228 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

RACs could definetely be tweaked. Agree that they are meh all around and need a niche.

Heavy LL is a killer backstabber on something like an ach (running a pair)

Combo the heavy lasers with flamers for max effect.

IS UAC20s need GH when boating.

LFEs are a welcome addition.

[C91]

Navid A1, on 28 June 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

So, ATMs are here and there are a couple major issues with them.

- 180 min range? really?. That is not how ATMs work PGI!
- close to nothing ammo per ton
- they out perform LRMs at long range

Do this:

- reduce max range of ATMs
- remove min range of ATMs
- significantly buff LRM velocity
- Reduce LRM spread!

Well, the max range of the ATM's look good to me, and in fact the regular and ER Ammo has a min range. But since we don't have different ammo types to switch they definately need to remove the min range removed (as this would be the rule for HE ammo).

The min range was my biggest surprise and disappointment when I tested them out for the first time.

[kutkip]

first impressions;
RAC -> nice to use, love them. You need some backup weapons but they give great DPS. (try 2 on a bushwacker)
ATM -> minimum range?? really? and longer range then LRM's? The spread is way too big also. i was hoping for something more useful midrange.
Heavy Lasers -> somewhat nice, could use a buff, shorter duration and shorter cooldown
MRM -> difficult to aim but high damage, good for static targets, unique weapon
HMG -> good, feels like how machine guns should be

[Kaptain]

Gannycus, on 28 June 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

And IS LBX 20 shots per tons is 10 where Clan have only 7.

Clans is two slots smaller and 2 tons lighter.
So at 4.6 Tons of ammo they are equal in weight.
At 5 tons the IS has an advantage.

I just hope we can convince them to either program crit splitting for the IS LBX20 or reduce its slots to 10. Its common for LBX20s to be insalled in the arms. Bushwacker and Night Start come to mind.

[Brain Cancer]

Most ATM ammo has a 120m min range. The most elegant solution would have been base 3 damage with damage reduction on one end from 120m -> 0m, then 3 from 120m-270m, followed by damage reduction from 271m -> 1100m.

Let's also note this is a missile system with 122% of the range of LRMs, but the exact same velocity. It should at least be looking at 195 velocity if it wants to be as accurate at range (ha!) as LRMs are.

Edit: And ATMs are supposedly equipped with built-in Artemis, so that spread...

Edited by Brain Cancer, 28 June 2017 - 04:03 PM.

[Wattila]

RACs are indeed garbage, lots of smoke and fire, low DPS, tons of heat. Crippling ghost heat makes them ineffective as burst weapons. 4xRAC5 takes about 14 seconds to down the testing ground Atlas, 6xUAC2 does the same in about 8 seconds.

Heavy Gauss is a total meme weapon. Go double or go home, 50 pinpoint damage is brutal. Add a SNPPC or double LPPC for more memes. Low range and crippling fitting requirements make them less than competitive, though, and JJ shake prevents you from firing lasers simultaneously. It's a really satisfying to fire, so I don't care even if it's bad.

LB20X is also too difficult to fit. LB2x and LB5x are just too tonnage and ammo inefficient to even be memes.

UAC2 are really good, might just be the new go-to dakka weapon. The jam chance also seems to be relatively low. 10s and 20s really need a jam chance quirked mech as jams are brutal and immediately kill your DPS. You're better off boating 2s and 5s as they kill people just as fast.

Light PPCs are good, you trade a slot and 0.5 extra heat for an extra ton, compared to a PPC, pretty fair if you ask me. SNPPCs will also find a niche as they're 6tons 2slots and sync nicely with AC20s. One obvious candidate is YLW with AC20 + SNPPC. Heavy PPC is hot garbage, not worth 10tons and 4 slots.

MRMs are kind of OK. You can get some huge alphas and DPS with them, but the poor spread and projectile speed limits you to SRM ranges really. Try building a HBK-4SP with LFE250 and 2xMRM30 with 4 tons of ammo. You can do 4-5 60 damage alphas before you shut down. The DPS is good memes - especially if you're willing to spam cool shots.

Edited by Wattila, 28 June 2017 - 08:02 PM.

[Nightbird]

Lots of DOA stuff, waiting for version 2

[Wattila]

AngrySpartan, on 28 June 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

LOL, Heavy lasers lightsabers!!!

I mean, are you serious??? Have you ever tried to shoot them PGI???
Clan ERLL was useless for ages with 1,5s duration and still borderline useless with 1,35s now, but at least it has some range.

1,35s face time with HSL at 100m range is insane or rather suicidal. 1,6 at 270for HML is more or less the same. You won't hit anything and will get a bunch of SRMs in da face instead. Is there a facepalm smile somewhere around here?

The heavy lasers will find their niche with tonnage-starved light and medium mechs as they're very tonnage efficient. Especially the HML damage would be too much with a lower duration. You would have to further decrease their GH cap or nerf them in some other way. The long duration is kind of thematic, though, since they get a to-hit penalty in TT.

Also, I never thought I'd say this but heavy machine guns are actually pretty brutal.

Edited by Wattila, 28 June 2017 - 04:35 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Yeah, version 2 of the pts will be where we see things settle a bit. Can't let all older tech go obsolete but we will see how they tune the new stuff.

Btw, didn't get to try IS UAC5s but it would be weird if it stayed the dame while all the new uacs are multi shot like clams...

