255 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

Well the crying has started early gotta love it.

[Pjwned]

Metus regem, on 29 June 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

Some people have reported the same effects as the cXL so far... considering how much heavier it is, that's kind of a kick in the teeth.... I'd be happy with half the effects.

That would completely ruin intrafaction balance and actually make LFE too good compared to both STD and XL.

So if LFE has the same engine damage penalties then that's a good thing.

[Khobai]

Quote

That would completely ruin intrafaction balance and actually make LFE too good compared to both STD and XL.

LFE is already too good compared to STD and XL.

STD is just plain bad.

And the penalty for losing a side torso with XL is death... anything is better than that.

There is no intrafaction balance just like theres no other type of balance in this game.


What they need to do is implement a proper engine critical hit system.

ISXL should be able to survive 4 crit slot destructions. so a side torso destruction wouldnt destroy it.

CXL and LFE would also survive 4 crits, but because they only have 2 crits in each side torso, they would both be more resilient than ISXL (because it has 3 crit slots in each side torso). CXL would also have less health per crit slot than LFE, since it should be more fragile, since its a better engine.

And STD engine would be immune to crits on top of giving a CT structure bonus. The only way to kill it would be to kill the CT.

"but engine crits would lower TTK"

if you set the crit slot health high enough it wouldnt significantly reduce TTK. yeah there might be times when RNG kills you with a lucky x3 crit. But thats the whole point. it makes using non-STD engines riskier. And it makes STD engines better because less risk.

Edited by Khobai, 30 June 2017 - 09:21 AM.

[DGTLDaemon]

Novakaine, on 30 June 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

Well the crying has started early gotta love it.

It's not "crying", it's disappointment, because the new tech brings literally nothing for the Clans. The IS are getting a bunch of new toys that may or may not shift the balance in IS favor, but at least they provide some new options and some build variety. The Clans are getting d*ck. Heavy lasers and micro lasers are useless, laser AMS is only good for overheating your mech, and ATMs have an extremely narrow operating range. In its current state, arrival of the new tech won't affect any of my builds, and it sucks. Might as well rename the Civil War Update to "IS Civil War Update". You guys at least have something to play with. We might as well ignore the update and move on. And it's definitely not a good thing in a game which is already described by many as "stale" and "boring".

[Alienized]

DGTLDaemon, on 30 June 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

It's not "crying", it's disappointment, because the new tech brings literally nothing for the Clans. The IS are getting a bunch of new toys that may or may not shift the balance in IS favor, but at least they provide some new options and some build variety. The Clans are getting d*ck. Heavy lasers and micro lasers are useless, laser AMS is only good for overheating your mech, and ATMs have an extremely narrow operating range. In its current state, arrival of the new tech won't affect any of my builds, and it sucks. Might as well rename the Civil War Update to "IS Civil War Update". You guys at least have something to play with. We might as well ignore the update and move on. And it's definitely not a good thing in a game which is already described by many as "stale" and "boring".

and some pointed already out that most of the newer stuff literally is just not good or usable if not for lolz (which is already enough for me. wait for the rocket launcher grasshopper heads and other funny things)

not specifically directed to you now:
no one ever told you to play clans only. your own fault for playing the best stuff. looks like some some gotta jump ship again and go for IS just because they are better. they wont be. figure out how to make the new clan toys work because they gonna be good as well.


*preparing some ultimate MRM/lbx spammage* not that it will work well but holy cow. splat the fat.

[Mcgral18]

DGTLDaemon, on 30 June 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

It's not "crying", it's disappointment, because the new tech brings literally nothing for the Clans. The IS are getting a bunch of new toys that may or may not shift the balance in IS favor, but at least they provide some new options and some build variety. The Clans are getting d*ck. Heavy lasers and micro lasers are useless, laser AMS is only good for overheating your mech, and ATMs have an extremely narrow operating range. In its current state, arrival of the new tech won't affect any of my builds, and it sucks. Might as well rename the Civil War Update to "IS Civil War Update". You guys at least have something to play with. We might as well ignore the update and move on. And it's definitely not a good thing in a game which is already described by many as "stale" and "boring".

