Jump to content

Patch Notes - 1.4.120 - 20-Jun-2017


439 replies to this topic

#81 MustrumRidcully

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 10,644 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:48 AM

View PostNavid A1, on 16 June 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

A king crab -000 is known for its iconic dual AC20 setup Ballistic focused setups.

So what PGI does?
Posted Image

This.. THIS RIGHT THERE disqualifies the person deciding on balance.
This is just the start


Making a mech more suitable at his canonical role has nothing to do with balance. In fact, balance would imply that a mech could have many viable builds, instead of being locked down into one single build.

Of course, balance would also imply that a mech has many competitive builds. I am not sure the King Crab is quite there yet, with its low slung ballistic hardpoints and its low mobility.

I would not be surprised if the best ballistic King Crab will end up being the new hero, with 2 LBX or UAC or something like that in the high torso mounts. :(

#82 Dee Eight

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 6,271 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:52 AM

View PostFrechdachs, on 16 June 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

So the Clan SPL now does less damage than the ERSL? That's just weird.


Closer to the lore now though. Pulse lasers were generally not about more damage they were about more accuracy. This game equates the accuracy with the duration because most players cannot hold long duration lasers on target properly, But IS pulse lasers in battle tech were 2 heat 3 damage, 4 heat 6 damage and 10 heat 9 damage respectively for small to large. And Clan pulse lasers were 1 heat 3 damage, 2 heat 3 damage, 4 heat 7 damage, and 10 heat 10 damage respectively from micro thru large.

#83 Alex K

    Member

  • Pip
  • Bad Company
  • 14 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:52 AM

My God...

First the ****** QP game modes were brought in FW,
next - incursion release, from which you could hide in FW at least,
and as the finals this **** is brought in FW and PGI forces me to play the **** modes as I don't know what mode it will be, nice job...
Finally a good reason not to play at all after patch.

Edited by Alex K, 17 June 2017 - 03:53 AM.


#84 Dee Eight

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 6,271 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:56 AM

View PostCadoazreal, on 17 June 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

"To join or form a Competitive Team you must have earned the Cadet Bonus 25 Achievement (complete 25 public matches)."

Why even bother putting such a mediocre limitation in ?


Alternate accounts of players who should just be using their primary accounts. They're trying to handicap the creation of new teams using alts by players who either got eliminated from the rankings already or are otherwise trying to game the elo system to make it to the worlds.

#85 Falconer Cyrus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 168 posts
  • LocationIronhold

Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:05 AM

6-to-4 cspl nerf removes 6xspl cheeta from my favourites. *sigh*

#86 cougurt

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2023 Silver Champ
  • CS 2023 Silver Champ
  • 691 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:09 AM

would've been happy if small pulse lasers had just been left alone. my ice ferret is going to be very sad.

i think pulse laser cooldown and/or duration needs to be decreased even further if you really want to differentiate them from their standard and ER counterparts.

Edited by cougurt, 17 June 2017 - 04:32 AM.


#87 Wattila

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 244 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:11 AM

Ok, let's see.

- IS SL heat 2.0 -> 1.7? That is your solution? Pretty much proves the game is balanced by a spreadsheet. You could drop the heat to 1.0 and it would still be the worst weapon in the game, the DPS and range are just too bad to consider boating these. The SL also has the lowest laser damage per tick, I believe, so it's not terribly pinpoint either.
- That cSPL nerf, ouch, guess it'll be cERSL for everyone. They even nerfed the IS SPL, what a terrible joke, might as well start fitting mediums now...
-...which is OK as IS medium lasers look really good now, I'll take six. Surprised cERML got a nerf, but it is still pretty good for 1 ton.
- Small buffs to Clan and IS MPLs, well deserved, better heat efficiency never hurts.
- So, IS and Clan LPLs got alpha and heat efficiency nerfs. IS LPL got hit harder, but it's still pinpoint and syncs better with MLs, so it's not all bad.
-They actually buffed IS ERLL, and it now has the same duration as the LL. cERLL duration buff is nice, though, might see them more now.
- Why fit an IS LL ever? It's already one of the worse IS weapons along with ERPPC and SL, and it gets a duration nerf. No one is going to care about a minor cooldown buff when heat efficiency remains the same.

On to mechs, lots of bait and switch detected.
-RIP 5xLPL BLR-2C? Minor structure and LPL nerfs, probably not enough to kill the build, but makes BLR-1G look more attractive.
-RIP GHR-5P. Back to using WHM-6D as it still has some range and structure quirks.
-RIP HBK-4SP, lost the offensive quirks earlier, and the structure quirks were the only thing keeping the mech relevant. Sleep well, sweet prince.
-KGC gets armor buffs, and the quirks get shuffled around to mechs with least relevant hardpoints. Oh and they now twist like 90-tonners, yay! Still going to be crap mechs with bad hitboxes, but who cares.

