196 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 01 June 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

W/L K/D and average match score stats for everyone is listed on a monthly basis. The bulk of the people claiming LRMs are a good weapon are on the lower spectrum of all three metrics listed, while those claiming LRMs are a bad weapon are on the higher spectrum of those same three metrics. Do I trust the opinion of the statistically better player, or the opinion of the statistically worse player?

Oh, and LRMs vs Meta (Direct fire) has been tested, with the top players in the game at the time on both sides:

https://mwomercs.com...h-lrms-vs-meta/

I hope you realize that those stats are only based on Quick Play drops, right?

[Dee Eight]

Bush Hopper, on 01 June 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

AMS works only outside a certain distance (200m?) else it doesn't activate. So, when a streak boat hugs you...you are toast

Assuming he even gets a lock at all, since I have ECM. AMS starts firing at its max range (which with 15% range nodes and the 10% range quirk on the mech is 300 meters) and continues firing as long as there are missiles in its range to destroy and ammo in the bins. If a streak boat hugs me well I'm not afraid to drop artillery danger close and my weapons fire faster than his weapons. Even from a mere 30 meters firing distance, my AMS could fire off enough shots to kill 2 missiles so he's not doing full damage. There is no MINIMUM operating distance for AMS. .

[zeves]

crazy people arguing awesome, let me get my popcorn.

[Vxheous]

Mystere, on 01 June 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

I hope you realize that those stats are only based on Quick Play drops, right?

We can log into game and pull the FW stats too if you'd like, but its highly likely that the numbers will be very similar. Considering that 90% of the population plays quick play, the metrics stand up to scrutiny

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 01 June 2017 - 06:44 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Blue Pheonix, on 31 May 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

I have played this game a lot. More then I probably should have. However, what I do not see a lot of people doing is pressing the "R" button to target enemy opponents. No, I am not talking about holding locks for LRM boats. I am simply talking about pressing the R button when you see an enemy that is within range.

I get where you are coming from, but tell me, what is the point? ... It takes me 1-2 seconds max to peek, take a shot and retreat behind cover again. Same time due to the latest nerfs to target info acquisition times it takes me 5-10 seconds to get any target info after I press R.

[The_Dane]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

I secure my own kills...I do not want help with that...especially from someone not sharing armor.

So, LRM pilots have to share armor with you so you can pad your stats, but you can't do the simple courtesy of targeting enemy mechs. You're clearly not in this for the team.

[Lorcryst NySell]

PhoenixFire55, on 02 June 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

I get where you are coming from, but tell me, what is the point? ... It takes me 1-2 seconds max to peek, take a shot and retreat behind cover again. Same time due to the latest nerfs to target info acquisition times it takes me 5-10 seconds to get any target info after I press R.

The point ? Being a team player.

BTW, when you peek poke and hide, you *CAN* press R, get target info while you're behind cover, and for the next poke you'll have a paperdoll telling you where to aim for best results.

But of course, since you're an Elite Tier 1, I suppose that you aim by zen and don't need to know where to strike.

[johnwolf]

btw, lrms...being useless...don't make me laugh. Pressure is important and LRMS give that, it makes player's cockpits shake, it blinds them, cause panic.

[Vxheous]

johnwolf, on 02 June 2017 - 08:09 AM, said:

btw, lrms...being useless...don't make me laugh. Pressure is important and LRMS give that, it makes player's cockpits shake, it blinds them, cause panic.

So does Dakka. I fear the impact of a double gauss shot/ppc far more than the "incoming missiles" message, because 1: I know my enemy can shoot, and 2: going from fresh to having orange armor in one location from one hit means I have to be really careful next time I poke out.

[PhoenixFire55]

Lorcryst NySell, on 02 June 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

The point ? Being a team player.

Team player to whom? ... Lurm pro sitting 500m behind the frontline pumping missiles into dirt? ... Any decent player has a thing called battlefield awareness that allows him to know where the bulk of the enemy forces are without any locks, he has eyes for that purpose. Damaged locations on a mech are usually apparent without a paperdoll since you can see damage texture applied over the damaged component. Again, eyes help.

Don't get me wrong tho, I do press R when situation demands it, i.e. when I see a certain enemy mech for the first time in that particular match I need to know where it has the most damage if any at all. But frankly that one targeting is enough for me to forget about pressing R on that particular mech for the remainder of the match, since I (and the rest of my team since I've given them that lock) already know where I'm supposed to shoot it.

