51 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

They are given FOR FREE* and with early access and a cbill buff. That was the loyalty reward. That these were released early for cbills was surprising, but don't act like they were never going to be released... they've followed this pattern for what, 3-4 years now?

Besides "good" + "exclusive" = P2W and several of these mechs are desirable/have desirable omnipods.

I might be wrong, but weren't the loyalty Cent and Atlas both pre-existing variants just reskinned and cbill-buffed? They would therefore not be "exclusive" right out of the gate.

TL;DR
I think the exclusivity was always intended to be the combination of features on that variant, not the variant itself to prevent balance issues.

Edited by MovinTarget, 21 June 2017 - 09:56 AM.

[stealthraccoon]

Aesthir, on 20 June 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

Can someone explain to me what the point of the Cataphract 3L is?

It's basically the same as the 'phract 1X with an XL Engine. Same hardpoint spread, same quirks but nerfed. Even the default loadout is pretty much the same: 4 lasers, a PPC, and an AC/10.

So why would anyone ever buy this? 'Phract is my favorite mech, and even I don't want to waste 10M C-Bills just to fill out a list.

Because it's the REAL 'Phract, all Capellans know that! And it's fast... I dance that thing all over the place.

[Vysir]

"I might be wrong, but weren't the loyalty Cent and Atlas both pre-existing variants just reskinned and cbill-buffed? They would therefore not be "exclusive" right out of the gate." - I'm sorry MovinTarget, I don't know how to do the box quotes :/

They were unique variants at the time, released later as purchasable mechs. I don't look at the mech as being only for loyal people who spend way too much money as I have in the past. I see it as getting a new mech early, one with a C-bill bonus and a unique paint scheme. Those are my rewards for being a good financial supporter of MWO, even if I am not a fan of the last two years loyalty mech camo schemes of dippin dots and melted box of crayons. I do love the angel on my mechs from the first years loyalty program.

Edited by RapidRewind, 21 June 2017 - 11:03 AM.

[MovinTarget]

@Rapid, if you want to quote a post look for the "quote" button right under the "like" button of that post.

It will copy that post into your reply box and you can trim it down to what you want to respond to.

[Aesthir]

Aesthir, on 20 June 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

Can someone explain to me what the point of the Cataphract 3L is? It's basically the same as the 'phract 1X with an XL Engine. Same hardpoint spread, same quirks but nerfed. Even the default loadout is pretty much the same: 4 lasers, a PPC, and an AC/10. So why would anyone ever buy this? 'Phract is my favorite mech, and even I don't want to waste 10M C-Bills just to fill out a list.

Khalcruth, on 20 June 2017 - 01:58 PM, said:

I'm patching right now, so I can't look and be certain, but I would swear it's claim to fame is having a MASC.

That's... really sad actually. MASC is complete BS. Maybe it's different on smaller mechs, but on a 'phract it's pointless. Just look at the math:

Cataphract 3L comes stock with an 280 XL engine, for a top speed of 64.8kph. (with no skills/quirks). With the MASC engaged, speed increases to 75.8kph.

The MASC IV weighs 4 tons. If you remove that and upgrade the engine by the same amount to an 315XL, the speed increases to 72.9kph. So you get almost the same speed with no cooldown, no risk of damage, no screen shake, and an extra heat sink slot in the engine for a total of 7(!) slots freed up.

You do see some better gains when using STD Engines. The difference between a 280 STD and a 305 STD is 4.5 tons, and your top speed only moves to 70.6kph, so the MASC would give you a sprint bonus almost twice what the engine upgrade would offer.

But if you're not going to run the 3L with an XL engine (something I'm not too keen on anyway; XL engines in anything but a light/small med or a rear-line missile boat always seem like hanging a "Easy Kill" sign on the mech) then it's just the same hardpoint spread and therefore loadout as the rest of the 'phracts, especially since it has no quirks to incentivise using different weapons. PGI could have at least given us some arm-mounted missile slots so the 2X didn't stand so alone or maybe an LT ballistic just to be different.

So, not much point in it overall. Too bad I had to spend 10M c-bills to figure that out.

[MovinTarget]

I will have to revisit MASC now with the skill tree, the speed boost is of less interest to me, rather the increased manueverability w/ or w/o the mobility tree in play...

[El Bandito]

Time to poptart like mad with the Summoner.

