147 replies to this topic

[Tordin]

Changes in the rcorrect direction for the most part. Still, dont tune down the heavy machine guns anymore. They needed that dmg and multiplier since they got so short range.
Try having them at 0.15 or 0.16 again but let the crit multiplier stay at 6.

Light machine guns have highest crit mp, longest range, least dmg
Standard machine guns have the middle ground between LMG and HMG
Heavy machine guns have highest dmg, shortest range, least crit multiplier.

Also MRM 14? Typo I see, its MRM 40 right?

Edited by Tordin, 01 July 2017 - 07:19 AM.

[Ralatar]

No extra ammo for Light Gauss when Skilling up Magazine Capacity.

PGI, please don't miss this in the cloud of posts again, I've been bringing it up since the 28th.

Edited by Ralatar, 01 July 2017 - 07:19 AM.

[Tordin]

Ralatar, on 01 July 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

No extra ammo for Light Gauss when Skilling up Magazine Capacity.

PGI, please don't miss this in the cloud of posts again, been bringing up since the 28th.

Twitter em, post it on the feedback forums etc

[Ralatar]

Tordin, on 01 July 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

Twitter em, post it on the feedback forums etc

You mean here https://mwomercs.com...r-mag-capacity/

[ArmageddonKnight]

Even with the dmg buff to the RAC's, they suck.

The problem isnt the DPS, well it was but they didnt need buffing so much.
The RAC2 doesnt need to be at 5.6DPS, 4.5 would have been fine.

A normal AC2 with the right skill tree can do around 3.33 DPS, so so long as the RAC2 did a meaningful amount more for its draw backs, that would be fine. 4 Wasnt enough, but 5.6 is to much.

The RAC's biggest problem is heat and the Jam threshold.
The time it takes to hit that threshold needs, at minimum, doubling.
The heat needs toneing down, 2 is to hot, but it should be more than 1. So maybe 1.5

Ghost Heat needs to go, completly, its totaly unneccesery for a non Alpha weapon, and is currently just tripping over itself when RAC's jam then unjam and start fireing out of sync with other RAC's.

So yea, drop the DPS, drop the heat, Remove Ghost Heat, increase time till Jam. The rest of the drabacks vs normal AC's and UAC's will likely be enough of a balance.

Remember,
Normal AC's, Pure sustain & Suppresion.
Ultra AC's, Burst damage
RAC's, Pure DPS.

Pure DPS is no use if u can only keep it up for a half dozen seconds, be it becouse of heat, or becouse of Jaming. It wont do enough dmg. And since it cant alpah stike, it becomes a usless weapon.



Light Gauss Rifle.

Lower CD to 3
Lower Weight to 10
Remove Fire limit
Remove Charge mechanic

A weapon that deals only 8 damage does not need handycap mechanics.

[Tordin]

Yepp!

Yepp.

[tokumboh]

They will balancing the new tech for ever.

1. it seems the mechanic for ghost heat means that all PPCs have the same limit: this is rubbish. ditto for Gauss
2. The SNPPC seems to have been designed for brawling but it make no sense taking over ERLL to my mind
3. Light Gauss has no real gain over the taking a Gauss and while people think it is a substitute for AC10 not many optimal builds would take an AC10 in the first place you need to reduce cooldown or charge time or both to make it worth it
4. MRM if you are going to make them stream fired then the have to follow the reticle my view is the speed is OK but the fact that they don't mean that the are useless at range

The only real positives are the new LBXs and UACs LFEs , LFF and Stealth armour
All these work pretty well are well balanced but I presume the do not have complex mechanics

Lastly the PTS using 4v4 does not work everything becomes a brawl rather quickly you would not take a long range support mech in a 4 v 4 setting you need to suspend the normal server give everybody double XP and C bills on a test server if they play 25 games + 25M C bills or better still for the cheapskates give them 4 mech bays worth of MCs

[Chris Puetz]

we hab make a Test yesterday.
A Mech with 2 LAMS against a Mech with ATM3, 6, 9 ,12; only from the ATM12 one Missle comb through the AMS-Wall.
I think it's a good compromise!

[Mad Porthos]

I am not certain if anyone said this specifically in an earlier page, but the bug with Artemis effecting Missile Spread, in particularly those on MRMs, ATMs and Rocket Launchers, is the same Artemis aim system "bug" that people have been complaining/talking about boosting STREAK missile systems since the summer of 2012. While it wasn't a "big deal" to some of us, and was generally referred to as a "feature" rather than a "bug", the use of Artemis allowed streak missiles to achieve lock faster. Unlike for normal SRMS, CSRMS, LRMS or CLRMS, it added no additional tonnage to streak launchers either, which logically people reasoned had already paid for their tracking/aiming in the .5, or 1 ton that Streaks weigh above standard launchers.

