82 replies to this topic

[Ngamok]

I would vote NO again on Phoenix Pack again, they can re release them without the special geometry. Except for the Locust, that roll bar across the front is bad. You guys can have that one.

[Mister Blastman]

I just paid 22.50 for Rising Storm 2: Vietnam. For my 22.50 I got...

Eight maps (more to come)
Engaging 64-player gamemode, a 16-player game mode (and I think there's smaller ones too)
No weapon unlocks, everything is accessible from the start!
Who knows how many character classes--something like 14 - 16 or so
User-created content (maps! mods!)... supported by the developer!
A server browser!
Ability to host custom servers.
Character progression! (though this simply unlocks cosmetic features and nothing more--everyone otherwise has access to all weapons)

For 22.50. I got a FULL GAME.

No mechpacks. No gold. No weapons sold separately. No worrying about leveling to be competitive. No player economy. For 22.50 I got fun.


So when you say the pricing model is fair, you're not being fair to yourself when you don't consider other games like Vietnam who still do it right.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 04 June 2017 - 06:46 AM.

[Alan Davion]

Ngamok, on 04 June 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

I would vote NO again on Phoenix Pack again, they can re release them without the special geometry. Except for the Locust, that roll bar across the front is bad. You guys can have that one.

And so it begins.

[Ngamok]

Alan Davion, on 04 June 2017 - 06:47 AM, said:

And so it begins.

[SmokedJag]

Alan Davion, on 04 June 2017 - 06:33 AM, said:

1. This is quantifiably untrue. There are several ships in WoWs that are glass cannons in the extreme. The Atlanta being the prime example. Sure it lets you spray shells like a FAMAS in the Battlefield games, but if the wrong ship literally LOOKS at you the wrong way you get deleted in short order. That is not flat out better than many non-premium ships.

Arizona, Scharnhorst, Torpitz. Saipan IIRC. All hard paywalls, Torpitz being the worst because it's hella expensive and a Bismarck that can one-shot another BB in brawling range with a secondary weapon system on its own cooldown.

Not counting Montana which is "buy a Tier IX with a unique buff!" I mean you could eventually get it without spending the money but you also will eventually die...

Quote

2. What paywall are you referring to? The Yamato is a non-premium ship, you are perfectly capable of getting that ship without spending a penny. Sure it would take you an obscenely, extraordinarily long freaking time to do it, but you CAN do it.

It's a "soft" paywall but I'll still call it that since it takes many RL months if not years to do that without a premium account or converting XP to skip the pre-Yamato ship.

[Alan Davion]

SmokedJag, on 04 June 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

It's a "soft" paywall but I'll still call it that since it takes many RL months if not years to do that without a premium account or converting XP to skip the pre-Yamato ship.

The Izumo... Right... I forgot about that abomination. I'll give you that one I guess. I haven't played WoWs in quite a while due to Real Life problems. I'm only up to Tier 7 for the American and Japanese stuff as it is.

SmokedJag, on 04 June 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

Arizona, Scharnhorst, Torpitz. Saipan IIRC. All hard paywalls, Torpitz being the worst because it's hella expensive and a Bismarck that can one-shot another BB in brawling range with a secondary weapon system on its own cooldown.

Not counting Montana which is "buy a Tier IX with a unique buff!" I mean you could eventually get it without spending the money but you also will eventually die...

Scharnhorst and Tirpitz/Torpitz are so far the only ships I recall where their sister ships are part of the Non-Premium tech tree. Tirpitz I'll give to you because of the torpedoes which are actually useful against other ships, while the Bismarck's schtick is improved AA.

Which I think historically speaking the Tirpitz was the one that got the improved AA after the Bismarck got sunk.

The Scharnhorst and Gneisenau however only differ in their guns. Scharnhorst being the "historically accurate" ship, and the Gneisenau representing the "planned upgrade" the two ships were meant to undergo but never got the chance. That said though, I do believe the Gneisenau is the better of the two ships, sure you only have 6 guns instead of 9, but your guns are bigger than those of the Scharnhorst. Gneisenau you can actually take on battleships and cruisers. Scharnhorst you can really only take on cruisers and destroyers.