Lorcryst NySell, on 02 June 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

BTW, when you peek poke and hide, you *CAN* press R, get target info while you're behind cover, and for the next poke you'll have a paperdoll telling you where to aim for best results.

Uh, no ... it doesn't work like that. If you have no LoS you won't get any delayed target info. Regardless, the only sensible location to target with your next poke would be the one you shot during your previous poke.

Lorcryst NySell, on 02 June 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

But of course, since you're an Elite Tier 1, I suppose that you aim by zen and don't need to know where to strike.

It helps to know, but it isn't essential. Most "Elite Tier 1" as you put it players are always trying to shoot specific components on a specific mech (i.e. RT on a Cataphract, Hunchback etc.). You can tell the build by just seeing what it fires at you (or someone else), you don't need R for that, and knowing the build you can predict a weak component such as an XL shoulder or the component with most weapons (Wolverine arm etc.).

[Jiang Wei]

It helps if you communicate to your team and remind them to use target key.

[Trev Firestorm]

James The Fox Dixon, on 01 June 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

That's only if your opponent plays dumb. Combined arms with focus fire and you choosing the site of the battle will beat "armor sharing" any day of the week.

Armor sharing and combined arms are not mutually exclusive, same with armor sharing and focus fire. If armor sharing isn't working for you then you aren't repositioning or aren't giving enough time for priorities to shift. Sure its not a guaranteed to work 100% of the time, but it greatly improves your team's chances to keep more guns in the fight for longer.

[nehebkau]

I LOVE how any mention of LRMs turns into this repeating argument of sharing armor, securing kills and hiding at the back. 5 years and still the same argument -- never change MWO, keep it real.



.... perhaps increase lock-on time with range? LRM boat standing at the back would take (exponentially) longer time to lock-on than one at 201 meters?

Edited by nehebkau, 02 June 2017 - 02:33 PM.

[Deathlike]

I think people did some TL;DR of the OP...

This behavior (regardless of whether it is to spite LRM users or not) is actually most detrimental to the game... not attempting to get useful information on the target and acting on it. This is why we have really bad TTK discussions (because people keep firing at random spots and not where it matters most) and it hurts the soul.

That doesn't even factor in the old discussions about ghost targeting or "laser lock" to be able to deal proper damage to targets (whether you liked it or not - I certainly did not) and that would've shifted balance more slanted to people that had a clue vs people that didn't even bother using "R" to target.

It's just sad that it's not a habit bestowed and practiced by new players in this game... even some of the long time players too (not talking about comp, but rather people that have played this game long enough and STILL don't use it).

[Jiang Wei]

nehebkau, on 02 June 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

I LOVE how any mention of LRMs turns into this repeating argument of sharing armor, securing kills and hiding at the back. 5 years and still the same argument -- never change MWO, keep it real.



.... perhaps increase lock-on time with range? LRM boat standing at the back would take (exponentially) longer time to lock-on than one at 201 meters?

Scale it with damage too then. The closer the target, the more damage it does. That will make those LRM boats come out.

Edited by Jiang Wei, 02 June 2017 - 03:12 PM.

[Grus]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

you prefer team mates not sharing armor? Taking a 12 man push with 4 standing out of sight? Do you feel that is the best way to play the game?

cool story bro

[Bulletsponge0]

Wraith31, on 31 May 2017 - 08:35 PM, said:

I am also preventing them from hitting me in the back while they try to kill the target I spent all the time killing...

You are also depriving all non-LRM teammates of valuable intel...such as the location, loadout and health of enemy mechs. Nothing worse than having an enemy sneak up behind a teammate and kill him solely because another teammate refused to target that enemy, thus alerting someone they are about to be backstabbed

[James The Fox Dixon]

Jiang Wei, on 02 June 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

Scale it with damage too then. The closer the target, the more damage it does. That will make those LRM boats come out.

We have that... it's called SRMs and SSRMs. LRMs are supposed to long range indirect fire support.

[Mystere]

Lorcryst NySell, on 02 June 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

The point ? Being a team player.

BTW, when you peek poke and hide, you *CAN* press R, get target info while you're behind cover, and for the next poke you'll have a paperdoll telling you where to aim for best results.

But of course, since you're an Elite Tier 1, I suppose that you aim by zen and don't need to know where to strike.

[LMP]

If I happen on to a group of mechs I rapidly target as many as I can so the rest of my team can see that there are a group of mechs and not just one. I also target the mech I'm shooting at so I can shoot LRMs at him at the same time. I have the R key mapped to a mouse button so I don't have to lift my left fingers off the controls to target.