For a very long time, people would bring up this freebie, that those in the know would use... some would call it an exploit. Running a missile mech for inner sphere? Perhaps run it specifically with normal srms, like 4's for tighter groupings and efficiency - but decide on this same inner sphere mech to run the normally pretty useless streak 2's? Then add Artemis for the faster lock, beagle so you can target ECM mechs. This was standard. And when people who were annoyed/angered about it complained, it was stated to be an "artifact" of the way the lock on system is programmed in MWO. If a weapon used the lock on system, it used this "engine" and it could not be used without ARTEMIS's benefits being given, since both streaks and lrms were sharing the same targeting code. In essence, it seemed to be like black box programming, they didn't want to get into the base code to copy and make a variant targeting mechanic just for streaks that used all the same stuff, but that wouldn't give the Artemis boost to lock on time/strength.

Some people stated it was simple, that as soon as you see a mech that has Artemis on but that then equips a streak, turn off Artemis/remove it from the mech... but that is unacceptable, because you might well have a build like a catapult where you choose to have Artemis legitimately for the LRMS, but then load streak 2's to deal with close up harassment from lights, who try to tuck in close under the catapult's chin where they know the body weapons cannot target them. That ankle biter tactic is classic, see a catapult in your commando or locust, and if you some how get in too close, park under his chin and fire at his left leg then right, staying pressed against it, when he can't aim down. So streaks would help and the same mech would need to keep Artemis and still have streaks mounted. Sharing the same lock programming/targetting computer, the quicker lock really got shared between streaks and lrms too.

It may STILL be that they can't seperate out/copy and paste duplicate the aim systems, allowing two seperate systems of locks/targeting... but here it is proving problematic with them WANTING to remove it's effects on ATMs, Rocket Launchers and MRMS, because they have decided that a targeting system cannot effect these things, but all along they were not willing to address this with the streak missile systems which people also were claiming were a (minor) issue. Ultimately, this all goes back also to how they chose to implement SRMS into game early on, when they decided that they were dumb fire, Artemis targeting just causing them to have a tighter "spread". Fairly early in beta when things were still being worked out with TAG and Narc, TAG and Narc also were unintentionally causing SRMS to have a tighter spread too and this was considered unacceptable, once again because someone had impressed upon the developers that SRMS were non tracking dumbfire weapons - likely a "balance" to their higher damage and velocity. There even I think was a brief patch period where SRMS were tracking like streaks, IF and only IF you were using TAG, or NARC or Artemis (memory is a bit hazy on what combo made it happen, but it was gone quickly, fall 2012).

Likely they can do that exact same thing for MRMs, Rocket Launchers and ATMS, remove all tracking and spread benefits by defining things differently.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 01 July 2017 - 08:38 AM.

[Sereglach]

Koniving, on 01 July 2017 - 02:45 AM, said:

*snip*

No, I was talking about something completely different, but it would seem as though what I was talking about has been fixed. The ghost heat issue seems to be the only remaining issue.

Genesis23, on 01 July 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

"...not as pinpoint as SRM for brawling" lol good joke. srm were never pinpoint at all, not even with the use of artemis, neither are the LRM ammo-efficient by any definition.

ATM are way too strong with or without minimum range. a stormcrow outfitted with these would be even more OP than it allready was with the streaks at some point.

No, SRMs aren't pinpoint, but ATMs have missile trajectories and spread like LRMs, which are far more punishing and damage spreading than SRMs have ever been.

ATMs need their minimum range to go away to be truly worthwhile (as a start). Otherwise they don't have the ammo efficiency for long range engagements like LRMs and they don't have the accuracy to compete with SRMs in a brawl.

Should we even go into how easily AMS tears up volleys of ATMs with their low missile counts?

Right now they're just terrible weapons instead of the well rounded missile systems they're supposed to be.

[Fox the Apprentice]

Tarl Cabot, on 01 July 2017 - 05:47 AM, said:

The wording of the first sentence indicates it is a bug, as it is unintentionally boosting MRM, ATM and RL spread attributes. Then it is reasonable to infer that last sentence should have said to "to take off the Artemis Guidance Mech update".

Has there been an official clarification on this anywhere?

[Nightbird]

AC20, lore range 3, MWO range 270meters. Heavy Gauss lore range 6, MWO range 180 meters. Hmmmm

[Dee Eight]

tokumboh, on 01 July 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

They will balancing the new tech for ever.


2. The SNPPC seems to have been designed for brawling but it make no sense taking over ERLL to my mind

Not in the context that is this game where the large lasers do more damage than heat... but in the BT source material, where large lasers were 8 heat for 8 damage, and ER LLs were 12 heat for 8 (IS) or 10 (Clan) damage... it does. 1 more year though (3068) and we add my fave, plasma rifles to the energy mix. 10 heat for 10 damage and same range as a large laser, but also does 10 heat to the target mech.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Toaster Repair Pony, on 30 June 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

So is firing a RAC 2 and a RAC 5 supposed to produce insane amounts of heat? Same if two of the same RAC is fired in an offset, like 2 separate weapon groups. Yet If I fire 2 RAC 2's or 2 RAC 5's in the same group, it produces significantly less heat.