[Aramuside]

Aesthir, on 22 June 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

That's... really sad actually. MASC is complete BS. Maybe it's different on smaller mechs, but on a 'phract it's pointless. Just look at the math:

Cataphract 3L comes stock with an 280 XL engine, for a top speed of 64.8kph. (with no skills/quirks). With the MASC engaged, speed increases to 75.8kph.

The MASC IV weighs 4 tons. If you remove that and upgrade the engine by the same amount to an 315XL, the speed increases to 72.9kph. So you get almost the same speed with no cooldown, no risk of damage, no screen shake, and an extra heat sink slot in the engine for a total of 7(!) slots freed up.

You do see some better gains when using STD Engines. The difference between a 280 STD and a 305 STD is 4.5 tons, and your top speed only moves to 70.6kph, so the MASC would give you a sprint bonus almost twice what the engine upgrade would offer.

But if you're not going to run the 3L with an XL engine (something I'm not too keen on anyway; XL engines in anything but a light/small med or a rear-line missile boat always seem like hanging a "Easy Kill" sign on the mech) then it's just the same hardpoint spread and therefore loadout as the rest of the 'phracts, especially since it has no quirks to incentivise using different weapons. PGI could have at least given us some arm-mounted missile slots so the 2X didn't stand so alone or maybe an LT ballistic just to be different.

So, not much point in it overall. Too bad I had to spend 10M c-bills to figure that out.

MASC really has very little to do with top speed - it gives you insane TURN speed. Its a brawler tool in most cases ergo why the Spirit Bear did well till they savaged its turning ability. Large engines also really don't give anywhere near the bang for the buck they used to with decoupling.

[Akillius]

MovinTarget, on 21 June 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

don't act like they were never going to be released... they've followed this pattern for what, 3-4 years now?

What are you talking about?
Did mods delete posts because no one wrote anything stating they'd never be released.

MovinTarget, on 21 June 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

That these were released early for cbills was surprising

And yet you knew this ^ lol

Litago, on 21 June 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

And why should others be unable to gain access to mech variants that have unique attributes like ECM, Masc, JJ's, and so on? Less exclusivity is healthy for the game,

It appears that the majority (in the thread) has expressed the same as the above quote.

Since it appears more variety is desired how about releasing all special early adopter reward variants (ie. MAD-IIC-8), and others like NCIX Centurion variant (2016 Convention promo + NCIX promo).
If the majority of players is for releasing those too, then I'd be for it too if released for MC.

Technically all the above were just a free giveaway, or simply promotional for sales event, and follow those links to see that PGI never explicitly stated: exclusive, or limited, or would not be sold, or released at later date after promo or event was over.
Therefore those mechs "limited availability" was merely assumed and (unless other PGI published pages can be found that explicitly state otherwise,) it appears PGI has a loophole to release them if they ever decide to do so.
Not that it matters because if PGI researches and finds those special variants are under used then they can change the rules since afterall it's their game as per EULA/TOS/etc.

BTW Same type of assumption was made about having access to loyalty variants for closer to a year or until the next years loyalty program is announced, which as some others pointed out had been the pattern in the past.


Anyways getting back on topic perhaps in the future PGI can decide when to release next years loyalty mechs for cbills and put those dates in the loyalty program's announcement that way everyone know when to expect them and some players can save up their cbills ahead of time.




PS: the Gold Khan mechs, Founders mechs, and Sarah's Jenner clearly and explicitly state: exclusive limited quantities, and/or limited will not be sold after a certain date and imo those should stay like that.

Edited by Max Rickson, 28 June 2017 - 09:58 AM.

[PanzerTC]

So are these the ones given out last year or for this coming year?

[MovinTarget]

Max Rickson, on 28 June 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

What are you talking about?
Did mods delete posts because no one wrote anything stating they'd never be released.

It was in reference to this post, I believe... yes, should've been quoted, dunno how I missed that...

KHAN ATTAKHAN, on 20 June 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

Founders, Storm packs, etc. etc. when they're released for MC or c-bills it's time pack up, loyalty mechs should have stayed exactly that, LOYATY MECHS.

Max Rickson, on 28 June 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

And yet you knew this ^ lol

I actually did not, hence it was surprising, I thought they were coming out late fall/early winter... Granted, I wasn't keeping track of them...

PanzerTC, on 28 June 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

So are these the ones given out last year or for this coming year?

These are the ones given out last year... If PGI follows their usual schedule, the 2017 Loyalty rewards will be announced in the next month or so...

Edited by MovinTarget, 28 June 2017 - 10:29 AM.