124 replies to this topic

[Emden]

Use AMS, ECM, mountains, buildings, hide behind Assault's, etc LRMs are not the problem.... nobody brings ECM or AMS anymore.

[Bishop Steiner]

must be summer vacation time, the Bads crying about LRMs ratio is escalating again.

SMH.

L2C

(as in Learn to Cover)

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

clustered into 5pts

Ironically, this means LRM damage generally concentrates better in TT than MWO.

[A Really Old Dude]

I can tell after the first salvo how effective my LRM barrage will be. Have you got ECM/Radar Derp/AMS.
7/10 times I get my own locks and I look for slow mediums/heavies or assaults to fire at. Shooting LRM's at lights is a waste of time unless they are standing still.
Its so much fun to get on the flank of a enemy, fire LRM's and watch them back up left to right across my screen. 2-3 barrages and its ready for laser time to finish then off as they charge in.
If the LRM boat stays with the death ball they can be very useful in suppressing the next target, causing screen shake and white out, as the rest swarm it. Generally any mech under LRM fire is not going to stand there in the open and duke it out unless he is one on one with the LRM boat.

[jss78]

To be fair this is a common complaint from the low-tier folks, and I think this is symptomatic of a real problem. The game needs to be fun -- and that is fun for everyone, each paying customer, no matter what tier. You want to hold on to the high-tier old whales, but every old whale was once a young whale, and for long-term viability, for sure you want hear what the low-tier experience is like.

I can't see though how this situation can be rectified with the current lock-on, fire-and-forget LRM mechanics. There are various counters to lurms, and if you know the counters lurms are mostly useless. But if you don't know the counters, lurms are OP and the game probably isn't very fun.

I guess in the perfect world we'd all be those bog-standard, tier 3 puggernauts. So that some people know how to counter lurms, but not too many people and not too well. Then lurms would be just a-ok.

Edited by jss78, 04 July 2017 - 01:53 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

Goggles Paesano, on 04 July 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

I don't know what you did to them in the last patch but this is insane! It now feels like every map is Polar or as I like to call it, Lurmageddon Hell.

Off the top of my head, a few things that can be done...

*Limit the amount of Lurm Boats per team

*Increase the loading time... the more LRMs the longer the loading time... For Example, maybe LRM20s have a 20 sec reload time while LRM 5s have a 5 sec reload time

*If 40 LRMs are shot, not all 40 of them have to hit. It would be logical that there would be a spread, even if the target is standing still.

*Make AMS more effective. Sometimes it doesn't seem like mine is doing anything at all.

Anyway, just my opinion. I now stand ready to receive the wrath of all those Lurm Boat pilots.

15 posts, doesn't show tier, whines that LURMs are OP...

I wish they were OP, maybe then my Non-LRM boats would have a reason to take LRMs as an indirect option before reaching a fight. The ONLY effective way as it is right now is to have LRM60-80 and spam them CONSTANTLY throughout a match. Because then maybe 25% of your missiles will actually do something. Whenever I see 'lumraggedon' occur its because of 3 reasons.

1. You're in the open, duh.

2. You have no missile counter systems, AMS, ECM, Radar Derp, etc.

3. Your team are all spazzing out and no one is coordinating taking out the missile boats in the case where a team has enough to actually be effective. (in which case their direct fire is lacking)

[SOL Ranger]

The answer to all issues with LRM's as I see it is to make them more reliable to use, more practical for the role they should have while making them less devastating when fired off the hip. Moving them from immediate kill weapons to a progressive indirect fire erosion weapon over time that can engage enemies more easily and as the battle progresses the enemies grow weaker because of it and proper intelligence gathering.

• IS LRM's are now also streamed to reduce immediate impact and make them more vulnerable for AMS.
  
• LRM's now fire their missiles over their whole cooldown period evenly split making the launch sequence much more time consuming while retaining their raw dps, but reducing immediate impact damage and making active countermeasures much more effective.
  
• LRM's now have a base range of 1500m to more fit in line with long range support capabilities
  
• Fitting an Active Probe on both IS and Clan allows you to target trace signatures through obstacles and buildings based on a significant range of your sensor range, however no target information is possible and target size and thus effective missile LRM spread is increased by 100%. This targeting is only available to the user only, unless a Command Console is equipped in which case trace signatures are also displayed to teammates.
  
• Fitting an Active Probe allows you to see all active enemy locks on you on your HUD that are anywhere on the map letting you lock them without LOS but only as trace signatures. A command console makes these targets visible to the whole team.
  
• Missile incoming alerts are no longer shown by default, instead AMS if fitted will now allow you to see missile incoming alerts but also they are slightly highlighted and showing the direction they come from.
  
• LRM's now have a base spread ~25% larger making damage more spread out baseline and ineffective as recklessly used weapons against unplanned multiple targets in quick succession
  
• Fitting an Active probes reduces target size/LRM spread by 5% and with command consoles stacks within the team up to 25% with slight diminishing returns.
  
