105 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

G4LV4TR0N, on 07 June 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

Because when you score 1500 damage in Adder or Kit Fox you're somebody. And when you score it in Linebacker you're just another nameless pilot.

So I should be giddy as hell with a 1400 in a Lolcust...

[Weeny Machine]

Ruar, on 07 June 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

The Wolfie is really just a sniper/skirmisher and it can excel in that role.

Lights take a lot of skill to use, and each chassis fills a different role. Additionally they are very dependent on team performance, similar to assaults. I assume people use the locust/commando/ACH and then get upset when the other lights don't perform as well. Kind of like playing a Kodiak and wondering why you don't get the same score in a Stalker.

i think they really need to do a balance pass on lights. Focus more on roles for each chassis, ensure there are rewards based on that role, ensure the mech can perform the role, and have some text in the game explaining that role. Once expectations are mitigated some then I doubt we would see so many light pilots complaining. As it stands it seems most light pilots want to run around being nearly untouchable while doing 600-700 dmg per match. (I'm not saying this is you, just a summary of threads I've been reading over the past six months).

Just a question and I really isn't meant as a personal attack: you have spoken now 2 times about "untouchable" lights. The only lights which seem to qualify for that are the Commando and Locust. The rest seems to be even fragile considering the alphas slung around (especially pinpoint damage). I have no problems hitting them and most others don't seem to have problems either - potatoes aside. So, what do you mean with those "untouchable" lights? Chassis etc...

I have no Javelin but they seem to have great hitboxes, though.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 07 June 2017 - 08:34 AM.

[Xiphias]

G4LV4TR0N, on 07 June 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

Because when you score 1500 damage in Adder or Kit Fox you're somebody. And when you score it in Linebacker you're just another nameless pilot.

Sure, I play light mechs all the time because I like light mechs. My point is that if you are trying to win you are better off taking a Linebacker though.

[Ultimax]

ShoX, on 07 June 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

Another problem is that the arguably best support light in the game, Purifier /w AMS arm, is a hero mech and clocks in at 10$.
I'm loving it, but I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to play support, pay the hero tax or both.

There is also the fact that many teammates would massively prefer that you "support" them by shooting effective weapons at the same target as them so the targets die faster - and also having either speed or armor to allow you to draw and survive your own fair share of incoming damage, so not all of it can easily be focused on them as higher priority before the enemy team bothers to clean up by killing slow lights with lots of AMS and weak weaponry.

All of this is due to the pretty outlandish preference some players seem to have for winning as opposed to losing.

[Requiemking]

Ruar, on 07 June 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

And yet.... a lot of people think lights are still very strong. I think the problem is the smaller ones you talk about are actually OP and need to be more like the bigger lights.

Lights go plenty fast enough. The problem is the OP ones let you get away with things that lights aren't really supposed to do . The balanced lights then get played incorrectly and people feel like they are too slow and not agile enough.

Except, most of the 30-35 ton Lights, with the exception of a couple, are supposed to be knife-fighters, leveraging agility and fast-cycling weapons to be able to chew through the armor of much less agile targets. Problem? There are more than a few Forumwarrior factions who don't take too kindly to this. To them Lights are nothing more than training mechs, scouts, and cannon fodder. It's thanks to them that the heavier Lights are in the terribad state they are in now.

Xiphias, on 07 June 2017 - 07:29 AM, said:

Lights should be agile and hard to hit because that's the role they play in this game. If you nerf them to the point where they are weaker mediums people are just going to play mediums instead. Anyone who thinks lights are OP should be forced to play in nothing buy lights for a month to get a feel for what it takes to put up good numbers in a light. It's far easier in heavy.

Lights are underplayed because they require more effort to get results and because as a class they consistently underscore all other classes. Just sort the leaderboards by match score and select different weight classes to see this.

I'm actually working on an, er, "educational" challenge specifically for this.

