78 replies to this topic

[kyfire]

Jman5, on 16 June 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

So just to re-iterate my point. I wrote this about 8 hours ago. Since then the leaderboard has gone from 25,370 people to 25,624 people. About 250 more people than before.

Now I would be surprised if we hit population numbers that match last month. We hit peak numbers we haven't seen in a year. However, I don't think you should count the season numbers until it ends.

One thing that hasn't been brought up is that, you MUST play 10 matches before you are ranked on the leader board. So there are likely a large number of players that haven't reached the 10 match requirement yet. BTW, for those that don't remember the 10 match reqirement was made to stop the 1 game wonders from gaming the Leader Board.

[Coolant]

The Jerol, on 16 June 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

and a skill tree with over 250 choices to make per mech,

I know, isn't it glorious?!

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Apparently, this thread is now a catch-all gripe fest. Are we really going to ascribe the lower numbers this season to nerfs that haven't happened yet and were just announced yesterday?

Also, I love the "reasonable" tone of a lot of ST complainers around here, who always think they're making their case stronger by saying: "I know there are good reasons for all of this and I'm being totally irrational, but here are the reasons I hate the skill tree." and "If you don't agree, no problem, just keep it to yourself."

1) You're being irrational. That's your problem, you admit it, and ultimately it negates any and all complaints you have.
2) If you don't want anyone to express their differing opinion, why did you post your opinion in an online forum?

Every time I read a "I don't want to bother with the new skill tree" post, I gauge how many mechs they could skill-up in the time it took to write it. Don't forget to add time for the really well-written ones you know the poster went back and proof-read before submitting.

Finally, I find it vexing, all the people who "don't play anymore" but love to cruise the forums, imposing their vision of what this game should be on the rest of us who do still play.

[Mystere]

PhoenixFire55, on 17 June 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

Stop milking people with MechPaks^TM and actually make a decent game?

Unfortunately, there are enough very satisfied PokeMech collectors for PGI to do so.

kyfire, on 17 June 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

One thing that hasn't been brought up is that, you MUST play 10 matches before you are ranked on the leader board. So there are likely a large number of players that haven't reached the 10 match requirement yet. BTW, for those that don't remember the 10 match reqirement was made to stop the 1 game wonders from gaming the Leader Board.

As if that was a real problem making it priority #1 above all else.

[Ruar]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 17 June 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

Every time I read a "I don't want to bother with the new skill tree" post, I gauge how many mechs they could skill-up in the time it took to write it. Don't forget to add time for the really well-written ones you know the poster went back and proof-read before submitting.

Finally, I find it vexing, all the people who "don't play anymore" but love to cruise the forums, imposing their vision of what this game should be on the rest of us who do still play.

Using the skill tree isn't very fun. It doesn't really matter if someone could have been in game selecting 10-15 nodes instead of typing on the forums if that person doesn't like using the ST. Their time spent on the forums is more enjoyable than the time spent in the game.

As for talking on the forums... as long as the feedback has a solution to fix the problem that is causing people to not want to play then it's a valid discussion. Your point has merit if all the person does is complain with no solution. The ones who still visit the forum have a chance of coming back to the game. They want to come back to the game, but they want the game to be fun for them at the same time. Their feedback offers PGI a chance to regain a customer and so such comments can have value.

[kyfire]

Mystere, on 17 June 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Unfortunately, there are enough very satisfied PokeMech collectors for PGI to do so.



As if that was a real problem making it priority #1 above all else.

I can agree with you, the 1 hit wonders weren't a issue (at least for me) on the leader boards. My point those was that until a player reaches the 10 match played requirement they won't show up on the leader board. Therefore basing the player population on the leader board is false.

[Ruar]

kyfire, on 17 June 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

I can agree with you, the 1 hit wonders weren't a issue (at least for me) on the leader boards. My point those was that until a player reaches the 10 match played requirement they won't show up on the leader board. Therefore basing the player population on the leader board is false.

It's not false, it just has to be at the conclusion of the season. You can't compare a season in progress with a season completed due to the 10 game requirement.

Edited by Ruar, 17 June 2017 - 09:07 AM.

[kyfire]

Ruar, on 17 June 2017 - 09:07 AM, said:

It's not false, it just has to be at the conclusion of the season. You can't compare a season in progress with a season completed due to the 10 game requirement.

True, but until the end of the season it is a false metric.

[Ruar]

kyfire, on 17 June 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

True, but until the end of the season it is a false metric.