Saipan... While I've never played carriers, yeah, I can see your argument there, it pretty much is flat out better than pretty much any other carrier... But carriers have been broke as f*** since forever and a day on the other hand.

Arizona... I don't know if there's any ship that can be properly compared to the Arizona. I don't see how the Arizona is better than any other ship though. I got completely obliterated in my Arizona on like my 2nd or 3rd outing with it. Took a torp right at the extreme tail end of the ship once and it just straight up detonated by butt. You'll have to elaborate on the Arizona a bit.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Mister Blastman, on 04 June 2017 - 06:44 AM, said:

*snip*

That's great! I hope for an update on how you're doing with that game in 5 years time, I hope it's still as fun.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 04 June 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

PGI should also re-release Phoenix pack permanently.

I say "No way in Hell!" to that.

[Imperius]

Ngamok, on 04 June 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

I would vote NO again on Phoenix Pack again, they can re release them without the special geometry. Except for the Locust, that roll bar across the front is bad. You guys can have that one.

Alan Davion, on 04 June 2017 - 06:47 AM, said:

And so it begins.

I would vote no too...

It was exclusive.

Make a new Phoenix Pack and this time don't make it exclusive for a limited time.

I never got Sarahs Jenner, I had quit MWO during that event. I want it but you don't see me claiming it should be sold again!

[Mystere]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 June 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

That's great! I hope for an update on how you're doing with that game in 5 years time, I hope it's still as fun.

It's all a matter of perspective:

$22.50 <<<< Movie + Dinner for 2

[Imperius]

Mystere, on 04 June 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

It's all a matter of perspective:

$22.50 &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; Movie + Dinner for 2

For a second I thought you claimed you could get dinner and a movie for two for $23... I was gonna ask where you live so I can move lol. Two sodas and some popcorn at the movies here is $25, the movies themselves are $20ish for 2.

[Mister Blastman]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 June 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

That's great! I hope for an update on how you're doing with that game in 5 years time, I hope it's still as fun.

I know one thing--I'll only be shy 22.50.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Alan Davion, on 04 June 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

PGI tried that a couple years ago remember?

But the community was frothing at the mouth over "MUH EXCLISIVITY~!" and PGI caved. The attempted nerf of the Stormcrow and Timber Wolf at the time didn't exactly help things either.

Hell, I messaged Russ himself here on the MWO forums shortly after that fiasco, at the time he said he wanted to re-release them, but his hands were tied by the community outcry.

The only way the Phoenix mechs will be released again is probably if all the "exclusive" stuff is taken away, but at that point, why bother re-releasing them at all?

Amazing how his hands were tied by Community Outcry but when it comes to nerfing something or changing something we don't like, we are all on an Island.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 04 June 2017 - 08:35 AM.

[Ngamok]

Imperius, on 04 June 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

For a second I thought you claimed you could get dinner and a movie for two for $23... I was gonna ask where you live so I can move lol. Two sodas and some popcorn at the movies here is $25, the movies themselves are $20ish for 2.

Movies here are $9.50 each ticket and you could get a cheeseburger at McDs for a $1 so yea !

[Angel of Annihilation]

Mystere, on 04 June 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

It's all a matter of perspective:

$22.50 <<<< Movie + Dinner for 2

This is true but most of us have to look at it as one or the other, not both.

I mean technically my rent is only $20 a day but if I choose to buy the Mech pack instead of adding that $20 to my rent check at the end of the month, I get evicted.

[MrJeffers]

process, on 03 June 2017 - 10:21 PM, said:

"Things could be worse" isn't really a compelling argument. Even comparing internally, why is it acceptable for old $20 packs to contain premium time, while newer $20 packs don't?

And now that we have the new skill tree, why do I need 3 to 7 of the same mech at a time?

