36 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

just as the Title says,
Caseless AC Ammunition, is an Ammo type that gives greater Ammo Capacity,
but is easier to Crit(in MWO its Item Health would be less than Normal Ammo)

this could give Options to people wanting to talk normal ACs,
as its a give and take choice, i feel it would add variety to MWO,

in this case, Caseless Ammo could give +50% Ammo for -50% Ammo Health,
it is an Ammo Type, but as it only changes Ammo amounts and doesnt offer effects,
it could be added to MWO easily as all PGI would need to do is Double the Ammo items,

for instance right now we have,
IS-AC10 TonAmmo= 1Ton/1Crit(20Shots)(10Health) &
IS-AC10 1/2TonAmmo= 0.5Ton/1Crit(10Shots)(5Health),
this would Add to that,
IS-Caseless-AC10 TonAmmo= 1Ton/1Crit(30Shots)(5Health) &
IS-Caseless-AC10 1/2TonAmmo= 0.5Ton/1Crit(15Shots)(3Health),

i feel this would add more options to MWO,
as well as give some options for some Mechs,
(not sure if this is only IS Only, or IS and Clan)

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 06 June 2017 - 07:32 PM.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Well technically it was only for IS as Clans didn't use standard AC's anymore, it was all LBX or Ultra for them. Since we don't have ammo swapping in MWO though, and that resulted in 'standard' AC's for the Clans, I see no reason why they couldn't give Caseless ammo to them if they put it in the game. For that matter, there was a number of advanced rounds designed for the standard AC besides just Caseless. If they ever make it into the game, they should require a standard AC to use, and I see no reason to restrict Clans from using them. It would actually give a reason to use those AC's as a Clan player, similar to how it was a reason to use standard AC's in BT after more advanced AC's came out.

[FupDup]

MWO doesn't have ammo switching...but then again, Caseless AC ammo actually only worked with specialized ACs built for that ammo type anyways. This is the one time that PGI would be lore-correct to make a separate weapon type.

Caseless ACs would probably be a direct upgrade for the most part, since you get to save several tons of weight on ammo (very very important) while critical hits are overrated (especially since you don't need as many ammo boxes, so the chances of each individual box being hit is lower).

[Andi Nagasia]

this shouldnt be an ammo switching problem, as all they are just an Ammo Clone with more ammo,
unlike other Ammo Types which have Effects, Caseless ammo doenst, so it could work in MWO as it is now,
all PGI would have to do is Clone each IS ammo, giving the Clones +50%Ammo Amount @ -50% Ammo Health,
(the relation ship between STD and Caseless ammo in MWO would be that same as 1 & 1/2Tons of Ammo)

FupDup, on 06 June 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

Caseless AC ammo actually only worked with specialized ACs built for that ammo type anyways.

Caseless Ammo works with Normal IS-ACs as well,

Sarna Caseless AC(Any) said:

While caseless ammunition has become relatively well known (albeit rarely encountered) as a special munition for existing autocannon, some early attempts at developing this technology involved purpose designed systems.

early attempts created another weapon type, but this is not that,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 06 June 2017 - 08:00 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

FupDup, on 06 June 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

MWO doesn't have ammo switching...but then again, Caseless AC ammo actually only worked with specialized ACs built for that ammo type anyways. This is the one time that PGI would be lore-correct to make a separate weapon type.

Caseless ACs would probably be a direct upgrade for the most part, since you get to save several tons of weight on ammo (very very important) while critical hits are overrated (especially since you don't need as many ammo boxes, so the chances of each individual box being hit is lower).

Currently, there is a, what... *10%* chance of ammo explosion..?

Hint Hint.

[FupDup]

Andi Nagasia, on 06 June 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

this shouldnt be an ammo switching problem, as all they are just an Ammo Clone with more ammo,
unlike other Ammo Types which have Effects, Caseless ammo doenst, so it could work in MWO as it is now,
all PGI would have to do is Clone each IS ammo, giving the Clones +50%Ammo Amount @ -50% Ammo Health,
(the relation ship between STD and Caseless ammo in MWO would be that same as 1 & 1/2Tons of Ammo)



Caseless Ammo works with Normal IS-ACs as well,


early attempts created another weapon type, but this is not that,

The quote I saw on Sarna was:

Sarna said:

...The other problem is that the NAIS wasn't able to create a feed system that could handle caseless and standard ammunition. This meant that an autocannon capable of firing caseless rounds could only fire caseless rounds...

This explanation also makes it conveniently easy to implement Caseless ACs in existing MWO mechanics, but as I said above I don't think this would be a worthwhile addition since it would be hard to make Caseless ACs not be a pure upgrade.

If anything I'd rather bump up the ammo on normal ACs (and perhaps exclude Ultras from the buff).

Edited by FupDup, 06 June 2017 - 08:06 PM.

[Valhallan]

Caseless and other advanced AC ammo types like Armor penetration and precision are IS only. Only usable with AC and light AC's, one of the means to make them useful in UAC and RAC times. That being said IF we do get ammo switching, clans can still benefit since SRM's and even LRM's on both sides also have alternate ammos such as inferno/smoke/, srms also have tandem charge and magpulse while LRMS got those swarm missiles, these would make them have a use once ATM's drop (ATM's only got inferno and magpulse alternate missiles) since otherwise they would likely get obsoleted as well.

Edited by Valhallan, 06 June 2017 - 08:09 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Make it 50% to 90% chance for ammo explosion too.

[Andi Nagasia]

Prosperity Park, on 06 June 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

Currently, there is a, what... *10%* chance of ammo explosion..?

