67 replies to this topic

[Kaeb Odellas]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

I like how you spread wrong facts. Like the 0.6 laser duration on cSPL. Oh I'm sorry these are called "alternative" nowadays, right? It is 0.75 btw. 0.6 maybe with skill tree, but these are modifcations you ignore when balancing weaponsystems.

Oh, I was comparing their post-patch numbers. Did you want to compare the pre-patch SPL and CSPL?

6 IS Small Pulse lasers:
Alpha: 24
Heat: 12
Duration: 0.5
Cooldown: 2.25
Range: 110 optimal, 220 max


6 Clan Small Pulse Laser
Alpha: 36
Heat: 18
Duration: 0.75
Cooldown: 2.25
Range: 165 optimal, 297 max

It's not even freakin' close here. Current CSPLs blow the IS version completely out of the water. No contest.

[JohnnyWayne]

El Bandito, on 17 June 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

Which IS Lights have base 70 CT armor? If you wish to make an argument, base it on facts, not hyperbole.

Wolfhounds, stated before I think? Read the thread you "..."... No, I wont insult you but the report is already out.

Yes I agree, currently the ISSPL are too weak. No the other way around. All light mechs are too weak, as stated before.

But what you did here is the regular thing to do in these forums - wait like vultures for someone to say something that doesn't fit your view of things in your shallow minded world and then expect it all to be only about clan vs IS balance. Then start insulting them. Well done. Jerks.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 June 2017 - 02:45 AM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

RIght I have seen that just a second ago.

Emberassing is, that you ignore all the quirks IS mechs have compared to clan mechs. Moreover you are extremely fixed on clan vs IS for your bitterness as reason, where I stated before that ALL light mechs need changes to adjust to their role as striker in a hit and run manner again.
All you tried to do is to push me into a corner for your IS vs clan argumentation.

The reason IS mechs have so many quirks is because of the inherent superiority of Clan tech. Quirks are a terrible way to balance the factions because it's easy for bad mechs with bad quirks to be left to languish in mediocrity.

PGI has finally realized that the better way to do balance the factions is to balance the underlying tech and dial back quirks as needed. PGI has already dialed back a lot of weapon quirks last month in anticipation for further balancing. This energy rebalance is the next step.

[JohnnyWayne]

I dont give a **** about your arguments, I still say all lights are too weak. Stop making it about IS vs Clan. **** off with your clan vs IS ********, your bitterness about things won't make a solution reachable for any of you.

With these patchnotes light mechs are being ****** over again, that is whats happening.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 June 2017 - 02:49 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 02:36 AM, said:

Moreover you are extremely fixed on clan vs IS for your bitterness as reason, where I stated before that ALL light mechs need changes to adjust to their role as striker in a hit and run manner again.
All you tried to do is to push me into a corner for your IS vs clan argumentation.

How am I bitter? I just want better balance, so I can play my IS 'mechs more without feeling like gimping myself and in turn, my team.

This thread is *literally* about Clan vs IS - specifically, Small Pulse Lasers and their Ghost Heat caps.

*You* came in and told me I was wrong, yet have failed to even attempt to prove how.

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

I dont give a **** about your arguments, I still say all lights are too weak. Stop making it about IS vs Clan. **** off with your clan vs IS ********, your bitterness about things won't make a solution reachable for any of you.

With these patchnotes light mechs are being ****** over again, that is whats happening.

This is a Clan vs IS thread. I feel someone is projecting their bitterness, however.

Once again, I agree about Light 'mechs getting screwed, but that was not the intended scope of this thread.

[El Bandito]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

Wolfhounds, stated before I think? Read the thread you "..."... No, I wont insult you but the report is already out.

Yes I agree, currently the ISSPL are too weak. No the other way around. All light mechs are too weak, as stated before.

But what you did here is the regular thing to do in these forums - wait like vultures for someone to say something that doesn't fit your view of things in your shallow minded world and then expect it all to be only about clan vs IS balance. Then start insulting them. Well done. Jerks.

Aww, you are offended cause I called you out on your error? I am sorry then. Non-factual Clan apologists trigger me easily. And you have been doing nothing but being a Clan apologist all day.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 June 2017 - 02:54 AM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

I dont give a **** about your arguments, I still say all lights are too weak. Stop making it about IS vs Clan. **** off with your clan vs IS ********, your bitterness about things won't make a solution reachable for any of you.

