361 replies to this topic

[Requiemking]

I'm not certain how I feel about the IIC mechs themselves. I don't mind some of the "IIC-esque" mechs like the Great Wyrm(effectively a Dragon IIC) and the Conjuror(A Wolverine IIC in all but name), but some of the IICs are powercreep heaven(Rifleman IIC and Warhammer IIC) while some of them are a little more on the fence(Griffin IIC, Shadowhawk IIC).

[Imperius]

Cathy, on 14 June 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

Burn it with fire !

You want to burn everything spare us your feedback if it's negative like that.

[Gas Guzzler]

Blood Asp first

[Battlemaster56]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 June 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

Blood Asp first

Love to see that mech in the game, and love them to make hero based off the Star Adder on MA2. (Also I know Star Adder is a clan faction, but it's possible to build it on the ASP)

[Internal Obedience XIII-omega]

Arnold The Governator, on 13 June 2017 - 08:40 PM, said:

Q: So it's a dedicated anti-air mech. Why exactly should we have an anti-air mech in a game that has well, no aircraft in it?

A: The Rifleman IIC platform goes above and beyond it's anti-air role and is a formidable clan battlemech. Some label it as a pocket assault since it's prime armament has a powerful quad clan large pulse laser build. When this mech was first introduced by Victor Musical Industries in table top, the mech's original loadout consisted of 20 DHS and simply 4 cLPL's. The mech was so powerful that they had to remove 1 DHS, in favor for a clan beagle active probe and a single back up ER small laser in the head. The 19 DHS's now prevent it from successfully alphaing without any heat penalties per round.

The removal of 1 DHS was not the result of it being powerful. In the older rules for mech construction stated that ES was half the weight of standard Internal Structure. In this case, the Rifleman llc's internal would weigh only 3.25 tons. Overall weight was 64.25 tons.

The revised construction rules stated that any equipment that was cut in half would be rounded up. So anything that was .25 or .75 would be .5 or 1 respectively.

Now thats part of the revision for the Rifleman. The true revision came down to placing in the Active probe to reflect the dome. By removing 1 DHS, this freed up a crit slot and was filled by that one ER small laser and again using that left over tonnage.

Personally i was happier with the 64.25 ton weight. even though there was no more critical slots to use that left over .75. Even with the revised construction rules that still left .25 tons.

Truly this mech is powerful on TT. But the reduction of a DHS was not the result.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Internal Obedience XIII-omega, on 14 June 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

The removal of 1 DHS was not the result of it being powerful. In the older rules for mech construction stated that ES was half the weight of standard Internal Structure. In this case, the Rifleman llc's internal would weigh only 3.25 tons. Overall weight was 64.25 tons.

The revised construction rules stated that any equipment that was cut in half would be rounded up. So anything that was .25 or .75 would be .5 or 1 respectively.

Now thats part of the revision for the Rifleman. The true revision came down to placing in the Active probe to reflect the dome. By removing 1 DHS, this freed up a crit slot and was filled by that one ER small laser and again using that left over tonnage.

Personally i was happier with the 64.25 ton weight. even though there was no more critical slots to use that left over .75. Even with the revised construction rules that still left .25 tons.

Truly this mech is powerful on TT. But the reduction of a DHS was not the result.

Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up. I will revise what I said since I actually thought it was due to how well the 20 DHS (40 altogether) could dissipate the heat so quickly on table top.

[pbiggz]

i wouldnt be opposed though i personally prefer the whammy. That said the whammy iic is an 80 tonner so they dont really clash. why not both?

[Felicitatem Parco]

I would buy another Clan IIC pack for a dollar...

Really want that Rifleman. I like Jagers and Riflemen, and a Clan version would be much appreciated.

[VirtualSmitty]

W need the IS MAD2 first.

[Mechteric]

Precentor Martial Donald J Trump, on 15 June 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

W need the IS MAD2 first.

Marauder II wasn't created until 3012, which is after Rifleman IIC (2845) and Warhammer IIC (2829)

[Valdarion Silarius]

Requiemking, on 14 June 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

I'm not certain how I feel about the IIC mechs themselves. I don't mind some of the "IIC-esque" mechs like the Great Wyrm(effectively a Dragon IIC) and the Conjuror(A Wolverine IIC in all but name), but some of the IICs are powercreep heaven(Rifleman IIC and Warhammer IIC) while some of them are a little more on the fence(Griffin IIC, Shadowhawk IIC).