Edited by Wattila, 17 June 2017 - 02:07 PM.


#88 shopsmart

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 294 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:26 AM

I looked on the battletech weapons charts to see how close the weapons might be to lore. Been awhile. Way to long for me in fact that I never realized how off some of the weapons in the game were and I thought they were close.

The c-ER Med L. I can understand why they increased the burn time. The skill tree made it so they were way improved. Enough that I noticed.
The c-Sm P L. Was overbloated for damage lore wise. Expect the heavy laser to be the damage maker. There is your balance pass. But might have been harsh. One month from now or a PTS soon we can come to a conclusion.

The only thing I was worrying about is energy weapon synergy with other weapons on timing of refresh, burn time, etc. Slightly erked, so some builds will be getting tuned.

#89 yuujiroassistant

    Member

  • PipPip
  • 34 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:51 AM

View PostLorginir, on 17 June 2017 - 12:59 AM, said:

it isn't brutal, not really. ER small were already better than spls, these changes merely reinforces that.
Changes to IS smalls however once again indicates that PGI have no idea what and how they want to achieve.

View PostLorginir, on 17 June 2017 - 12:59 AM, said:

ER small were already better than spls, these changes merely reinforces that.


I can't tell whether i should be laughing

Quote

Truth hurts? Poor little thing.


or vomiting. This is the kind of feedback that PGI litens to when they make decisions.
The cspl was considered marginally broken because its dps and boating potential were insane. The cersl's lighter weight came with a ton of caveats in return for advatages that were negated by better positioning. In a case where an ersl would outperform an cspl would almost always come down to being out of position since the extra heatsinks gained from an ersl wouldn't allow the carrying mech to out trade a cspl boat or mid range laser vomit @ the cersl optimal range anyway. This is why instead of switching between ersls and cpsls in comp, players instead would switch between the jenner iic A and ach for the same difference between sustained and burst dps.

The current changes are just asinine. The cersl is a worse isml that can't fill tonnage. The marginal increase in dps seen by the cspl is completely negated by the increased face time needed to use it, which detrimentally affects alot of mechs.

The Adder can no longer use ersls or cspls to compliment ballistics because there's too much face time required for the weapons to sync effectively. The adder isn't fast or manouverable enough to dodge around heavies and assaults to get the face time it needs.

The kit fox purifier loses its energy brawl and hybrid brawl builds because its defensive characteristics are worse than the adder's. The normal kit fox is beyond useless now for anythinv other than splat.

The arctic cheetah doesn't suffer as much as people think, since when armed with the B right torso it can maintain the facetime needed for that increased dps. However, this DOES kill build diversity. The srm builds were already mediocre, but now its main damage dealing component depends on facetime when the srms don't, dropping the build further into obscurity. The 5cspl and 6ersl builds are deader than a doornail because the required face time is too much, even for the cheetah.

The jenner IIC-A has been bricked. It used to be the energy brawler with sustain but horrible hitboxes to keep it under control. Then it grew massive, started handling like a truck nearly a year later, and now can't get its full dps out unless it circle strafes because it was hit absurdly hard by the engine desync. Don't tell me to mount medium lasers or mpls on it, because speaking as the single most prolific mpl jenner iic a user (second to shinvector maybe), that build died when the mobility nerf took hold.

The mist lynx has nearly the same mobility of old, allowing it to sit behind heavies relatively safely and take advantage of the spl's increased dps. But remember, its still a mist lynx, and there are still 101 other issues that this moderate buff to its playstyle doesn't nearly account for.

The Nova's hitboxes mean unless its able to put out offensive pressure, its going to evaporate. The sheer power of its spl burns allowed it to poke itself into optimal range and full commitment brawls. Since it can't even alpha strike to make up for the lost power and can't withstand the facetime needed for smalls, a whole niche has been killed off. My words for the Adder also apply to the hbkiic and stormcrow builds that rely on cspls, except its worse because they can't execute even a proper twist (max specced into mobility) in the new cooldown time for this laser! They are FORCED to facetank their opponent, or to fire off pathetic ghost heat limited volleys before retreating.

The ice ferret is utterly useless now outside of 5mls. Not even its ppc build has any use due to its mobility nerfs from skill tree introduction.