Micro Pulses may actually be the best brawling weapon, FYI...maybe


They have excellent sustainability, but SRMs aren't exactly bad either

I see Mr Gargles with 16 being comparable DPS wise (20 VS 24) to his old build, but considerably more heat efficient
I also enjoyed a 8 HML Mr Gargles...but that's more fun than good.

I expect ATMs to change....they're really bloody frustrating to use, much like LRMs (because they are low angle LRMs)

I certainly didn't expect any high end change, as I expected Spheroid quirks to be shafted with LFEs
Nice to see that didn't happen, some Spheroid mechs might just have a role which isn't "Sponge"
Aside from Lights...they have good lights now (because of quirks and cSPL nerfs)

[BattleGnome]

Still wish that HAG was introduced in the game somehow, lore consistency be damned (I mean, PGI has made up mech variants for crying out loud).

[DGTLDaemon]

Mcgral18, on 30 June 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

Micro Pulses may actually be the best brawling weapon, FYI...maybe

Well, I took a look at them on my Nova, and I wasn't impressed. Looks like the ghost heat limit is 8 (correct me if I'm wrong, as I didn't do much testing), which gives you a max alpha of 24 with the optimal range of 90... Frankly, I'd rather roll with a 10-12 ERSL build. As for heavy lasers, I hope I don't have to explain why they are useless outside of potato tiers in their current state. And you said yourself that ATMs are no good at the moment, either. So what does that leave us with? Light TAG and light active probe, really?

[Mcgral18]

DGTLDaemon, on 30 June 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

Well, I took a look at them on my Nova, and I wasn't impressed. Looks like the ghost heat limit is 8 (correct me if I'm wrong, as I didn't do much testing), which gives you a max alpha of 24 with the optimal range of 90... Frankly, I'd rather roll with a 10-12 ERSL build. As for heavy lasers, I hope I don't have to explain why they are useless outside of potato tiers in their current state. And you said yourself that ATMs are no good at the moment, either. So what does that leave us with? Light TAG and light active probe, really?

7 is the limit

You can do 10 daily, though


We'll see what 16 do
14 demolished, with decent cooling with 22 DHS
Mr Gargles will do 16 with 27 DHS
Only...an 80 toner with 100M range
Mr Gargles isn't without flaws
But 20 DPS is adequate, even if it's nerfed from 24 DPS (trading range for less heat)

Heavies will farm Potato just fine.

LAPs are fine for half ton Filler (like the Nova)

HMGs are also amazing.

[Khobai]

Quote

HMGs are also amazing.

except we both know theyre going to get nerfed. clans cant have nice things.

Quote

Two words.

Assault Lasers.

As s Lasers

Yes please.

Edited by Khobai, 30 June 2017 - 12:59 PM.

[Acehilator]

Pjwned, on 30 June 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

That would completely ruin intrafaction balance and actually make LFE too good compared to both STD and XL.

So if LFE has the same engine damage penalties then that's a good thing.

LFE side torso loss penalty needs to go, period. If it invalidates STD, who cares? Just buy five new LFE engines and be done with it. People need to stop being afraid of equipment becoming obsolete... it is not the end of the world.

[Pjwned]

Acehilator, on 30 June 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

LFE side torso loss penalty needs to go, period. If it invalidates STD, who cares? Just buy five new LFE engines and be done with it. People need to stop being afraid of equipment becoming obsolete... it is not the end of the world.

Or it could be actually balanced and not intentionally make other equipment obsolete, which is immeasurably stupid because there's no point in equipment even existing if it's obsolete.

[Dee Eight]

KevinZhang, on 29 June 2017 - 11:39 AM, said:

I didn't follow along with every release but only recently looked over the notes for the PTS and what is coming to MWO with the Civil War tech. I'm not sure if it is just me but doesn't it seem really skewed towards IS mechs with this release? A majority of the weapons and tech seem to be IS only (especially the bigger stuff like rotary AC, STEALTH ARMOR, rokkit launchas, etc) while clans only get some micro-lasers and whatnot. I know people complain that clan is too strong but is swinging the pendulum hard towards the IS side really the right fix for balance?

