131 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

The gyr would be balanced if it couldn't pop-tart!

[R Valentine]

It's really just 2 mechs that are the offending parties when it comes to dual gauss. The Night Gyr was always a stupid mech to add. All high mounts + jump jets that work make the Night Gyr a dull boy(to play against). Quirks come and go, but hard points are forever. The only thing PGI can do to properly balance the NTG is to lower the arms, and they'll never do that. PGI lacks this organ we call "the brain". Fixing the NTG requires one. At least when they made the Roughneck they learned from the previous mistake and gave it low-ish slung arms with its shoulder mounts. Too bad they didn't learn that lesson earlier and not release the NTG in its current form.

[Skanderborg]

Khobai, on 18 June 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

Id like to see gauss damage reduced from 15 to 12 but give gauss a chance to pierce armor and apply damage directly to internal structure and get through armor crits.

That reduces the PPFLD but also keeps gauss unique by giving it a solid utility ability.

Could get rid of the awful chargeup then too.

I would like to see them just remove the charge up time making them instant shot while increasing cooldown.

The gauss would have horrible DPS (already does) but increase its role as front loaded damage.

[pyrocomp]

Main reason for the exellent performance of the GR+2xERPPC or 2xGR+ERPPC builds is the damage applied to a single component at long range. You cannot brawl with those builds, you cannot do well in close-to-mid ranges. Just a long rane optimal combination.
Lasers at those ranges due to their burn times can be rolled across multiple components.
Clan ballistics do have a burst that requires some effort to keep it on the same component at range.
And this leaves the weapons that do not have spread or duration thta allow the damage to be rolled.
No amount of GR health reduction or CD increase or explosion chance and gamage can change the situation as those builds usage rest upon careful shots when ready.

So. The most simple and most voted against solution is low CoF (5 m at 1000 m distance) for each and every single projectile weapon in the game. This will allow application of full damage of the combo at mid ranges (yet targeting will require more skill as the aiming area for guarateed hit will shrink on every component) over assaults and heavies and at mid-to-short at lights. After that the GR can get rid of it volitile explosion when uncharged and get other changes.

Yes, I know that CoF in voted against as people think it will at the scale on 100 at 100 (e.g. almost 30 degrees cone) but the proposed cone is low and changes nothing at mid and below ranges at which other options can be used.

PS: I think MechWarrior is a game about huge battle machines in which you first try to tear through opponents armor creating a weak spot and only then trying to exploit it, and it is not about one-shot-instakill weapons (however the UT with instagib mutator was fun).

[Birthright]

God some players whine about EVERYTHING.

This thread is completely pointless.

There will be a tech update soon which introduces Heavy and Light Gauss for IS.

You really wanna talk about nerfing clan even more before these weapons are even released?

WOW.

pointless thread.

[Coolant]

the 15 damage is the problem

[Sjorpha]

El Bandito, on 18 June 2017 - 03:37 AM, said:

I dunno how to improve the IS Gauss, which is three full tons heavier than Clan Gauss, to be competitive without further pushing the power creep. Perhaps much less charge timer?

I think the IS gauss should get it's 3x range falloff back, make it the real sniper rifle of the two, if that's not enough reduce cooldown a bit.

[Wattila]

Sjorpha, on 19 June 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

I think the IS gauss should get it's 3x range falloff back, make it the real sniper rifle of the two, if that's not enough reduce cooldown a bit.

The problem is that the lore dictates IS can't have hardware that is superior to the Clan equivalent. Making the IS Gauss less risky to run with an XL engine would go a long way already. Could easily boost the health to 12+ and make the explosion less lethal, so you won't die when the first PPC shot opens your ST.

[LowSubmarino]

Skanderborg, on 18 June 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

I think a quick solution would to simply increase the ammo per ton for IS gauss so the tonnage equals out.

Clan Gauss still remains 12 tons with 7 shots per ton

IS Gauss remains 15 tons while increasing to 14 shots per ton.

So if a clan takes a gauss rifle and 4 tons of ammo to equal 16 tons he has 28 shots , and if a IS takes a gauss with 2 tons of ammo , he spent 17 tons for 28 shots. Both weapons perform equally but the IS just get a free ton or 2 and slots from not having to take more ammo tonnage.

Thats ridiculous.

Then why have different weights for clan and is in the first place?

So they have the knowledge and tech to build ligther weapons but build heavier ammo? haha....

Nah, thats just stupid.

[Brain Cancer]

Clan and IS were never meant to be balanced in TT.

That means in MWO, where they WANT balance, you have to dare to be stupid.

[arma1ite]

Brain Cancer, on 19 June 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

Clan and IS were never meant to be balanced in TT.

That means in MWO, where they WANT balance, you have to dare to be stupid.

You want us to say that in Tukkayyid ComStar and Clans had equal numbers of mechs?

Or in TT binary has equal numbers of mechs as an IS company?
You want bring BV to MWO?