• Prolonged targeting can improve lock quality significantly(and thus spread), the longer you hold an uninterrupted lock you reduce the spread of LRM's by up to 25% over a total of ~25 seconds to reach maximum(depending on factors). Trace signature locks may also be improved upon by up to 25% likewise.
  
• LRM's accelerate slightly to be able to cover longer ranges more practically, at 0m - 160m/s, 500m - 200m/s, 1000m - 250m/s and so on
  
• Radar deprivation and ECM reduce the effective range of any targeting detection by 10% and increase missile spread by 5%, they stack with eachother and several ECM up to unlikely maximum of 50% range and 25% missile spread but with heavy diminishing returns. And more targeting changes to make all that infowar work better of course...
  
• Clan LRM no longer suffer any damage loss in close range.
  
• IS LRM now suffer from the gradual close range damage reduction mechanics that Clan LRM used to suffer from.
  
• LRM's can now toggle per weapon high altitude and low altitude firing modes, high altitude firing causes the missiles to launch steeply vertically and engage the target nearly vertically as well and is much more applicable for indirect fire missions and bombardment of enemy positions. Low altitude firing mode launches missiles at the smallest of angles nearly horizontally and are more practically applicable for direct LOS combat and in cramped conditions

"Inner Sphere LRM launchers achieve their superior range by firing at a ballistic launch angle, making them less accurate at close range. Clan LRM launchers do not suffer from this effect, in addition to being smaller and more compact, thanks to their technological advantage."

...or something to that effect, it would require some serious targeting overhaul as well, I'm too tired to think about LRM's now for a while...

Reserved for all the human things, placeholders everywhere.

Edited by SOL Ranger, 04 July 2017 - 02:19 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

The complaint is one common to all newbies in just about every PvP game on the planet.

There's an easily countered but easily spammed tactic that mows down the unaware. Often, it isn't even close to the most efficient seal-clubber. It's just easy to do.

Newbies get salty because they're taken down repeatedly by the fool-killer tactic. Designers then get stuck between actually making it a decent tactic (buffing it to the level of competitive player use) or leaving it relatively ineffective, or possibly eliminating it.

The first generally makes the meta richer by adding more options as a new tactic is buffed and refined into being an actual factor in skilled play. The second is LRMs as they are in MWO. The third does nothing except make a game less diverse and a new option becomes the next seal club/salt generator.

[Stealth Tank]

LRM's will not hurt you, trust me. 3456 ammo I had 76 left when match ended. So I used 3380 LURMZ and hit also with med pulses. Around 1500-1700 LURMZ +/- did not hit the target. LRM's are FINE stop WHINING about them!!!!!

[Tordin]

Gotta be a second account salter, trying to do every possible effort to stir up LRM OP so PGI in the slightest can maybe exactly listen to such nonsense "suggestions".
Learn to adapt, so many counters! Deal with it.

[Tarl Cabot]

Stealth Tank, on 04 July 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

LRM's will not hurt you, trust me. 3456 ammo I had 76 left when match ended. So I used 3380 LURMZ and hit also with med pulses. Around 1500-1700 LURMZ +/- did not hit the target. LRM's are FINE stop WHINING about them!!!!!

It is likely less than that hit, especially if the other team were not all energy builds. Ammo explosions count as damage done.

But going in as a T5 in a LRM boat and knowing how to use them vs players who do not know how to really avoid them, have the Skill tree setup, no ECM nor AMS.. shudders... Of course that then turns around that T5s start using LRM mechs and do horribly, developing bad habits, etc...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 July 2017 - 02:42 PM.

[Goggles Paesano]

Wow... glad I made your day... Posted my opinion and got attacked for having one. Great bunch of jerks around here. I'm glad you're so great at this little free game. That must help you out so much in real life. Do you get proud of yourselves for running new people off the forums(which surely must be your intent)? I'm guessing when you were a kid you got beat up and now you've decided to be a "cyber-bully" to compensate? L-O-L! You can attack me or my opinions all you want. It wont keep me from having or stating them.

For any who actually had something constructive to say. Thank you.

I understand the concepts but hiding behind a building all day is not fun and not fair to your team. Neither is trying to move out from behind cover and getting locked on by four lurm boats... especially if you are in a slow moving mech. Thats what I call dying time in less then 30 seconds. and thats no fun at all.

Maybe its just me and I've been getting the short end of the stick lately but the LRMs have seemed to be more powerful in the last couple of weeks but I've talked to others in the game that think the same thing so.....

Edited by Goggles Paesano, 04 July 2017 - 02:56 PM.

[Stealth Tank]

If you hate LRM's SO MUCH, I have a suggestion for you! Go play one! I bet you will SUCK! You have to be strategic and constantly re-position yourself because you will be hunted. If I am in my locust I will hunt lurmers down and blow their back out! lol. IT IS PART OF THE GAME AND THE LORE.