With these patchnotes light mechs are being ****** over again, that is whats happening.

My 12 SPL Nova Prime is a nightmare to light mechs. I can pretty easily vaporize their legs if they get too close (or their CT if they're running away from me). Nerfing this build indirectly buffs lights because I can't instantly delete them from existence anymore.

The only lights that really get screwed by this change are Arctic Cheetahs, and those have been the best lights in the game since their introduction. Not really gonna shed too many tears for them.

I will relish hopping into my old JR7-F 6ML build, however.

EDIT:

Actually, IS lights stand to benefit pretty well from this change I think. I don't know that too many IS lights have been boating SPLs lately, so this energy change only really hurts Firestarters, but they're getting structure buffs to compensate.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 17 June 2017 - 03:00 AM.

[JohnnyWayne]

El Bandito: I am a merc, I'd prefer to play all my mechs. But you are just bitchting about clans op because its what you like to do. That is basically the only reason you play this game judging from the forums. I really wish there would be an ignore option in here, what ever you have to say I can gladly skip. All that is inside is "meeeh Clans too op".

This thread is about CSPL being nerfed, so yes it is about lights being ****** over, nothing else. Instead of fixing whats wrong with IS lights, they project that now all the light mechs.

Kaeb Odellas, on 17 June 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

The only lights that really get screwed by this change are Arctic Cheetahs, and those have been the best lights in the game since their introduction. Not really gonna shed too many tears for them.

Never had any issues with novas, really. The only mech getting screwed is the only true light mech on clan side. JennerIICs are just walking CTs, just like their IS counterpart. There is so much to fix in the light department and they ******* just dont care, quite the contrary.

[Shifty McSwift]

CSPL is/was in no way a "light only" weapon, I run several of my assaults with some CSPL.

You know what I use them for quite often? Killing lights that are too close... So in a roundabout way, it buffs lights getting hit by CSPL.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Wolfhound max CT armour (assuming 0 on the back) is 44 + 11 = 55 (all variants except WLF-1A, which only has +8)
Now, add the +23% from the Skill Tree, and you either get;
(44 + 11) * 1.23 = 67.65
or
(44 * 1.23) + 11 = 65.12

So, while you *can* get close to 70 CT on a Wolfhound if you skip any rear armour and invest ~26 (may be less, not looking hard enough to optimise) of you 91 skill nodes in the Survival tree, why would you?

Didn't you also just say you shouldn't use the Skill Tree when trying to balance things?

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

I like how you spread wrong facts. Like the 0.6 laser duration on cSPL. Oh I'm sorry these are called "alternative" nowadays, right? It is 0.75 btw. 0.6 maybe with skill tree, but these are modifcations you ignore when balancing weaponsystems.

Eh, pretty much. So, maximum of 55 CT on the Wolfhound, if you ignore the Skill Tree, which you think we should. Consistency is awesome!

[JohnnyWayne]

Shifty McSwift, on 17 June 2017 - 03:02 AM, said:

CSPL is/was in no way a "light only" weapon, I run several of my assaults with some CSPL.

You know what I use them for quite often? Killing lights that are too close... So in a roundabout way, it buffs lights getting hit by CSPL.

Hahaha, no.

Streaks are the only weapon that does what you describe. A Gauss round would be as effective as a SPL to fight off lights.

That is right, skill tree is best left out for balacing components. Maybe even mechs. But not quirks as they stack to some sort of exponential effect. So if you want to balance quirks you have to consider the skill tree.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 June 2017 - 03:06 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 03:01 AM, said:

I really wish there would be an ignore option in here, what ever you have to say I can gladly skip.

Profile > View Forum Profile > Edit my Profile > 'Ignore' Preferences

You're welcome.

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 03:01 AM, said:

This thread is about CSPL being nerfed, so yes it is about lights being ****** over, nothing else. Instead of fixing whats wrong with IS lights, they project that now all the light mechs.