Does that seem right to you?

Devs got my note on it. It's not just RACs, it's a bug in all weapons affected by GH... RACs fire fastest and trigger it worst.

[The Shazbot]

I want to report that if you equip an Command Console, it will not allow you to equip a Targeting Computer, but if you equip the TC first you can equip a CC after. Pretty sure they are not supposed to stack.

Edit: It does, in fact, not stack the values. It uses the CC value for zoom. So the issue is only that it allows both to be equipped if TC is equipped first. Tested on BLR-1G.

Edit 2: Is this the best place to report bugs?

Edited by The Shazbot, 01 July 2017 - 12:43 PM.

[Mechwarrior4670152]

NlGHTBlRD, on 01 July 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

AC20, lore range 3, MWO range 270meters. Heavy Gauss lore range 6, MWO range 180 meters. Hmmmm

From Sarna

While the Heavy Gauss Rifle is extremely powerful, it also suffers from a number of drawbacks. The heavy projectile fired by the rifle experiences a significant loss of velocity, so it is weaker at greater distances. At medium range, the damage output is slightly reduced. Once at long range, the velocity loss becomes far more dramatic, with this reduced damage being halved.


In other words - that heavy gauss would not be doing it's full damage (MWO's optimal range) at 6 hexes.

Edited by Wence the Wanderer, 01 July 2017 - 01:19 PM.

[Galenthor Kerensky]

tried the various systems out when they first came out on test... the rac 5 wouldn't fire at all, the heat for the rac 2 went nuts within a few seconds... and the atm's which shouldn't have a minimum range due to the way they are built... was quite suprised at how low the ammo count was for them too... over 10 tons of ammo, barely 750 rounds...

[Mister Blastman]

Heavy PPC needs 15 damage pinpoint or it is pointless.

Light Gauss needs charge function removed.

ATMs need minimum range removed.

[Litago]

Koniving, on 01 July 2017 - 04:33 AM, said:

The point is that you can just fire them back to back in exactly the same way. Nothing about it being overpowered or anything like that. All Gauss are tied together. Do I think it's fair? Not really. But we have ghost heat 1.0, there's no exceptions and if we make them, then we'll have 4 Light Gauss + 2 Regular Gauss or 2 Regular Gauss + 2 Heavy Gauss all fired at once.

If we had Ghost Heat 2.0, we could make it so that 4 Light Gauss is okay, and 2 Light Gauss would behave like 1 Gauss, so 1 Gauss + 2 Light Guass would then be okay but 3 Light Gauss + Gauss would be punished as 2.5 Gauss, and 2 Gauss + 2 Light Gauss would be punished as 3 Gauss. (This isn't to say the builds are possible, but the overarching issue of ghost heat.)

We don't have it.
So.
"Learn."
"To."
"Shoot."
And the missing word...
"Consecutively."

If I had remembered that final word I think there wouldn't have been any confusion. The point is you can fire them one pair then the other pair and do just fine regardless of the type of Gauss. Just bring it and use it.

In fact, I've been running quad Light Gauss on the Marauder to superb effect for a couple of matches. It just boils down to Learn to Shoot Consecutively. I'm about to run twin Gauss + twin Light Gauss; I'm quite excited..

"The point is that you can just fire them back to back in exactly the same way"

And my point is that your videos showcase a potential 60 damage alpha, and I am arguing for a 32 damage alpha. A 32 damage alpha that weighs 18 tons and uses 6 slots more than a normal dual Gauss setup which has an alpha of 30 damage (Yes, 2 points of damage for 18 tons and 6 slots.)
And why shouldn't they make an exception for Light Gauss? Keep the 2 Gauss limit, but raise the Light Gauss limit to 4, and no, you can't mount 4 Light Gauss and 2 Gauss (Because thats literally impossible no mech has the hardpoints and slots) and the same goes for 2 Heavy Gauss + 2 Gauss (Which is besides the point, we're talking about Light Gauss). And why do you want to stop people from going 2 light gauss + 1 normal gauss? Is 31 damage OP, but 30 is not?

You keep using anecdotes about your performance with shooting them consecutively, and sure thats great for you, be exited about your Marauder that somehow has 4 ballistic hardpoints, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. Yes, I can shoot consecutively, but do hard limits and build restrictions make for a fun game? They don't. What they do is hinder meme builds and extreme min maxing to be overly effective, like 3-4 Gauss.

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

Tarl Cabot, on 01 July 2017 - 05:47 AM, said:

The wording of the first sentence indicates it is a bug, as it is unintentionally boosting MRM, ATM and RL spread attributes. Then it is reasonable to infer that last sentence should have said to "to take off the Artemis Guidance Mech update".

Glad I read before posting to see if someone else noticed that first.

I see they haven't fixed the verbiage yet though. I wonder how many players are running the new missile systems with Artemis in the PTS now after reading that?