I wouldn't go and call the Rifleman IIC and the Warhammer IIC power creep heaven mechs. They are indeed very powerful mechs, and will not probably be hit with the nerf hammer for 1 or 2 months after they drop in game, but they will probably get the MAD-IIC treatment later on. A big factor that will also come into play is their hitbox geometry and how high the RFL-IIC's arm mounts will be ( they will probably be considerably high) and how they design the WHM-IIC. I'm going to guess they will go with the reseen looks, but I hope they personally make them look more unseenish (as in the original image I used for the RFL-IIC for the thread).

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 15 June 2017 - 01:19 PM.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Arnold The Governator, on 14 June 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

Not true. If you even bothered to take a look at the variants on the mech list you would know that the RFL-IIC 2 is a ballistics boat. With the upcoming civil war tech, variant 3 will be a mixture of ballistics + energy. Variant 4 is a mix of missiles + energy. So the only true laser vomit builds for the RFL-IIC is the prime and variants 5 & 7 (which 5 and 7 will not be in game since it uses improved jump jets and plasma cannons).

Going beyond the civil war tech era variants 6 and 8 are more of a diverse mix of weaponry. Arguably the best stock builds for the mech are the Prime and 8. However, there will be some very interesting builds to come from the RFL-IIC since it has both long range support and brawling capabilities.

So prime is laser vomit, another will be boating ballistics, another will be ppc and gauss, and another can be laser vomit with some missiles. So what exactly is unique about this mech that it will bring to the table, which was basically my point? I wouldn't care if they add it in (more mechs the merrier), but the OP was stating that it offers something unique, and at this point that is going to be hard to do for any mechs added from now on with the variety already available for both factions. Mostly future mech releases are just going to be about popularity and PGI tyring to use that to make sells.

[Internal Obedience XIII-omega]

Arnold The Governator, on 15 June 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up. I will revise what I said since I actually thought it was due to how well the 20 DHS (40 altogether) could dissipate the heat so quickly on table top.

What i did to maintain the 20 DHS i used a 260XL engine to bring up my speed and added an additional jump jet, dropped the AP. I know the risk of the XL engine and quite used to it anyways. Firing pattern was pretty much 4/3/4/3/4/3... Try deploying a star, now that was fun lol.

[Requiemking]

Internal Obedience XIII-omega, on 15 June 2017 - 09:44 PM, said:

What i did to maintain the 20 DHS i used a 260XL engine to bring up my speed and added an additional jump jet, dropped the AP. I know the risk of the XL engine and quite used to it anyways. Firing pattern was pretty much 4/3/4/3/4/3... Try deploying a star, now that was fun lol.

If I am remembering correctly there is an old TT custom revolving around the Rifleman IIC Prime. What was it again? Oh yes, "If a player fields more than one Rifleman IIC Prime, his opponent is well within his rights to throw a chair at the offending player".

[El Bandito]

Tincan Nightmare, on 15 June 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

So prime is laser vomit, another will be boating ballistics, another will be ppc and gauss, and another can be laser vomit with some missiles. So what exactly is unique about this mech that it will bring to the table, which was basically my point? I wouldn't care if they add it in (more mechs the merrier), but the OP was stating that it offers something unique, and at this point that is going to be hard to do for any mechs added from now on with the variety already available for both factions. Mostly future mech releases are just going to be about popularity and PGI tyring to use that to make sells.

Of course Rifleman IIC is unique. No other Clan heavy mech has arm mounts as high as it.

[Tincan Nightmare]

El Bandito, on 15 June 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Of course Rifleman IIC is unique. No other Clan heavy mech has arm mounts as high as it.

Yah but with that big 'sombrero' radar assembly, it might have similar problems to the Annihilator with it's 'periscope' cockpit, exposing more of the torso than desired to get those mounts into play. It wouldn't be 'bad' by any means, but it would lower the value of those high mounts slightly, since all the artwork shows that saucer going from shoulder to shoulder above the head.