*sigh*

Title

Quote

CLAN SMALL PULSE LASER GHOST HEAT

And original post

Antares102, on 17 June 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

Now that the CSPL are at 4 damage can we please have a ghost heat limit of something like 8?
If the ghost heat limit of 6 persists than you can only do an alpha of 24.
Compared to IS SPL which has no ghost heat limit this is really unacceptable.

This is a thread about IS vs Clan. You can kick and scream all you want, it doesn't make it a thread about Lights.

[El Bandito]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 03:01 AM, said:

El Bandito: I am a merc, I'd prefer to play all my mechs. But you are just bitchting about clans op because its what you like to do. That is basically the only reason you play this game judging from the forums. I really wish there would be an ignore option in here, what ever you have to say I can gladly skip. All that is inside is "meeeh Clans too op".

Classic Johhny with his hyperbole strikes again. But no worries, daddy's gonna help you.

Profile>Forum Profile>Edit My Profile>'Ignore' Preferences

You are welcome.

[Kaeb Odellas]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 03:01 AM, said:

Never had any issues with novas, really. The only mech getting screwed is the only true light mech on clan side. JennerIICs are just walking CTs, just like their IS counterpart. There is so much to fix in the light department and they ******* just dont care, quite the contrary.

I invite you to go light hunting in a 12 CSPL Nova before the patch hits. Or hell, hunt any damn thing you please in that Nova. Then you'll see why CSPLs needed a nerf.

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 03:04 AM, said:

Hahaha, no.

Streaks are the only weapon that does what you describe. A Gauss round would be as effective as a SPL to fight off lights.

I'll 1v1 you right now in my Nova.

If you bring anything that can't safely poke from range, you stand no chance. 12 CSPL is just that good.

[Valhallan]

Is there even a good IS light that can make use of that no GH limit? , all i see IS use for SPL's are lct's and those cap at 6.

[JohnnyWayne]

Kaeb Odellas, on 17 June 2017 - 03:11 AM, said:

I'll 1v1 you right now in my Nova.

If you bring anything that can't safely poke from range, you stand no chance. 12 CSPL is just that good.

And you'd probably win. But this is not how you play as a light against another light or medium. Even against heavies you have to watch out. Btw, to a degree MWO is rock paper scissors and mediums counter lights. At least to some part that remained, they are working hard on removing that so that lights wont counter assaults anymore.

Valhallan, on 17 June 2017 - 03:12 AM, said:

Is there even a good IS light that can make use of that no GH limit? , all i see IS use for SPL's are lct's and those cap at 6.

Not really. No good ones at least.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 June 2017 - 03:16 AM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Valhallan, on 17 June 2017 - 03:12 AM, said:

Is there even a good IS light that can make use of that no GH limit? , all i see IS use for SPL's are lct's and those cap at 6.

Firestarters can bring 8. You don't really see those much anymore thanks to rescale.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Valhallan, on 17 June 2017 - 03:12 AM, said:

Is there even a good IS light that can make use of that no GH limit? , all i see IS use for SPL's are lct's and those cap at 6.

The HBK-4P has 9E
The FS9-A, FS9-K, BJ-1X & PHX-1K have 8E
The FS9-S & JVN-11A have 7E

Anything heavier on the IS side doesn't really want to be boating small class lasers

[Shifty McSwift]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 03:15 AM, said:

Btw, to a degree MWO is rock paper scissors and mediums counter lights.

Rock paper scissors ideology will only ever loosely apply here, like on paper how a speedy light should wreck an assault, it fails to recognise that most assaults can carry an array of weapons, some of which can instakill lights, or are designed to kill lights better than other roles.

If rock paper scissors also included the option for rock to shoot micro missiles at paper then it might fit, but its not a set game ideal here, just how things can tend to function, or function on paper, or function on average.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 17 June 2017 - 03:26 AM.

[G4LV4TR0N]

As a Clan Light Mech pilot I'm quite glad of changes. Nerfs are nerfs, but they will mainly hurt boating builds, like TUK3 most used mech, 6SPL ACH. Seriously got sick of it as it was hard to find a game, QP/GQ/CW without one.

Also, it was quite obvious for long time that Clan SPL is very strong, just take a look at something like MRBC, they were probably one of most used weapons in whole league and people were boating them even on maps like Terra Therma. Plus, probably most doubled MRBC mech was SPL Nova.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 17 June 2017 - 03:49 AM.