Clearly you're someone without a clue... the new tech introductions favours the IS in #s but its still inferior quality to clan tech. All the stuff being introduced was just how the IS responded in the lore to trying to catch up to where the clan's already were. New streak missile launcher sizes, which still have less range and weigh 50% more than clan streak systems. ER small and medium lasers again inferior in damage and range to clan versions. UAC and LB auto cannons inferior in crit space, tonnage, range to clan versions. Light fusion engines which were still inferior to clan XL engines, etc.

[Dee Eight]

Khobai, on 29 June 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

They fire way faster too

ISSRM6 has a 4 second cooldown. CSSRM6 is like a 6 second cooldown.

Spread and speed on the CSSRMs is way worse too

So yeah they take up more tons/crits but theyre better in many ways.



again not true.

ISERML (720m) has better max range than the CERML (688m)

this makes absolutely no sense and clearly PGI forgot about the max range nerf on CERMLs. OOPS.

CERML is a sad weapon right now... we pay way more heat for less range than the IS counterpart. Yeah CERML gets extra damage but thats largely nullified by the longer beam duration.

BETTER maximum range but less optimal range. And anyone who actually fires a ERML of either tech at max range needs their heads examined as you're doing almost zero damage for all that heat at that distance.

[El Bandito]

Viktor Drake, on 30 June 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

First with a RAC/5 9.6 dps is alot of damage. That is 28.8 damage in a 3 second burst. An AC/10, a comparable weight and size weapon, only does 10 damage in that same time frame. The difference is in the PPFLD of course. With that AC/10 your pumping that 10 points directly into the CT of the enemy and then immediately dodging back into cover. That is decisive and that is immediately identified as being powerful.

AC10 can fire TWICE in 3 second window, so it actually deals 20 damage. Even then people think AC10 is mediocre. Know your equipment before you talk about it. Current RACs are bad.

[Dee Eight]

BattleGnome, on 30 June 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Still wish that HAG was introduced in the game somehow, lore consistency be damned (I mean, PGI has made up mech variants for crying out loud).

Doesn't match the timeline jump. They weren't introduced until 3068. Also in 3068 are the Light autocannons and the plasma rifles. Also they didn't give us the MML which does fit the timeline because well... reasons... (though mainly again its due to the lack of an ammo switch capability in the cryengine source code).

[Khobai]

Quote

BETTER maximum range but less optimal range

max range is the one that matters

if you can damage me but I cant damage you im at a huge disadvantage

ERLLs taught me that

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 30 June 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

max range is the one that matters

if you can damage me but I cant damage you im at a huge disadvantage

ERLLs taught me that

You'll have to tell that to everybody who was using the isERLL over the cERLL with its lesser max-range, even when quirked.

The truth is that it only matters when the damage is significant over that range advantage, which it isn't in this case.

[Acehilator]

Pjwned, on 30 June 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

Or it could be actually balanced and not intentionally make other equipment obsolete, which is immeasurably stupid because there's no point in equipment even existing if it's obsolete.

Balancing an ever increasing amount of equipment is just not going to happen anyways. And STD engines had a reason to exist since the first day of the MWO alpha... it is totally irrelevant if they were to be retired now after all that time. And with PGI not giving any indication of reducing crit slots on HGauss and LB20/X, STDs are still needed.

[Trollfeed]

Mcgral18, on 30 June 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

Micro Pulses may actually be the best brawling weapon, FYI...maybe


They have excellent sustainability, but SRMs aren't exactly bad either

I see Mr Gargles with 16 being comparable DPS wise (20 VS 24) to his old build, but considerably more heat efficient
I also enjoyed a 8 HML Mr Gargles...but that's more fun than good.

I expect ATMs to change....they're really bloody frustrating to use, much like LRMs (because they are low angle LRMs)

I certainly didn't expect any high end change, as I expected Spheroid quirks to be shafted with LFEs
Nice to see that didn't happen, some Spheroid mechs might just have a role which isn't "Sponge"
Aside from Lights...they have good lights now (because of quirks and cSPL nerfs)

I have been playing some lights lately so I instantly noticed how their power relations changed after cSPL nerf. Arctic cheetah used to be the king of the hill with its 6xcSPL, now they're chased away or even killed by commandos and wolfhounds. In addition medium laser buff made jenners more viable.

Edited by Trollfeed, 01 July 2017 - 05:34 AM.