[Dogstar]

I play lights a fair bit and they are pretty hit and miss - in a good game you will do well but it only takes a little bit of bad luck or inattention and you're match goes straight into the kazi.

Basic Rules: Endo-steel and XL is required for IS mechs and you need to do at least 120ish kph, strip arm armour, and head armour too where necessary to have more weight for firepower.

If I can I fit plenty of jump jets so I can get to places that others can't.

I quite enjoy using the Firestarter with a mini version of the B33f's 'flamer Nova' build - fill one arm with Flamers and the rest with pulse lasers and see if you can do headshots on shutdown mechs. I've taken out a couple that way so far but it is an unreliable tactic.

Javelins I play as either ERLL sniper laser boats or SRM brawlers - there's not a lot of choice here as they don't do LRMs very well due to not enough ammo.

With the Panther I go for ERLL/LPL, every time I try PPC it never works - probably because I'm a lousy shot

Spider/Raven/Wolfhound basically use the same variations of laserboats - althouhg I do have one flamer Wolfhound like the Firestarter

[Mcgral18]

It may have something to do with the Best Light Mech in the Game being a 40 ( or 45) ton Medium mech.

Ultimax, on 07 June 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

There is also the fact that many teammates would massively prefer that you "support" them by shooting effective weapons at the same target as them so the targets die faster - and also having either speed or armor to allow you to draw and survive your own fair share of incoming damage, so not all of it can easily be focused on them as higher priority before the enemy team bothers to clean up by killing slow lights with lots of AMS and weak weaponry.

All of this is due to the pretty outlandish preference some players seem to have for winning as opposed to losing.

I mean, the Purifier is also one of those. It doubles the firepower, allowing for both heatsink and SPL boating
Paywall plz

[Nightbird]

Lights were nerfed in the skill tree patch because the light population was too high prior, sometimes breaking through to double digit percentages.

[Relishcakes]

Bush Hopper, on 07 June 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Just a question and I really isn't meant as a personal attack: you have spoken now 2 times about "untouchable" lights. The only lights which seem to qualify for that are the Commando and Locust. The rest seems to be even fragile considering the alphas slung around (especially pinpoint damage). I have no problems hitting them and most others don't seem to have problems either - potatoes aside. So, what do you mean with those "untouchable" lights? Chassis etc...

I have no Javelin but they seem to have great hitboxes, though.

I havent tried the jav myself preferring my little raven 4x. Its a bit large for a light, BUT if you keep that in mind while playing and know the maps even OK you shouldnt have too much an issue. I keep 2 MLAS and 2machine guns so i can deal damage to damn near anything but i think the "untoouchable" lights they are talkinga bout are essentially the locust and maybe the spider as they are pretty hard to keep a good bead on if the pilot doesnt suck. Usually if its a locust I wont bother making them a target because I can be of more use distracting the heavies/assaults and poking them over and over than chasing down the things i cant even hope to catch.

[HGAK47]

Lights are still ok - well the good lights are still good in the right hands but being really honest I feel like the lights benefitted the least from the skill tree.

Survival tree doesnt offer enough for lights although others seem to like it. You can go all in the firepower tree with ops if you like I spose. Main problem is trying to get agility back as well as ECM to previous levels on the PB for instance, doesnt leave much left to play with.

[o0m9]

Most of the lights are pretty bad, the 35 tonners especially.

Hell, the Panther has about twice the frontal silhouette of the Nova, and I'm pretty sure it's about the size of the Blackjack while having worse hardpoint locations.

[Snazzy Dragon]

I imagine that with laser durations being as low as they currently are lights feel much worse to play.

[B0oN]

For Sarah, but with 4 MPLs on it .

<3

[dario03]

o0m9, on 07 June 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

Most of the lights are pretty bad, the 35 tonners especially.

Hell, the Panther has about twice the frontal silhouette of the Nova, and I'm pretty sure it's about the size of the Blackjack while having worse hardpoint locations.

It also has worse agility (in every way but decel) than a few heavy mechs.