Also, the EBJ has some pretty high arm mounts in relation to its torso/cockpit. Depending on how they model the IIC, those mounts may not be all that unique. Course the Rifleman wouldn't be an Omni, so it would have better options in customization.

[Internal Obedience XIII-omega]

Requiemking, on 15 June 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

If I am remembering correctly there is an old TT custom revolving around the Rifleman IIC Prime. What was it again? Oh yes, "If a player fields more than one Rifleman IIC Prime, his opponent is well within his rights to throw a chair at the offending player".

Well... he didnt exactly throw a chair at me, his dice did most of the talking and ultimately i lost the match. He was a Gauss Rifle freak and his dice rolling skills were pretty hard to beat. Nonetheless it was a humorous match.

[El Bandito]

Tincan Nightmare, on 15 June 2017 - 11:39 PM, said:

Yah but with that big 'sombrero' radar assembly, it might have similar problems to the Annihilator with it's 'periscope' cockpit, exposing more of the torso than desired to get those mounts into play. It wouldn't be 'bad' by any means, but it would lower the value of those high mounts slightly, since all the artwork shows that saucer going from shoulder to shoulder above the head.

Also, the EBJ has some pretty high arm mounts in relation to its torso/cockpit. Depending on how they model the IIC, those mounts may not be all that unique. Course the Rifleman wouldn't be an Omni, so it would have better options in customization.

MWO is MP only FPS game. You can bet MWO's Rifleman IIC will have reduced antenna head.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Tincan Nightmare, on 15 June 2017 - 11:39 PM, said:

Yah but with that big 'sombrero' radar assembly, it might have similar problems to the Annihilator with it's 'periscope' cockpit, exposing more of the torso than desired to get those mounts into play. It wouldn't be 'bad' by any means, but it would lower the value of those high mounts slightly, since all the artwork shows that saucer going from shoulder to shoulder above the head.

Also, the EBJ has some pretty high arm mounts in relation to its torso/cockpit. Depending on how they model the IIC, those mounts may not be all that unique. Course the Rifleman wouldn't be an Omni, so it would have better options in customization.

I think the Rifleman IIC would have a smaller width torso profile as well. Since it's difficult to compare the Ebon Jaguar to a mech that doesn't have any MW:O depictions, I think the EBJ has a relatively wider torso section compared to the RFL-IIC. That would be one other advantage that I could see having a smaller torso hit box area.






Since the Ebon Jag's head is somewhat smooshed into it's torso region, we will just have to wait and see what PGI would do with the Rifleman IIC's design.

El Bandito, on 16 June 2017 - 01:14 AM, said:

MWO is MP only FPS game. You can bet MWO's Rifleman IIC will have reduced antenna head.

I'm starting to wonder if the larger radar dish might be a necessary handicap for the RFL-IIC since it might be a potentially power creep mech. As much as I like the bigger radar dish, PGI will probably go with the small radar for what you said so that it doesn't interfere with the torso hitboxes. I personally hope they go with the original bulky mech artwork depiction from Rick Harris, while adding a few Alex touch ups here and there to the overall design.

[Battlemaster56]

Arnold The Governator, on 16 June 2017 - 08:55 AM, said:

I think the Rifleman IIC would have a smaller width torso profile as well. Since it's difficult to compare the Ebon Jaguar to a mech that doesn't have any MW:O depictions, I think the EBJ has a relatively wider torso section compared to the RFL-IIC. That would be one other advantage that I could see having a smaller torso hit box area.






Since the Ebon Jag's head is somewhat smooshed into it's torso region, we will just have to wait and see what PGI would do with the Rifleman IIC's design.



I'm starting to wonder if the larger radar dish might be a necessary handicap for the RFL-IIC since it might be a potentially power creep mech. As much as I like the bigger radar dish, PGI will probably go with the small radar for what you said so that it doesn't interfere with the torso hitboxes. I personally hope they go with the original bulky mech artwork depiction from Rick Harris, while adding a few Alex touch ups here and there to the overall design.

I believe it be best to it have around a medium(ish) Sombrero hat instead a large one, if announced PGI (Mostly likely) will give it a small engine cap just to curve it's potential powercreep, and would love to see the artwork Alex will bring out.