^ This.

PGI has greatly devalued the pack values. First they removed premium time from the base pack, something that previously included 30 days *banked* time. Second, they removed banked premium time and it is now auto-activating. And lastly, with the skill tree, the removal of the rule of three, and an increase in the total cost of skills for 3+ mechs.
Now there is little reason to buy 3 variants unless you poke-mech or there are several valuable variants. Historically there are *always* underpowered/undesired/limited/garbage versions that are included in the packs - ones that you needed to at least basic to advance the desired ones in the old skill system. Now the only reason to play the undesired ones is for collectors or lore players.
All of which translates to pretty much zero reason to buy a mech pack for me.

Edited by MrJeffers, 04 June 2017 - 09:04 AM.

[Ngamok]

Jay Leon Hart, on 04 June 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

That's great! I hope for an update on how you're doing with that game in 5 years time, I hope it's still as fun.

I still play BL2 after what 2-3 years.

[Christophe Ivanov]

Alan Davion, on 04 June 2017 - 06:33 AM, said:

Not to mention the resignation of at least one Community Contributor that I know of, The Mighty Jingles, specifically. I wouldn't be surprised if more resigned as well due to that fiasco.



Now for my nit picks on your statement.

1. This is quantifiably untrue. There are several ships in WoWs that are glass cannons in the extreme. The Atlanta being the prime example. Sure it lets you spray shells like a FAMAS in the Battlefield games, but if the wrong ship literally LOOKS at you the wrong way you get deleted in short order. That is not flat out better than many non-premium ships.

2. What paywall are you referring to? The Yamato is a non-premium ship, you are perfectly capable of getting that ship without spending a penny. Sure it would take you an obscenely, extraordinarily long freaking time to do it, but you CAN do it.

Yes it took you a freakin long time to get to the next level of ships. I quit because I got tired of the LONG time to get anywhere, fighting the same old battles ands not getting where I wanted to be which was getting the Montana BB. As a result, I quit and stopped playing that game back in January. They get ZERO money from me now.

Sad to say, MWO is starting to get the same way in my opinion and will start to find something else to play if they do not fix the skill tree. YES it's working, but not like it should have been.

Edited by Christophe Ivanov, 04 June 2017 - 09:03 AM.

[Alan Davion]

Viktor Drake, on 04 June 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

Amazing how his hands were tied by Community Outcry but when it comes to nerfing something or changing something we don't like, we are all on an Island.

It's because of the "never to be made available again" clause in the original Phoenix advertisement. People cling to that one phrase because, as I said previously, "MUH EXCLUSIVITY~!"

Literally anything else in the game, especially core game mechanics are not subject to such arguments, and PGI can alter those at their whim, because that directly affects game balance. Although I'll agree that sometimes the community does have better ideas than PGI when it comes to something like game mechanics. Problem is we can never agree on that stuff so PGI does it's own thing and we have to live with it.

The selling of old mechs such as the Phoenix mechs would have almost no affect whatsoever on game balance. Most of those mechs are mediocre at best. Only a few of the Battlemaster and Thunderbolt variants are really effective in the current meta from what I've seen.

It was exactly because of the "never to be made available again" comment in the Phoenix advert that PGI asked the community to be allowed to sell them again, which I find absolutely bone sick stupid because IGP was calling the shots back then, and they were planning on making ALL mech packs a one time thing.

When PGI bought themselves out of the bullshite deal with IGP, that clause in the Phoenix pack should have been immediately become null and void.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

You don't need 3-7 of the same mech. They should reduce the cost of mechs so that people buy more. No reason beyond wanting Pokemon. So many variants are useless. They don`t even have respectable quirks anymore to make the obvious loser mechs somewhat playable.

In the setting sun of their game, now struggling to keep people logged in, it would be a great time to chop prices and find a new price structure that would bring in new people who were pay gated before.

Would you rather have 1 person that spends 20 or 2 that spend 10?

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 04 June 2017 - 09:18 AM.