The Viper mg build might fare ok due to the large face time it needed before, but the spl and srm hybrids are screwed for reasons i mentioned in the arctic cheetah.

Also, gargoyles and executioners running ersls instead of cspls due to their speed have now been doubly hammered.

Hell i'm so far into this lets bring up the is small lasers. All the is laser changes have done are force all laser lights to adopt medium lasers. EXTREMELY few is mechs could even use the spl before, but now thats been broken, and the downsides are so universal for each mech that previously used to use it that I don't need to go into mech by mech detail.

Wtf PGI. Add onto this the wonderful grasshopper missle quirks, lrm kgc 000 quirks, addition of mobility to a plenty agile but power lacking medium, and now I too join the growing numher of players who don't think you play your own game.


#90 Aramuside

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 998 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:54 AM

View PostAlex K, on 17 June 2017 - 03:52 AM, said:

My God...

First the ****** QP game modes were brought in FW,
next - incursion release, from which you could hide in FW at least,
and as the finals this **** is brought in FW and PGI forces me to play the **** modes as I don't know what mode it will be, nice job...
Finally a good reason not to play at all after patch.


Would we find lots of posts like this if we checked your comment history though? ;)

#91 Alex K

    Member

  • Pip
  • Bad Company
  • 14 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 04:58 AM

View PostAramuside, on 17 June 2017 - 04:54 AM, said:


Would we find lots of posts like this if we checked your comment history though? Posted Image


Literally this is first & the first time when PGI pissed me off so much...
The only game mode that I played in this game was ****** up...

#92 Aramuside

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 998 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:02 AM

View PostSUCTION, on 17 June 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

I can't tell whether i should be laughing



or vomiting. This is the kind of feedback that PGI litens to when they make decisions.
The cspl was considered marginally broken because its dps and boating potential were insane. The cersl's lighter weight came with a ton of caveats in return for advatages that were negated by better positioning. In a case where an ersl would outperform an cspl would almost always come down to being out of position since the extra heatsinks gained from an ersl wouldn't allow the carrying mech to out trade a cspl boat or mid range laser vomit @ the cersl optimal range anyway. This is why instead of switching between ersls and cpsls in comp, players instead would switch between the jenner iic A and ach for the same difference between sustained and burst dps.

The current changes are just asinine. The cersl is a worse isml that can't fill tonnage. The marginal increase in dps seen by the cspl is completely negated by the increased face time needed to use it, which detrimentally affects alot of mechs.

The Adder can no longer use ersls or cspls to compliment ballistics because there's too much face time required for the weapons to sync effectively. The adder isn't fast or manouverable enough to dodge around heavies and assaults to get the face time it needs.

The kit fox purifier loses its energy brawl and hybrid brawl builds because its defensive characteristics are worse than the adder's. The normal kit fox is beyond useless now for anythinv other than splat.

The arctic cheetah doesn't suffer as much as people think, since when armed with the B right torso it can maintain the facetime needed for that increased dps. However, this DOES kill build diversity. The srm builds were already mediocre, but now its main damage dealing component depends on facetime when the srms don't, dropping the build further into obscurity. The 5cspl and 6ersl builds are deader than a doornail because the required face time is too much, even for the cheetah.

The jenner IIC-A has been bricked. It used to be the energy brawler with sustain but horrible hitboxes to keep it under control. Then it grew massive, started handling like a truck nearly a year later, and now can't get its full dps out unless it circle strafes because it was hit absurdly hard by the engine desync. Don't tell me to mount medium lasers or mpls on it, because speaking as the single most prolific mpl jenner iic a user (second to shinvector maybe), that build died when the mobility nerf took hold.

The mist lynx has nearly the same mobility of old, allowing it to sit behind heavies relatively safely and take advantage of the spl's increased dps. But remember, its still a mist lynx, and there are still 101 other issues that this moderate buff to its playstyle doesn't nearly account for.

The Nova's hitboxes mean unless its able to put out offensive pressure, its going to evaporate. The sheer power of its spl burns allowed it to poke itself into optimal range and full commitment brawls. Since it can't even alpha strike to make up for the lost power and can't withstand the facetime needed for smalls, a whole niche has been killed off. My words for the Adder also apply to the hbkiic and stormcrow builds that rely on cspls, except its worse because they can't execute even a proper twist (max specced into mobility) in the new cooldown time for this laser! They are FORCED to facetank their opponent, or to fire off pathetic ghost heat limited volleys before retreating.

The ice ferret is utterly useless now outside of 5mls. Not even its ppc build has any use due to its mobility nerfs from skill tree introduction.