Hint Hint.

true but in this case it would be easier to Crit(as less item health, not really increased Crit Chance)

FupDup, on 06 June 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

The quote I saw on Sarna was:

This explanation also makes is conveniently easy to implement Caseless ACs in existing MWO mechanics, but as I said above I don't think this would be a worthwhile addition since it would be hard to make Caseless ACs not be a pure upgrade.

If anything I'd rather bump up the ammo on normal ACs (and perhaps exclude Ultras from the buff).

perhaps but, i even with out the Jamming on STD ACs, this would bring something interesting to the table,
as you have to sacrifice durability for more ammo, and it would be the easiest ammo to implement,

[Athom83]

They would have a jam mechanic to them, much like Ultra ACs. Technically, Caseless ACs were a separate weapon from the standard.

[LordNothing]

ammo types will never happen. its sad but it is what it is. even the new weapons will be little more than a mod job.

[El Bandito]

Gimme everything--Caseless, Armor piercing, and Precison AC ammos.

[kesmai]

The way crits work atm does make the idea not very tempting.

[Andi Nagasia]

kesmai, on 07 June 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

The way crits work atm does make the idea not very tempting.

how so? more ammo for a greater chance of them being destroyed, seems like a trade off that can be easily balanced,

[Khobai]

there would be absolutely no reason not to use caseless

because entire locations get destroyed faster than equipment in those locations get critted out.

the fact crits dont matter at all in this game would make taking caseless ammo a no brainer.

thats not what we need. what the game needs are intelligent balanced choices. theres enough compulsory autoinclude nonsense as is, especially with the new skill tree..

instead of ammo types we need an autocannon overhaul so all types of autocannons are worth consideration.

for example:

standard autocannons = slowest rate of fire, highest damage per shot, longest range and fastest velocity, lowest heat, gets bonus ammo per ton to encourage sniping.

ultra autocannons = faster rate of fire, lower damage per shot, medium range and velocity, medium heat, no longer jams and can sustain fire indefinitely (jam mechanic is ret arded and simply not needed)

rotary autocannons = absurd rate of fire and highest dps, very low damage per shot, short range, highest heat, cant sustain fire because of overheat bar.

all the autocannons would have a role then. standard autocannons would be the best for sniping, ultra autocannons would be the best for all around multipurpose use, and rotary autocannons would be the best for brawling.

Edited by Khobai, 08 June 2017 - 06:38 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

caseless ammo would only be for standard ACs,
also though you may think it wouldnt be much of a choice but i can tell you if balanced right it would be,

lets just assume Caseless ammo has
IS-Caseless-AC10 TonAmmo= (30Shots)(4Health) &
IS-Caseless-AC10 1/2TonAmmo= (15Shots)(2Health),
that would mean that any weapon on MWO could single hit Crit 1/2Ton Caseless Ammo,
and anything at or Above AC5 could single hit Crit Full-Ton Caseless Ammo,
as soon as you loose Armor you would be at Great Risk,

[Willard Phule]

Andi Nagasia, on 06 June 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

just as the Title says,
Caseless AC Ammunition, is an Ammo type that gives greater Ammo Capacity,
but is easier to Crit(in MWO its Item Health would be less than Normal Ammo)

this could give Options to people wanting to talk normal ACs,
as its a give and take choice, i feel it would add variety to MWO,

in this case, Caseless Ammo could give +50% Ammo for -50% Ammo Health,
it is an Ammo Type, but as it only changes Ammo amounts and doesnt offer effects,
it could be added to MWO easily as all PGI would need to do is Double the Ammo items,

for instance right now we have,
IS-AC10 TonAmmo= 1Ton/1Crit(20Shots)(10Health) &
IS-AC10 1/2TonAmmo= 0.5Ton/1Crit(10Shots)(5Health),
this would Add to that,
IS-Caseless-AC10 TonAmmo= 1Ton/1Crit(30Shots)(5Health) &
IS-Caseless-AC10 1/2TonAmmo= 0.5Ton/1Crit(15Shots)(3Health),

i feel this would add more options to MWO,
as well as give some options for some Mechs,
(not sure if this is only IS Only, or IS and Clan)

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks

I think it's a good idea, but I can already see some of the problems involved.....and, frankly, I'd rather see them fix the whole LBX issue first. We thought we would see a solution to the burst fire UACs with swappable ammo, but it was beyond PGI's ability to program.

Odds are that if they adopt caseless ammo, the only way they'll be able to get it done is to offer a separate AC/UACs for the IS. That means you can't use the ammo in anything but what was specifically designed for it. I don't see it happening any time soon.

[Khobai]

Quote

caseless ammo would only be for standard ACs,

not necessary since standard ACs should get extra ammo per ton anyway to incentivize using them over UACs.

[Andi Nagasia]

Willard Phule, on 08 June 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

Odds are that if they adopt caseless ammo, the only way they'll be able to get it done is to offer a separate AC/UACs for the IS. That means you can't use the ammo in anything but what was specifically designed for it. I don't see it happening any time soon.

um you cant use UAC ammo in an STD-AC with now, their ammo is already sepreate,
all this would do is add 2 new ammo options(1Ton & 1/2Ton) for Standard ACs,

Khobai, on 08 June 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

not necessary since standard ACs should get extra ammo per ton anyway to incentivize using them over UACs.

i agree, but i still think this should be a thing as it may help some builds,
and more options is always good even if they are only slightly different,

[Willard Phule]

Andi Nagasia, on 08 June 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

um you cant use UAC ammo in an STD-AC with now, their ammo is already sepreate,
all this would do is add 2 new ammo options(1Ton & 1/2Ton) for Standard ACs,

Oh, I understand the mechanics of it and it seems simple at face value. But so does the whole swappable ammo thing for LBX and a functional matchmaker. I'm pretty sure it's beyond PGI's ability.

Edited by Willard Phule, 08 June 2017 - 08:42 AM.