Agreed, and it will be interesting to see how much of a change happens between the middle of the season and the end.

On the other hand, if it takes someone a full month to put in 10 matches then they aren't really contributing to the game much anyway. Which could be used in an argument, but you'd have to know the numbers for the halfway point in the previous seasons to have a justifiable conclusion instead of merely an assumption.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Ruar, on 17 June 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

Their time spent on the forums is more enjoyable than the time spent in the game.

How much derision is pointed at PGI devs who find time spent coding their game more rewarding than time spent playing it?

Ruar, on 17 June 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

Your point has merit if all the person does is complain with no solution.

My point has merit if all the person does is complain that PGI didn't embrace their solution.

Ruar, on 17 June 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

Using the skill tree isn't very fun.

You are certainly entitled to that opinion, so long as you realize that's all it is. Load screens and waiting for connections in the drop lobby aren't fun. Assigning armor to my mech's left arm doesn't exactly make me squee with delight, either. We can do this all day...

[Ruar]

When your job is to code then it doesn't matter if you have fun or not. You agreed to do the job. If you don't like it then get a new job that you do enjoy. Your argument here does not apply.

And if their solution makes more sense than the one PGI used? It's valid. Not sure why you are trying to nitpick this part since I'm actually agreeing with you that people who complain with no solutions offered are wrong.

So what if it's just my opinion? Based on the feedback about the ST it's not just my opinion but the opinion of a large chunk of the people who took time to comment on the ST design. It's not fun to use. There will be some people who enjoy it, but there are some people who enjoy getting their junk stomped on as well. I'm fairly certain you won't say getting your junk stomped on is fun.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Ruar, on 17 June 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

Not sure why you are trying to nitpick this part since I'm actually agreeing with you

Because you're defending some rando's right to shape my in-game experience, even though they freely admit they don't care enough to actually play the game.

Ruar, on 17 June 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

It's not fun to use.

My point is there are lots of things in this game that are not fun, in my opinion. I'm sorry people can't turn on their computer and find themselves immediately dropped into the most heart-racing seat-of-your-pants match of Mechwarrior: Online they've ever played (however they define it). There are other things we all have to deal with in order to get to that thing we find fun. That's really not a salient argument.

Ruar, on 17 June 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

I'm fairly certain you won't say getting your junk stomped on is fun.

What happens in Vegas...

[MauttyKoray]

CK16, on 16 June 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

Let's see...summer is here (some people do like the sun...)

Game is stable, sky is not falling, move along.

Yeah...sorta this. Its SUMMER, its gotten warm out finally here in the midwest. We kinda started going outside more...

I'm sure the situation is the same in other locations.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 17 June 2017 - 09:46 AM.

[Ruar]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 17 June 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

Because you're defending some rando's right to shape my in-game experience, even though they freely admit they don't care enough to actually play the game.


My point is there are lots of things in this game that are not fun, in my opinion. I'm sorry people can't turn on their computer and find themselves immediately dropped into the most heart-racing seat-of-your-pants match of Mechwarrior: Online they've ever played (however they define it). There are other things we all have to deal with in order to get to that thing we find fun. That's really not a salient argument.


What happens in Vegas...

Please don't do the broken quotes thing. I can follow a train of thought typed out in separate sections.

I'm defending the right for some rando to express their opinion and provide constructive feedback. I'm a rando to some, you are a rando to me. That doesn't mean you can't have a valid point.

My point about the ST is if it isn't fun to use then people don't want to spend time clicking on it. Regardless of whether or not the ST is easy or hard to use, if it's not fun then it drives people away. There will always be some folks who think it is fun, but if the majority disagree then it needs to changed. Especially since the folks who like clicking on it will probably enjoy clicking on whatever new, less complicated, version is created.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Ruar, on 17 June 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm defending the right for some rando to express their opinion and provide constructive feedback.

Remember this the next time some 'leet clown tells someone their stats aren't good enough for their opinion to matter. You are now defending the opinions of people who quit and don't even play the game.

Ruar, on 17 June 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

My point about the ST is if it isn't fun to use then people don't want to spend time clicking on it.

And my point is that there are a lot of individual aspects of this game that people don't find particularly "fun," but we do them anyway to get to the things we do find fun. So I don't think "because it's not fun" is much of an argument. I said as much in my last post. Respond to that point, please. If you're just going to talk past me repeating yourself without reading and responding to my points, why bother responding at all?