Edited by arma1ite, 20 June 2017 - 02:37 AM.

[InvictusLee]

Kalleballe, on 19 June 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

If dual gauss is OP, why is nobody running HBK-IIc? Its exploding ST maybe?

Ammo Capacity.
Dual Gauss or a combination of Gauss and PPCS are OP all day long.

[Kmieciu]

IS Gauss is 20% heavier, it should have 20% more DPS.

That`s, like, balancing 101.

[arma1ite]

Brain Cancer, on 19 June 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

Clan and IS were never meant to be balanced in TT.

That means in MWO, where they WANT balance, you have to dare to be stupid.

& by the way Jordan Weissman confessed that introducing the clans as they are now was a mistake - they way OP:

Quote

I'm going to say this right now, so that everybody can manage their expectations: We're not going to make the same mistake that was made for the last 30 years when it comes to introducing Clan technology into a BattleTech or MechWarrior project. IT WAS A MISTAKE - how powerful they were when they were first introduced - and it's something that I remember talking with [Jordan Weisman] about and him saying, "Wow... if I could take it back, I probably would; I'd probably change how they work, because it immediately invalidated an entire line of products and 'Mechs and content".

So, our approach to introducing Clan tech - which includes Double Heat Sinks and lasers and how equipment fits onto 'Mechs and OmniMechs - is we're going to look at it from the context of our game and inspired by what the intent was for Clan tech.

"Here is a superior force, coming back, that's going to lay waste to the Inner Sphere." But, we want to make sure those Inner Sphere players are able to compete, still. But the way the story was written, "it was through the valor of the Inner Sphere and the unification of the Inner Sphere that they were able to defeat the Clans, and overcome that superior tech."

We can't guarantee that our playerbase is going to be able to do that. In fact, it'll probably be the opposite - everybody is going to flock to the best, most efficient piece of content, and therefore invalidate all the other content - and we don't want that to happen. We want to be able to recreate what was described in that lore, but it's going to require us to change the mechanics and the exact BT... let's say, the numbers, to make sure that the players can actually try to achieve what happened in that canon.

- Bryan Ekman on Clan tech in MWO, from NGNG #88 (recorded Sept. 04, 2013)

Clan tech as it is - is a mistake because of it's OP.

[PhoenixFire55]

CapperDeluxe, on 19 June 2017 - 03:28 AM, said:

Only allow one gauss to be charged at a time instead of two, problem solved.

You know what solves even more problems? ... Only allow to fire any one weapon at the same time and only allow to take one weapon of any kind of the same time. Better yet, make all weapons do no damage so we can all pew-pew each other and everyone will be happy.

But you know what actually solves all problems? ... Getting rid of idiots.

[Shifty McSwift]

Phoenix and his logical fallacies.

Also pointing out a logical fallacy, such as the slippery slope logic you just applied on top of a straw-man argument, isn't an attack on your person.

[PhoenixFire55]

Shifty McSwift, on 20 June 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

Phoenix and his logical fallacies.

Even if true it is still better then hijacking a discussion regarding something you have zero clue about.
But hey, who am I to tell you what to do? ... Carry on.

[Kangarad]

Kalleballe, on 19 June 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

If dual gauss is OP, why is nobody running HBK-IIc? Its exploding ST maybe?

Gyr would be balanced by forcing longer exposure if it had lower arm hard points.

November11th, on 20 June 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

Ammo Capacity.
Dual Gauss or a combination of Gauss and PPCS are OP all day long.


I constantly use my 2 gauss 2mlas HBK-IIC in scouting. it performs adequate aka better than many i've seen in there.

Tho I would not call the thing fast or tanky using an xl200 and with the low gauss hp and high explosion damage youll lose any sidetorsi once the armour is gone.
you dont need to do a thousand damage with such a precise weapon as the dual guass.

[Pilotasso]

I tend to use dual gauss builds less as they are a gamble. yes they do alot of damage for no heat whatsoever but your basically dependent of your mates defending you against team locust, and we all know how good teams are with match maker. Also, they are good against slow moving targets. They are not very good with the high proliferation of fast moving ones.

I will not take seriously anyone who says "Ill head shot those locusts with gauss all the time no problem" based on my own experience. Those usually live in the forums and I dont see them play much.

Edited by Pilotasso, 20 June 2017 - 08:10 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Pilotasso, on 20 June 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

I tend to use dual gauss builds less as they are a gamble. yes they do alot of damage for no heat whatsoever but your basically dependent of your mates defending you against team locust, and we all know how good teams are with match maker.

I will not take seriously anyone who says "Ill head shot those locusts with gauss all the time no problem" based on my own experience. Those usually live in the forums and I dont see them play.

Also those gauss sparks when firing the gun are like setting off a "come brawl me my weapons will explode" alarm when seen by knowledgeable types lol.

As for headshoting lights, why would you even try hah, one dual gauss volley will tend to mince up any component it hits on a light, particularly if you have backup weapons that are also fired in that volley and hit.