133 replies to this topic

[JediPanther]

El Bandito, on 15 June 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

Sounds like you should drive the Jester instead.

i do and not very well. Been piloting my lights way to much it's going to take some time to get use to my cats again. Only two cats i don't have are the a1(c) and BB.

JESTER 196 87 108 0.81 118 135 0.87 38,482 155,424
CPLT-C1 528 254 263 0.97 385 331 1.16 153,565 457,328

[JediPanther]

Kubernetes, on 15 June 2017 - 11:37 PM, said:

It's kinda wack that 80% of your free tonnage is spent on "bait" and only a minimal amount on real weapons.

It's a video game none of the weapons are "real." I guess you think of ac 20 and 3-4 tons of ammo more "real" than a lrm 15 and 3-4 tons ammo. Both "cost" weight and ammo. Both do damage. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Tell me of master What are "real weapons."

Tell me is the tons of a er ll on a lct-1v a minimal amount of weapons? Maybe that 1v should just ram enemies instead. What exactly is the "optimal amount on real weapons?"

[JediPanther]

Escef, on 15 June 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:

No, I wouldn't. I posted a video in this thread where my ALRM50 BLR-1S got 3 of the 5 kills it scored with the quad mediums. They're great for point defense and to finish off wounded mechs.

That they are hence what I said. I guess here you have to be literal with every thing because people can't infer your meaning. I should have said that they were great for offensive and defensive purposes when combined with lrms instead.

[Shifty McSwift]

To the title question;

Probably because both getting hit by them and watching their usage in the majority is hard for many of the more "hardworking" roles to bear. I imagine after flying all over the map at breakneck speeds dodging bullets doing flips and stabbing backs it is just too sharp of a change in pace to watch a guy standing still waiting for red boxes to appear.

Just saiyan.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

The inviolate law of successful LRMishing

Should be: "If you can't effectively kill someone without your LRMs, you have too many LRMs."

The number of people I've spectated that I wanted to slap through the monitor would be far less if most of them had just mounted 5-10 tubes less and added a few lasers, so they'd have had a chance inside of 180m.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

That they are hence what I said. I guess here you have to be literal with every thing because people can't infer your meaning. I should have said that they were great for offensive and defensive purposes when combined with lrms instead.

IS LRMs and medium lasers go together like peanut butter and jelly, honestly. The original poster child is the Catapult, but it's universal. Secondary guns aren't just for point defense, but they're useful for saving ammo when you're finishing off crippled targets or sections and medium lasers are as efficient as it gets for the ranges involved.

[Bishop Steiner]

Brain Cancer, on 16 June 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

IS LRMs and medium lasers go together like peanut butter and jelly, honestly. The original poster child is the Catapult, but it's universal. Secondary guns aren't just for point defense, but they're useful for saving ammo when you're finishing off crippled targets or sections and medium lasers are as efficient as it gets for the ranges involved.

Clan LuRM n Lazors work pretty good, too, TBH. My MDD is plenty happy with 2xLRM20, 4x ERMLs, and mixing and matching as opportunity and heat presents. Ditto the "Super Stock" CPLT C1 (add Artemis, extra ammo, buff the armor and DHS, leave the rest as is)

[Brain Cancer]

Oh, certainly. You can also see Clan lurmboats run the gamut- I frequently strap an LPL on, but you'll see people with CSPL, CERSL, ERMLs or even MPLs depending on taste. Micros are going to be a niche choice though, I think.

[Cementi]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 June 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

they also don't show how certain Tryhards use their entire pug teams as meatshields while holding back and sniping, etc to pad their stats.

*cough* Mcgral *cough*

[Bishop Steiner]

Cementi, on 16 June 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

*cough* Mcgral *cough*

Eh, could list quite a few Forumites I have witnessed doing it, and other notables who will drop with their little 4 Man clique then refuse to acknowledge the other 8 on the team, unless it's to complain after how they didn't do what they needed them to do...
because the team is supposed to pick up on their plan and greatness via osmosis, apparently.

SMH

[Kubernetes]

JediPanther, on 16 June 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

It's a video game none of the weapons are "real." I guess you think of ac 20 and 3-4 tons of ammo more "real" than a lrm 15 and 3-4 tons ammo. Both "cost" weight and ammo. Both do damage. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Tell me of master What are "real weapons."

Tell me is the tons of a er ll on a lct-1v a minimal amount of weapons? Maybe that 1v should just ram enemies instead. What exactly is the "optimal amount on real weapons?"

You really want to get into dumb semantics? Okay, how about "effective weapons," better? LRMs are turrible. The AC20 is a brutal and efficient killer compared to any LRM rack.

[Cementi]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 June 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

Eh, could list quite a few Forumites I have witnessed doing it, and other notables who will drop with their little 4 Man clique then refuse to acknowledge the other 8 on the team, unless it's to complain after how they didn't do what they needed them to do...
because the team is supposed to pick up on their plan and greatness via osmosis, apparently.