Ruar, on 17 June 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

[color=#959595]the folks who like clicking on it will probably enjoy clicking on whatever new, less complicated, version is created.[/color]

You mean like the old, less complicated version that "us folks" hated and have been waiting to see replaced for years now? gg close

Ruar, on 17 June 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

Please don't do the broken quotes thing.

Please don't try to micromanage the way I assert my arguments.

Also, sorry I can't keep this up. I've got a picnic to go to. I'm not one for these sorts of things, but it is a "staff event" (read as: mandatory fun!) so I can't flake.

Summer, as others here have noted, has a way of pulling us (sometimes kicking and screaming) away from our computers.

See you out there!

[Relishcakes]

The Jerol, on 16 June 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

Two months ago, you had 33,000 players on your leaderboards. Now you have 25,000.

I stopped playing after the Skill Tree went live as I just didn't have the desire (or time) to completely re-learn the Mech Lab/game. I understand and accept the premise that skilling up a mech in the new system becomes much easier after you've spent the requisite hours reading up on it, watching videos on it, testing it out in the Testing grounds, etc. I just don't want to do all that right now -- and I'm apparently not alone. Add to that the fact that when the new tech is released a lot of skill builds will need to be radically revised (adding to the time and grind) and it becomes a bit overwhelming.

I'm an ideal customer and a gigantic fan of anything Battletech related. It is my profound hope that I will find the energy (and time) to come back to the game, but many will not. What is the strategy in play here? Alienate a quarter of your player base, while adding zero new players by making an already complex game even more complicated? When I log in and see hundreds of skill points and hundreds of millions of C-bills to allocate, and a skill tree with over 250 choices to make per mech, then multiply that times dozens of mechs to re-skill, I just get depressed, to be honest.

I'm addressing this post to PGI -- though I'm ready and willing to accept the "good riddance, we don't want you to play anyway" responses which are the norm on these forums. When 25% of your player base goes away in a month, your game is in trouble. What are you doing about it?

How is the skill tree overly complicated? decide what you want to do with that mech and then gues what? USE THOSE NODES! Everyone freaking out about them is putting way too much thought into this thing. Wanna brawl? go survival and firepower, possibly some operations so that when you overheat you can turn back on quickly. Wanna laser snipe? go laser duration, range, and cool down. Want SRM hell? missile spread/crit damage. Gotta go fast? play a locust. stop whining about the change to the game and use your head for 30 seconds.

[Ruar]

Relishcakes, on 17 June 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

How is the skill tree overly complicated? decide what you want to do with that mech and then gues what? USE THOSE NODES! Everyone freaking out about them is putting way too much thought into this thing. Wanna brawl? go survival and firepower, possibly some operations so that when you overheat you can turn back on quickly. Wanna laser snipe? go laser duration, range, and cool down. Want SRM hell? missile spread/crit damage. Gotta go fast? play a locust. stop whining about the change to the game and use your head for 30 seconds.

But those aren't always the best nodes to choose for the roles you listed. There are a lot of bad choices in the ST and only a few good ones. Flipping through the nodes to pick the best options is not really that easy since each mech is different, has different quirks, and other issues. You can't just say "pick up this branch and that branch and you're GTG" when there are just so many bad choices to make.

What you really mean is that it's not that complicated to click on a branch of the skill tree and go play the game. However that is no where near the same as saying the ST isn't complicated. The ST is very complex, overly complicated, and daunting to many people. Just because you are happy clicking on a bunch of stuff that may or may not be useful doesn't mean everyone else should feel the same.

[Bigbacon]

Relishcakes, on 17 June 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

How is the skill tree overly complicated? decide what you want to do with that mech and then gues what? USE THOSE NODES! Everyone freaking out about them is putting way too much thought into this thing. Wanna brawl? go survival and firepower, possibly some operations so that when you overheat you can turn back on quickly. Wanna laser snipe? go laser duration, range, and cool down. Want SRM hell? missile spread/crit damage. Gotta go fast? play a locust. stop whining about the change to the game and use your head for 30 seconds.

because it forces you to waste nodes on junk you do not never and isn't helpful.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

PGI loves making vast amounts of their mech content completely useless in waves. They put in quirks. Made some of the chassis usable and then nuke them again. Why have so many variants in the game if you have no plan or idea how to make them relevant? For lore? Please. Lore has always been the least important thing about this game.

I don't see how we'll ever see those mechs being usable beyond the lols ever again.