50 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

when I tried 2 Heavy Gauss I got my butt kicked between weapons firing

[MadRover]

davoodoo, on 03 July 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

Why not?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...94ccd57a379e026
this thing exists and delivers 60 dmg at 500m and no one batches an eye

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...279521d697a9d23
but this here?? oy vey shut it down.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b02b4640f590784
this here?? haram

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5436b4728711668
this?? perfectly fine.

I dont get logic behind ghost heat and irrational fear of 50 dmg on 100 tonner at 180m when this
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...08bb6c416bdfa29
delivers 45 at 330m over 0.9s and runs cool as breeze.

Don't forget Clan UACs are in love with jam and jam times. That slices the dps potential in half. With the UAC 20s in their current state, it's an easy 80damage potential with less jamming at around 300m base which is ideal range for most UACs any way. So you're telling me I should be able to rip a center torso out of an Atlas in 6seconds when every other weapon and build takes more time to accomplish the same thing at the same range? Logic right? And here I thought we were also complaining about TTKs in every other post in whatever threads and topics you can imagine.

[davoodoo]

MadRover, on 03 July 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

Don't forget Clan UACs are in love with jam and jam times. That slices the dps potential in half. With the UAC 20s in their current state, it's an easy 80damage potential with less jamming at around 300m base which is ideal range for most UACs any way. So you're telling me I should be able to rip a center torso out of an Atlas in 6seconds when every other weapon and build takes more time to accomplish the same thing at the same range? Logic right? And here I thought we were also complaining about TTKs in every other post in whatever threads and topics you can imagine.

Yes, you should be able to rip atlas ct in 6 seconds.

If enemy allows you to get your slow *** within atlas range at which point itll proceed to rip your ct.

Slap 375 lights on boars head, 6 er meds and uac20 with enough ammo.
70 dmg and lasers have greater range and wont jam.

Not to mention we already have thing called as7s
4xsrm6a for mere 48 dmg, throw in uac20 instead of regular ac20 and you have 88dmg.
srms again wont jam
or just throw light engine 2 mrm30 and dhs to keep it cool.
100 dmg + youll probably fit some backup smalls.

I mean sure 4 uac10 kodiak was ******* scary, but it still lost to as7s in brawl... despite 80 dmg drilling into ct and like you worded it "allowing to rip ct in 5s"

Edited by davoodoo, 03 July 2017 - 06:07 PM.

[MadRover]

davoodoo, on 03 July 2017 - 06:05 PM, said:

Yes, you should be able to rip atlas ct in 6 seconds.

If enemy allows you to get your slow *** within atlas range at which point itll proceed to rip your ct.

Slap 375 lights on boars head, 6 er meds and uac20 with enough ammo.
70 dmg and lasers have greater range and wont jam.

Not to mention we already have thing called as7s
4xsrm6a for mere 48 dmg, throw in uac20 instead of regular ac20 and you have 88dmg.
srms again wont jam
or just throw light engine 2 mrm30 and dhs to keep it cool.
100 dmg + youll probably fit some backup smalls.

I mean sure 4 uac10 kodiak was ******* scary, but it still lost to as7s in brawl... despite 80 dmg drilling into ct and like you worded it "allowing to rip ct in 5s"

but how many weapons in total are being used? theres a difference between 2 weapons regardless if theyre the same or not throwing 80 damage at compared to 6 weapons being used to deal 80 damage at you (heat in case you missed it). also, you can barely twist the med lasers off the ct. not the UACs. and very rarely the SRMs depending on range. even the Kodiak 3 AC5/AC10 required the use of 4 weapons, and a minimum of 4 tons of ammo.

dual UAC20s ripping into an atlas for 80 points of damage backed with med lasers is at least a minimum of 100+ damage by the time both UAC20s even begin jamming. that means you can literally kill an Atlas in 6 seconds no problem. THAT is the problem

[Khobai]

Quote

when I tried 2 Heavy Gauss I got my butt kicked between weapons firing

yep the charge up and cooldown on heavy gauss are both too long. the optimum range is probably too short too. and 11 crits might be a bit much as well.

the problem is buffing those things runs the risk of making dual heavy gauss too good

and the game is better off with dual heavy gauss not being good than being too good.

so the only other solution I can think of is to limit heavy gauss to only 1 charging at a time. and then because its limited to 1 charging at a time you can buff heavy gauss and make it a lot stronger.

in other words make it a powerful singleton weapon at the expense of not allowing it to be used in pairs.

Edited by Khobai, 03 July 2017 - 07:10 PM.

[phoboskomboa]

Khobai, on 03 July 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

yep the charge up and cooldown on heavy gauss are both too long. the optimum range is probably too short too. and 11 crits might be a bit much as well.

the problem is buffing those things runs the risk of making dual heavy gauss too good

and the game is better off with dual heavy gauss not being good than being too good.

so the only other solution I can think of is to limit heavy gauss to only 1 charging at a time. and then because its limited to 1 charging at a time you can buff heavy gauss and make it a lot stronger.

in other words make it a powerful singleton weapon at the expense of not allowing it to be used in pairs.

