 3 months population (Oct - Jan) was back to FP3 levels and ghost-drops were back

Tre - FP4.2 - It was to be delivered in April with, apparently, a bunch of awesome stuff. It is now June and it's been delayed further till at least SEPTEMBER.

What is the one common factor here? Not units, not PUGs - P G I
It is the developer who has failed to deliver on FP end-game content / promises time and time again which is seeing the overall MWO population die off. Not just FP, overall. It's dropped 30% in the past 18 months or so for a reason and that is nothing to do with units. If anything, units are the only thing keeping a lot of people playing!

How do I know all of this? I've been one of the most active players in FP the last 18 months. I have seen it unfold first hand.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 06 June 2017 - 11:11 PM.

[Davegt27]

man I wish they would bring the Long Tom back it sure made the try hards cry lol

[justcallme A S H]

Davegt27, on 06 June 2017 - 11:37 PM, said:

man I wish they would bring the Long Tom back it sure made the try hards cry lol

LT didn't just affect "try hards".

There was literally no PUGs or lower grade groups around, it was mainly just the highly organised groups in the ghost town that was FP3/LT because why would you wanna play in a match where your mech was blown up before you even shot anything in the first 3mins of the match?

This is what was happening to that level of player... LT would go off and 3-4 of them would instantly due to being totally unaware.

LT had a far more damaging effect on solo/PUGs/unorganised groups that it did on groups who could co-ordinate around it.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 07 June 2017 - 12:03 AM.

[Emeraudes]

KingCobra, on 06 June 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

[redacted]

I'm not even going to bother addressing the rest of your post but for these points:

1: I'm still getting sub 5min drops as a clan-contract Merc for invasion on weekday nights.
2: There are a lot of pugs still with no unit tags.
3: "gg" is the most common thing we type in all-chat, all insults are usually directed towards specific people we know and mostly in a joking fashion, could you elaborate on these exploits cause I don't know of any.

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 12 June 2017 - 10:10 AM.

[TWIAFU]

KingCobra, on 06 June 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

[redacted]

My kind? MY KIND??

Yea, your one of those. Gotcha.

#1. If your a solo, sure does seem dead. If your a Group/Unit player IN THE GROUP/UNIT Queue, it is not.
#2 Groups been saying since they allowed solo into CW, Groups want to face groups and NOT untrained solo tards.
#3 Making sh*t up is making sh*t up. Your making sh*t up. Sad and funny but to be expected.

Im sure you can go on and on with your alternate facts. But in reality, your facts are BS.

Simple thing you cannot understand is that YOU have the power to drop solo, with or against groups. You choose to play solo against Group/Units KNOWING from the outset you will be challenged.

In your case, I'll break my personal rule to not club seals. I look forward to seeing you play solo vs my Group/Unit.

I'll use your salty tears on the rim of my margarita glass.

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 12 June 2017 - 10:11 AM.

[TWIAFU]

iLLcapitan, on 06 June 2017 - 10:20 PM, said:

Maybe FP is dead to you, but I play it every day with my unitmates and we're having good times.

Your bad and your Unitmates are bad for playing in the Unit Queue as a Unit.

You are not giving special consideration to special snowflakes that hardly play MWO, want to play in the deep end without knowing how to swim, or have just installed the game.

How dare you and your Unit play in the Queue designed primarily for them? It's like someone complains about how bad Groups are in Group QP.

[DarklightCA]

KingCobra, on 06 June 2017 - 04:07 PM, said:

#1 FP is all but dead.
#2 units and groups in FP have almost seal clubbed there last victim.
#3 units and groups have drove off over 100,000 + players from MWO with exploits-and terrible attitude towards new players and casuals and pugs.

#1: FP is dead for many reasons, majority of which has nothing to do with either units or groups but game design.
#2: Who units or groups fight is out of their control. You can yell at them all you want but they don't dictate game design or match making.
#3: That number seems highly exaggerated, especially being there are dozens of other things in this game mode that would turn off a player. One being the lack of competition Faction Play has due to the amount of pug teams that are formed that groups have to way through to find a actual decent game. I don't see that many unit groups dropping anymore, I wonder why.

Blaming groups and units is still the #1 excuse for poor game design and why solo players have to fight actual competition to farm their LP rewards.

[maxdest]

DarklightCA, on 07 June 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

/snip
#3: That number seems highly exaggerated, especially being there are dozens of other things in this game mode that would turn off a player. One being the lack of competition Faction Play has due to the amount of pug teams that are formed that groups have to way through to find a actual decent game. I don't see that many unit groups dropping anymore, I wonder why.

/snip

TWIAFU, on 07 June 2017 - 04:04 AM, said:

/snip
#2 Groups been saying since they allowed solo into CW, Groups want to face groups and NOT untrained solo tards.
/snip

Surely this would be support for a throttled split queue then?

Groups would play more vs groups (especially in events when loads of PUG play) and wait times would not be impacted during low pop time periods.

[DarklightCA]

maxdest, on 07 June 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Surely this would be support for a throttled split queue then?

Groups would play more vs groups (especially in events when loads of PUG play) and wait times would not be impacted during low pop time periods.

No. There aren't enough groups to support a grouped queue, you'd kill all grouped aspect of the game mode and neither queue would have the population to reliably find games ending up killing both queue's. What part of splitting a non-existant population would solve any problems? Simply because a minor percentage of the solo population doesn't like fighting groups.