SMH

Heh that happened to me the other day actually. Had a 6 man, the two man and then a 4 man of some unit that would not respond on coms and barely moved from spawn. They did not engage till the other 8 of us were dead. I just shook my head. Their stats looked good though as they got lots of kills. Still lost the match though.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kubernetes, on 16 June 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

You really want to get into dumb semantics? Okay, how about "effective weapons," better? LRMs are turrible. The AC20 is a brutal and efficient killer compared to any LRM rack.

I find there are too many variables to call absolutes on this. MAybe in 12v12 uber comp FW play one can. But while I would generally agree a single LRM rack is less than effective, I do run 2 specifical builds that very much do use them effectively, my VND-1AA has always suited my flanker playstyle better with an aLRM15 and 4x MLs than the std vanilla PPC Poptart does, and my ZEU-6S has one to compliment it's AC10, 4x MPL and large engine.

I would never call them meta, but in my 100s of matches in each, I settled on it as the best use of the tonnage for me.

I think the Binary/Black & White worldview many competitive players ram down on everyone in everything is as much the issue as what is actually being said at times. Especially since 95% of us are not seeing and plying the same game they are, 95% of the time.

[Brain Cancer]

I'll never call LRMs "efficient". Any spread weapon, by it's nature is not efficient as the most efficient weapon is the one that puts 100% of it's damage into the kill zone.

Even with spread weapons, the ones where you can direct/reduce spread are more efficient than ones you can't. You can aim an LB-X or get closer to shrink the number of locations hit with damage, likewise SRMs.

LRMs get Artemis for direct fire and can't actually aim where damage goes, plus they automatically waste some damage regardless on complete misses. They are the least efficient spread weapon of the lot.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cementi, on 16 June 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Heh that happened to me the other day actually. Had a 6 man, the two man and then a 4 man of some unit that would not respond on coms and barely moved from spawn. They did not engage till the other 8 of us were dead. I just shook my head. Their stats looked good though as they got lots of kills. Still lost the match though.

Sometimes I think "Church of Skill" needs to be replaced by "Church of Peen".

Brain Cancer, on 16 June 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'll never call LRMs "efficient". Any spread weapon, by it's nature is not efficient as the most efficient weapon is the one that puts 100% of it's damage into the kill zone.

Even with spread weapons, the ones where you can direct/reduce spread are more efficient than ones you can't. You can aim an LB-X or get closer to shrink the number of locations hit with damage, likewise SRMs.

LRMs get Artemis for direct fire and can't actually aim where damage goes, plus they automatically waste some damage regardless on complete misses. They are the least efficient spread weapon of the lot.

This is true. Doesn't mean they can't be used efficiently or effectively. What is more efficient for saving your team mate who got jumped other side of the hill by a pair of Lights? Using his targeting and LRMs while you try to get an actual LoS solution, or staring at his health monitor while he dies because your PPFLD weapons can't get around that hill to help him.

Like I stated, too many variables in any game for binary statements.

[KekistanWillRiseAgain]

Cementi, on 16 June 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

*cough* Mcgral *cough*

Not even in the top 50 of people I hate for doing it... heck he is not even usually doing it

[Bishop Steiner]

KekistanWillRiseAgain, on 16 June 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

Not even in the top 50 of people I hate for doing it... heck he is not even usually doing it

lot of folk I have seen do it, and a lot of reasons of late I am not exactly a McGral fan, but tbh, this isn't one of them (I am even guilty of it if the team insists on being stupid enough). Compared to other notable El Playeros-like, I'd call him a minimal offender at this.

[Cementi]

KekistanWillRiseAgain, on 16 June 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

Not even in the top 50 of people I hate for doing it... heck he is not even usually doing it

Likely true, I just find it funny when LRM haters post about LRMers hiding in the back when I have seen them do it in matches. Those that are vocal about it just tend to stick in my mind so when I see them I remember them.

I do not often run brawl builds but I have been accused of it in the past as well. Usually when the team wants to play ridge hump for 10 mins. Sorry if I do not poke out to shoot something I cannot possibly hurt due to range. It is why I tend to run alot of frankenstein builds as I find general purpose stuff more fun than hiding in the corner because I cannot shoot anything at the range the team has chosen to engage.

[L1f3H4ck]

Monkey Lover, on 15 June 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

Because most people dont pull 1300dmg and even with 1300dmg that's all spread out. I might count it worth 400-500 worth of laser /ac dmg.

Yesterday I saw a some heavy clan mech I forget what one with 3x lrm 20. He rained on a red core grasshopper with 3 or 4 shots of 60lrms before the grasshopper got to cover. He couldn't even kill the red core mech. If the guy had a few medium lasers he would have died.

People want to win and take lrms isn't the way to do it. So they get mad. Best thing to do is join a group.

Yeah, LRM damage only counts half, cuz every Laser, AC round and SRM always hits CT, unless the target runs an IS XL, then it hits ST and ST only. Or head.

Nonsense aside, ppl just hate getting lurmed to death. It's like playing vs. a Stasis deck.

[Escef]

JediPanther, on 16 June 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

That they are hence what I said. I guess here you have to be literal with every thing because people can't infer your meaning. I should have said that they were great for offensive and defensive purposes when combined with lrms instead.

I know what you said, but you said it at me, and I'm like, why are you saying this to me, of all people?