[Kaptain]

Cant wait to play, downloading painfully slow now.

At first glance
-LBX20 needs to be 10 slots.
-HPPC should be 15 damage. I understand this is done as to not insight clan complains BUT the HPPC is much larger and heavier than the clan ERPPC.
-I am actually quite relieve that the heavy laser is "worthless" at the moment. Lets buff it slowly until it has a niche usage... it doesnt need to be OP as its BT stats would suggest it could be. This was my biggest fear, glad its not a thing.
-Bummed I never looked up laser ams systems specs before dream building it onto all my mechs. Now I know.
-MRMs fire in a string? Interesting...
-People are saying the ultra20 doesn't have ghost heat? Whaaaaaaa?

Edited by Kaptain, 28 June 2017 - 04:24 PM.

[Kaptain]

MovinTarget, on 28 June 2017 - 04:21 PM, said:

Btw, didn't get to try IS UAC5s but it would be weird if it stayed the dame while all the new uacs are multi shot like clams...

Personally I would like to see the Heavier/larger IS ultras work like
UAC2 2dmg per shot, 2 shots in ultra
UAC5 5dmg per shot, 2 shots in ultra (same as live)
UAC10 5dmg per shot, 4 shots in ultra
UAC20 10dmg per shot, 4 shots in ultra

Edited by Kaptain, 28 June 2017 - 04:28 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Mrms fire like clam lurms...

[Gas Guzzler]

NlGHTBlRD, on 28 June 2017 - 04:06 PM, said:

Lots of DOA stuff, waiting for version 2

I'll prly patch now to make the next patch a bit smaller.

[FireStoat]

PGI - very well done on the PTS launch and the new tech that was offered being available for test and feedback. I've griped about other issues but you nailed this one really well. Great job.

MovinTarget, on 28 June 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

Mrms fire like clam lurms...

They do, but you can twist instantly after pressing the fire button and all of the missile stream still hits. Test it out for yourself. So in that regard, they're quite a bit better than clan LRM's.

Edited by FireStoat, 28 June 2017 - 04:50 PM.

[paws2sky]

Holy Dogma, Batman! This download can't be right, can it? 128 files? So far they're 100-500 MB each!? It'd be quicker to fresh install the client.

-paws

[Sereglach]

Not too much to say without doing active testing . . . but I will comment on this:

Who in their right mind decided to double down on the utterly broken, overly complicated, buggy, and flawed exponential scaling Flamer mechanics with their pseudo cooldowns and terrible stats?

Really? Seriously? You decided to add Flamer nodes to the weapon tree that -from the description- lower the "Unavoidable" "Absolute tested minimum" (quotes from Russ, I might add) 4.5 second pseudo-cooldown that was thrown onto the weapon as a "fix" to an exploit that you knew was there for years but didn't care until you broke the game. That means either you were lying then and you're now just compounding the whole problem, OR you're about to walk into another exploitable situation and we may very well have "Flamergeddon 2.0".

I'm just floored that PGI decided to do this. It's absurd. I'll provide more feedback over it in the PTS forum, but my first impression just utterly enrages me to the core. I'm so happy that I haven't spent money on MWO in over 2 years now. However it's so sad that just a little fix would get me to open my wallet back up. Hey, PGI, how about this as a compromise:

First, dump the exponential heat gain mechanics and go to fixed flat numbers.

Second, -the compromise here- set the base stats of the Flamer to 0.8 DPS, 1.6 Heat DPS, and 1.0 HPS.

Third, change the Flamer Nodes to increase the Heat Damage and Heat Generation of the Flamers by 12.5% per node. Then, if you invest in both nodes, you end up with .8 DPS, 2.0 Heat DPS, and 1.25 HPS.

This way, you can put Flamer nodes into the Weapons tree, Flamers aren't going to be powerful out of the box (or even with the nodes, for that matter), and we can get some unique weapons nodes for a sorely underpowered weapon system.

Thoughts here, PGI. Can I PLEASE get some response here as to the logic behind these nodes and why you think this is some kind of good idea? Can I finally please have some sort of dialog with Chris, Paul, Russ, or someone with authority or input on these decisions? Please? None of what you're doing here makes any sense.

[MovinTarget]

FireStoat, on 28 June 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

They do, but you can twist instantly after pressing the fire button and all of the missile stream still hits. Test it out for yourself. So in that regard, they're quite a bit better than clan LRM's.

I guess if you didn't lock the clam lurms first, yes...

In fact, that sounds suspiciously like a bug for something "unguided"

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Anyone have "Na" problem. When in mechlab I view mechs, and their paperdolls which lists hardpoints, many of them read Na. And they will often have insane amount of ballistics.

Like one King Crab has 10 ballistic hardpoints in CT alone.

Oh and looks like the game desided to crash when I tried to actually look the hardpoints in mechlab. I guess you don''t have that problem and it's my setup messed up.
http://i.imgur.com/GhInFhc.jpg

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 28 June 2017 - 05:16 PM.

[Shock21]

How come LBX10s get a tonnage and slot discount from AC10s but the 2s, 5s and 20s don't?

[Nightbird]

Shock21, on 28 June 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

How come LBX10s get a tonnage and slot discount from AC10s but the 2s, 5s and 20s don't?

same as AC2, 5, 20?