[Ruar]

Bush Hopper, on 07 June 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

Just a question and I really isn't meant as a personal attack: you have spoken now 2 times about "untouchable" lights. The only lights which seem to qualify for that are the Commando and Locust. The rest seems to be even fragile considering the alphas slung around (especially pinpoint damage). I have no problems hitting them and most others don't seem to have problems either - potatoes aside. So, what do you mean with those "untouchable" lights? Chassis etc...

I have no Javelin but they seem to have great hitboxes, though.

Primarily locust, commando and ACH are the ones I think of when I'm talking about the ones with hit reg issues. By untouchable I mean you shoot, it looks like you hit on your screen, you get the hit indicator, and yet barely any damage is listed. Chasing a locust putting shot after shot into them only to see their ragdoll go from yellow to orange.

Yes, if you catch one standing still they die fast, but getting them to stand still takes a lot more fire than on other mechs. It's not a "learn to aim because the light is zig zagging" kind of thing. It's not a long laser burn spreading damage all over kind of thing. It's a "I just watched a 40pt strike hit the torso of that locust and the armor barely even changed" kind of problem.

It's an issue with the way the game records damage and I assume the problem is because of poor hit registration because the lights move so fast the game just can't keep up. The damage is recorded when the light is standing still or head on/running straight away but the damage isn't recorded when the light has any kind of lateral drift in it's movement.


I've played some lights. Mainly a Pirate's Bane so I can better understand what it's like for that light pilot and how to better counter lights. That said, I know I'm not a good light pilot. It doesn't fit how I like to play. I stop/start way too much to truly use a light effectively. Just because I don't play one regularly doesn't mean I can't understand them. I can asses their strengths and weaknesses even if I'm not very good with one. A lot of it is from reading what others say, watching video's, playing them myself, and seeing how they behave in game. The biggest problem I see when discussing this topic is the people who are good at piloting light mechs don't want to hear that there is a problem with some of the light mechs. They are just as biased as they accuse others of being. Not saying that is you, but in general.

[Weeny Machine]

@Ruar: I think everyone with a sense agrees with you on regarding the size problems of the locust and commando. It is not even a matter of hiting but that the damage is hardly recorded. I put 3 x 4 MPL in a CT of a locust beelining me to see that he got a yellow CT. I mean.../shrug

The other lights, especially the 35t mechs, are on the other end of the scale, though: they feel very fragile. And, as I said already, their agility and speed is nowhere enough to compensate for all their inherent drawbacks they have.

[Ruar]

Bush Hopper, on 07 June 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

@Ruar: I think everyone with a sense agrees with you on regarding the size problems of the locust and commando. It is not even a matter of hiting but that the damage is hardly recorded. I put 3 x 4 MPL in a CT of a locust beelining me to see that he got a yellow CT. I mean.../shrug

The other lights, especially the 35t mechs, are on the other end of the scale, though: they feel very fragile. And, as I said already, their agility and speed is nowhere enough to compensate for all their inherent drawbacks they have.

Their agility didn't get nerfed, neither did their speed. The problem with speeding them up is you mess up hit registration. I think the problem is people expect the larger lights to be speed boats doing significant damage with small lasers and MGs when they should be designed around skirmishing/sniping/flanking. Instead of speed and agility they could probably use an armor upgrade to let them fill that role.

[Exilyth]

Playing a light puts a light on the other team, playing a fast medium/heavy does not.

Most IS lights require an upgraded XL engine to be good, which is a large investment to some, especially new players.

[dario03]

Exilyth, on 07 June 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

Playing a light puts a light on the other team, playing a fast medium/heavy does not.

Most IS lights require an upgraded XL engine to be good, which is a large investment to some, especially new players.

Not if you're in group queue. Might be why it isn't uncommon to not see lights in group queue.

[FupDup]

It's pretty much always been low, and probably always will be since the people who want lights improved are a "vocal minority."