The Viper mg build might fare ok due to the large face time it needed before, but the spl and srm hybrids are screwed for reasons i mentioned in the arctic cheetah.

Also, gargoyles and executioners running ersls instead of cspls due to their speed have now been doubly hammered.

Hell i'm so far into this lets bring up the is small lasers. All the is laser changes have done are force all laser lights to adopt medium lasers. EXTREMELY few is mechs could even use the spl before, but now thats been broken, and the downsides are so universal for each mech that previously used to use it that I don't need to go into mech by mech detail.

Wtf PGI. Add onto this the wonderful grasshopper missle quirks, lrm kgc 000 quirks, addition of mobility to a plenty agile but power lacking medium, and now I too join the growing numher of players who don't think you play your own game.


Some of those picks are odd. The Nova is going nowhere fast and that undermines basically everything you posted.

Then there are bits like: "The cersl is a worse isml that can't fill tonnage." Why are you comparing an ER small laser to a standard medium laser? If you compared it to the ER SL the IS will have soon it might be a valid point but the current example doesn't work. The idea they're clearly trying for is to balance everything against each other not to have the current status where certain weapons are just plain better. Now you'll actually have to make choices.

View PostAlex K, on 17 June 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:


Literally this is first & the first time when PGI pissed me off so much...
The only game mode that I played in this game was ****** up...



I sympathise but if you only played one single game mode then you should probably be willing to roll with changes because it will never stay the same forever.

#93 Bud Crue

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 9,947 posts
  • LocationOn the farm in central Minnesota

Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:10 AM

Clan Small Pulse Laser
• [color="#ff0000"]Damage reduced to 4 (From 6) [/color]• [color="#339966"]Heat reduced to 2.7 (From 3)[/color] [color=#339966]• [color="#339966"]Cooldown duration reduced to 2 (From 2.25)[/color] [/color]• [color=#339966]Duration reduced to 0.6 (From 0.75)[/color]

Sigh.

Would it be possible to try making small iterative changes? I mean I know ya can do it. In fact you have. See, cutting the damage of a weapon like the LPL by 10%-ish makes sense. You get an incremental change that you can monitor and see how it impacts the game. Maybe it will cause a disproportionate shift in the game, maybe it won't. But see, when you cut a weapon's damage by 50% no observation is really needed I guess. You KNOW what is going to happen to that weapon and its effect on the game. You are KNOW it will either drop dramatically in use or be removed from play entirely. That is the obvious and intended goal for this change.

I really wish I could understand what you people do and why you do it PGI. Now excuse me, I need to go put all my Black Knight 6 builds on to the 7s in light of the obvious consequences to another of your totally reasonable changes.

#94 The Unstoppable Puggernaut

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Grizzly
  • The Grizzly
  • 1,022 posts
  • LocationLondon

Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:17 AM

So if I've just skilled out my laser mechs based around what currently worked for those particular mechs, now I have to potentially start again?

I think I'll be taking a break from this game.

Until they can fix basic things like putting their beloved turrets back into Assault (or getting rid of this game mode completely) I'll just stick to the other games. Having peaceful wins is lame. I actually like the HPG change but has this been thought out properly?
How did this make it up the priority list?

#95 ArmageddonKnight

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 2
  • 710 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:27 AM

View PostInnerSphereNews, on 16 June 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:


KGC-000/KGC-000 [L] have lost their Ballistic Velocity Quirks, but have received new Missile Cooldown and LRM Spread Quirks.



**** move PGI, **** move.

Why on earth would you remove a ballistic quirk form the only King Crab capable of running 6 AC's ? Why does it have a AC20 bonus in the 1st place??

It should have Ac2 and Ac5 specific bonuses along with the velocity bonus.

Why on earth would som1 choose the 000 for Missles ? it only has 2 mounts.

Honestly feel ur logic has failed you in this case.
Nice change to the armor bonuses though, definatly needed them, whether or not its enough remains to be seen however.

(yes i use the KGC-000 to boat AC2's)


Also, No love for the DWF ?
That thing could seriosly use ether a mobility buff or a ST/CT armor buff.

Last thing. ER Large Laser ...that thing needs a range nerf. I was expecting a serious nerf to ER LL even if not in the range department, yet it gets a duration buff.. the fk ?!


Anyway good to see some chnages atleast.

I'll be checking to see if your Sound modifications have fixed the AutoCannon sound bug.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 17 June 2017 - 05:33 AM.


#96 Marius Evander

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,113 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:31 AM

IT SEEMS WITH A LOT OF THESE QUIRKS THEIR TRYING TO DISCOURAGE BOATING...... and encourage you to use that 1 missile hardpoint.... etc
BUT THEY KEPT VELOCITY AND LASER DURATION SEPERATE IN THE SKILL TREE ???
LULZ !!