That's a good half-solution. The thing is, I kinda wanna use 2 of them sometimes just for fun. Maybe a better solution is allowing both to charge at the same time, but increasing how long it takes if and only if you're charging two?

[Scout Derek]

Khobai, on 03 July 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

yep the charge up and cooldown on heavy gauss are both too long. the optimum range is probably too short too. and 11 crits might be a bit much as well.

the problem is buffing those things runs the risk of making dual heavy gauss too good

and the game is better off with dual heavy gauss not being good than being too good.

so the only other solution I can think of is to limit heavy gauss to only 1 charging at a time. and then because its limited to 1 charging at a time you can buff heavy gauss and make it a lot stronger.

in other words make it a powerful singleton weapon at the expense of not allowing it to be used in pairs.

Heavy gauss takes I think 1.5 times longer than regular gauss, and light gauss takes half the time to charge. I think the longer charge time is a good thing.

[Khobai]

Quote

I think the longer charge time is a good thing.

its definitely not good for a brawling range weapon.

its just one more reason its way inferior to a UAC20.

again i think the best way to fix heavy gauss is to limit it to one charging at a time. then you can significantly buff it without having to worry about dual heavy gauss being OP.

Edited by Khobai, 03 July 2017 - 07:47 PM.

[LordNothing]

i wish these big 11 slot guns had more hitpoints. i think i loose it in one out of four games i run them in. this has limited their brawliness somewhat.

[Johnny Z]

Khobai, on 03 July 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

heavy gauss needs to be limited to one charging up at a time

they should not allow combinations of weapons to do 50+ PPFLD.

that includes existing combinations like dual cgauss/dual cerppc which should also be nerfed.

in exchange for limiting it to 1 charging up at a time they could make it a much stronger weapon. and if knockdowns are readded they could even make heavy gauss knock mechs down when it hits them.

The difference is that Clan 50 point alpha has extreme range and its actually a 60 point alpha.

Edited by Johnny Z, 03 July 2017 - 08:03 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The difference is that Clan 50 point alpha has extreme range and its actually a 60 point alpha.

yeah that needs to be nerfed too

im all for linking gauss and ppcs for ghost heat

seems to me if you cant fire more than two ppcs without ghost heat you certainly shouldnt be able to fire two ppcs AND two gauss without ghost heat. youd still be able to run dual gauss/dual ppc, youd just have to fire them a half a second apart which makes it less likely to all hit the same location. seems fair to me.

PGI needs to crackdown on all PPFLD combinations in excess of 50+ damage

Edited by Khobai, 03 July 2017 - 08:24 PM.

[Doctor Dinosaur]

Khobai, on 03 July 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

im all for linking gauss and ppcs for ghost heat

seems to me if you cant fire more than two ppcs without ghost heat you certainly shouldnt be able to fire two ppcs AND two gauss without ghost heat. youd still be able to run dual gauss/dual ppc, youd just have to fire them a half a second apart which makes it less likely to all hit the same location. seems fair to me.

So...energy draw system?

[Storyteller]

I have loads of fun with dual Heavy Gauss on the PTR, but that's 4on4. Every mech counts a lot more than in 12on12. The time to kill is much longer in small scale fights. Imagine how this would be if you turn around the corner with your Mauler and "only" 8 enemy mechs give you a warm welcome...

I think the Heavy Gauss is a good and fun weapon, but it will not be "uber" on the live servers.

[Khobai]

Quote

So...energy draw system?

similar. but only for gauss/ppc. and it only forces you to fire them half a second apart to avoid ghost heat penalties.

[Rusharn]

I think the Heavy Gauss has enough draw backs that it will be fine if it is left as is.

[Monkey Lover]

I always had fun with them until the second my armor was off. There is almost no reason to even have structure on the mech when you run one.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 04 July 2017 - 03:48 PM.

[davoodoo]

Khobai, on 04 July 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

similar. but only for gauss/ppc. and it only forces you to fire them half a second apart to avoid ghost heat penalties.

That isnt how energy draw worked. 10energy/s

Thats however how gh worked, 0.5s between shots.

You effectively make balance changes to ghost heat and put ed ui...

Edited by davoodoo, 04 July 2017 - 06:17 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

That isnt how energy draw worked. 10energy/s

Thats however how gh worked, 0.5s between shots.

I understand exactly how energy draw and ghost heat work.

what I suggested is extremely similar to what energy draw did; which was if you used too much energy, the extra energy was converted to extra heat. energy draw forced you to fire weapons seperately to avoid the extra heat.

linking gauss/ppc in the same ghost heat group is an acceptable stopgap solution until we get a better tweaked energy draw system.

Edited by Khobai, 04 July 2017 - 06:42 PM.

[kapusta11]

You know what's more brutal? AC20 + LFE + use saved tonnage on SRMs. Or UAC20 with medium lasers.

[Tim East]

Scout Derek, on 03 July 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

gimme hug with muh lb20x2 pls :3

Have you considered doing a LB20 + AC20 mix for slightly better pinpoint? Because your post made me want to try it.