[Stealth Tank]

Hey Goggles I don't think anyone here is against you and I am still learning, kind of a new player, maybe, somewhat. I have been killed by LRM's many many many times, LRM'd to death!!! lol It is just that there is so much LRM hate it makes no sense. Here's the deal, this game has a HUGE learning curve and it will take awhile to get to know it. Just hang in there. I still get killed by LRM's, even today lol.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Goggles Paesano, on 04 July 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Wow... glad I made your day... Posted my opinion and got attacked for having one. Great bunch of jerks around here. I'm glad you're so great at this little free game. That must help you out so much in real life. Do you get proud of yourselves for running new people off the forums(which surely must be your intent)? I'm guessing when you were a kid you got beat up and now you've decided to be a "cyber-bully" to compensate? L-O-L! You can attack me or my opinions all you want. It wont keep me from having or stating them.

For any who actually had something constructive to say. Thank you I understand the concepts but hiding behind a building all day is not fun and not fair to your team. Neither is trying to move out from behind cover and getting locked on by four lurm boats... especially if you are in a slow moving mech. Thats what I call dying time in less then 30 seconds. and thats no fun at all.

Maybe its just me and I've been getting the short end of the stick lately but the LRMs have seemed to be more powerful in the last couple of weeks but I've talked to others in the game that think the same thing so.....

There's this magical thing in the sensors tree called radar deprivation. It's a lot more effective than buzzwords or alternating between whining and ITGing on the forums.

[- World Eater -]

Stealth Tank, on 04 July 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

LRM's will not hurt you, trust me. 3456 ammo I had 76 left when match ended. So I used 3380 LURMZ and hit also with med pulses. Around 1500-1700 LURMZ +/- did not hit the target. LRM's are FINE stop WHINING about them!!!!!

All that damage and only two kills...

Edited by ThoseWhoFearTomorrow, 04 July 2017 - 03:02 PM.

[Stealth Tank]

Quote

All that damage and only two kills...

What's your point? Those damaged mechs were easily killed by other teammates. It's called teamwork.

[vandalhooch]

Goggles Paesano, on 04 July 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Wow... glad I made your day... Posted my opinion and got attacked for having one. Great bunch of jerks around here. I'm glad you're so great at this little free game. That must help you out so much in real life. Do you get proud of yourselves for running new people off the forums(which surely must be your intent)? I'm guessing when you were a kid you got beat up and now you've decided to be a "cyber-bully" to compensate? L-O-L! You can attack me or my opinions all you want. It wont keep me from having or stating them.

For any who actually had something constructive to say. Thank you.

I understand the concepts but hiding behind a building all day is not fun and not fair to your team. Neither is trying to move out from behind cover and getting locked on by four lurm boats... especially if you are in a slow moving mech. Thats what I call dying time in less then 30 seconds. and thats no fun at all.

Maybe its just me and I've been getting the short end of the stick lately but the LRMs have seemed to be more powerful in the last couple of weeks but I've talked to others in the game that think the same thing so.....

You created the stereotypical newb "X killed me so X needs to be nerfed" thread.

You created a thread on a topic that has been covered over and over again in the last few weeks.

You take more experienced players explaining how to mitigate the effectiveness of LRM's as braggadocio.

Maybe a PvP game forum isn't for you personally.

[CanadianCyrus]

Climbing aboard the nope train. LRMs are soo situational in their effectiveness that it's really up to the would be victim of the LRMs to fall victim to them. Even if both mechs were to stand out in the open and trade (lets say 400M), the splash on LRMs would likely lose out to the more pinpoint nature of energy and ballistic weapons.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Wow... glad I made your day... Posted my opinion and got attacked for having one.

You weren't attacked for having an opinion.

You were laughed at by experienced players for stating a series of factually incorrect statements.

Quote

*If 40 LRMs are shot, not all 40 of them have to hit. It would be logical that there would be a spread, even if the target is standing still.

LRMs already have a significant spread, to the point where anything bigger than an LRM 5 is guaranteed to at least whiff a missile or two on a standing, immobile target. Larger launchers are even worse. 40 LRMs fired your way will almost certainly not deal 40 damage even if you're a perfect target, and definitely not if you're even moving at modest speeds. A good rule of thumb for an LRM boat is 33% of it's damage is wasted on non-vital components due to spread, never mind whiffed missiles entirely.

Quote

*Make AMS more effective. Sometimes it doesn't seem like mine is doing anything at all.

AMS, like everything else is more effective in numbers. Three people with AMS will reduce anything short of obscene LRM salvos to the occasional point of damage (or, a single triple-AMS type like a Kit Fox.), especially Clan LRMS (which take more AMS damage due to "streaming" fire). Again, you're in newbieville- people at that level don't take AMS because they're foolish, while more experienced players don't take it because they're simply better at dodging missiles.