View PostMustrumRidcully, on 17 June 2017 - 03:48 AM, said:

I would not be surprised if the best ballistic King Crab will end up being the new hero, with 2 LBX or UAC or something like that in the high torso mounts. Posted Image


Well that would follow a pattern with the grasshopper 5p losing its tankiness while they add a hero that gets more tankiness simultaneously.

View PostDoctorDetroit, on 16 June 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Nerfed the GHR-5P right when the hero is being released with the stronger structure quirks. I declare shenanigans!!!!


Agreed

View PostMechaBattler, on 16 June 2017 - 10:55 PM, said:

A meta falls, another rises. Look forward to seeing how this shakes out.


I have some idea's but dont share them it only leads to faster nerfage (6months instead of 9)

View PostDee Eight, on 17 June 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:

Alternate accounts of players who should just be using their primary accounts. They're trying to handicap the creation of new teams using alts by players who either got eliminated from the rankings already or are otherwise trying to game the elo system to make it to the worlds.


So it takes me a couple hours to do 25 games.... big limitation ....

#97 yuujiroassistant

    Member

  • PipPip
  • 34 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:37 AM

View PostAramuside, on 17 June 2017 - 05:02 AM, said:

Some of those picks are odd. The Nova is going nowhere fast and that undermines basically everything you posted.

Then there are bits like: "The cersl is a worse isml that can't fill tonnage." Why are you comparing an ER small laser to a standard medium laser? If you compared it to the ER SL the IS will have soon it might be a valid point but the current example doesn't work. The idea they're clearly trying for is to balance everything against each other not to have the current status where certain weapons are just plain better. Now you'll actually have to make choi


I said the ERSL is a worse ISML because:
clans do not have a laser optimal for isml bracket
the ERSL is the closest to the ISML in terms of heat, damage, range, and role.
I said this to underline how mediocre the ersl is now. I should have iterated more: Sorry.

In terms of sl family, all mechs that currently use them are either forced to use cspl or none at all. Currently, unless undertonned by the choice, swapping between ersl and cspl has been a choice between sustained close range damage or more frontloaded damage. The spl was technically more optimal for its range bracket, but the choice between the two was a perfectly considerable one, until the skill tree dropped, gave pulse laser boats the ability to ignore the sustain cap and crank damage with cooldown reductions and super powerful spammable cool shots.

The new system severely hurts the ersl and cspl, but hurts the ersl so much that the cspl is the only laser to be considered for its range bracket. This will also incintivize the use of maximal cooldowns so that the spl's low frontloaded damage can be compensated for, leading to the same problem as before that a .05 reduction in dps does not fix. And any mechs who cannot withstand the face time can no longer effectively use these lasers.

I also don't understand what you mean by the Nova going nowhere. Yes, the Nova stilk has ppc and 6erml going for it, but at close range it doesn't have the hitboxes or armour to face tank while throwing out 48 damage ghost heat staggered alphas. Or sit through whole ersl burns and expect not to get cored. And even if i have forecasted wrong and the nova can power through these issues and become the clan spl partyback, how does this invalidate everything else I said? Argue your point if you have one please.

Edited by SUCTION, 17 June 2017 - 05:40 AM.


#98 Nimnul

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2019 Top 18 Qualifier
  • CS 2019 Top 18 Qualifier
  • 255 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:51 AM

I want in-game video. Video based on captured game events.

Edited by Nimnul, 17 June 2017 - 06:57 AM.


#99 Kmieciu

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Urban Commando
  • Urban Commando
  • 3,437 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 17 June 2017 - 05:56 AM

CSPL lost 33% alpha and 25% heat efficiency.
That means Novas will swap them for ERSLs and light mechs will use SRMs instead.
I think I'll start using a 6xSRM6 huntsman for scouting.
CERLL got more accurate maybe it's time to swap CLPL for it and use the extra tonnage for CMPLs?

On the IS side every light just that can use MLs just got buffed. Same goes for MPLs.
IS ERLL duration buff is huge. I'll probably be swaping my LL buids for ERs.
IS LPL will still rule, simply because on the short duration. It remains a superbly heat efficient tool.

#100 Napoleon_Blownapart

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 1,170 posts

Posted 17 June 2017 - 06:15 AM

more LRM assault mechs that never have to enter the brawl, i can't wait.more spectating the last team mate assault with 98% health and thinking 'where the F were you?'





13 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 13 guests, 0 anonymous users