62 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

The one I used so far was actually fun.

So You Say, on 05 July 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

The 9 damage per second claim on the RAC5's is questionable. If they are doing that level of damage it sure is hard to tell.

Try the Academy, shooting at the turrets using the timer to measure.

[The6thMessenger]

So You Say, on 05 July 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

I found them to be useless as well. The 9 damage per second claim on the RAC5's is questionable. If they are doing that level of damage it sure is hard to tell.

Actually 10.8.

https://mwomercs.com...riday-june-30th

[Reno Blade]

I know it's just a short burst, but at 10.8dps the RAC5 can be brutal if you manage to hit with most of the projectiles.
I think the AC20 has 5dps (20dmg / 4sec).
doing 1.35dmg x 8 per second for 10.8dmg in 1sec and over 20 in 2 sec compared to AC10 with 2.5sec cooldown and AC20 with 4sec cooldown, sounds good enough for 10tons.

Ofc the spin-up and cooldown of RACs limit the constant dps, but the burst itself can be quite strong in skilled hands , and probably more so in agile med/heavy mechs where you can keep the aim where you need to.

Looking forward to Dual RAC5 +X burst builds.

Edited by Reno Blade, 06 July 2017 - 06:51 AM.

[MischiefSC]

When they come out I'll play the exact same mech with UACs vs RACs against anyone. All day every day. Bet a mech pack that unless the other player is just drastically, drastically better at the game than me I'll win 9 out of 10.

2 UAC5s will put 20 damage in a single location at 450m in less than 1 second. While they absolutely do jam at random they rarely jam as quickly as the RACs do with spin-up and can just fade into cover to unjam. Even if they don't and you have to face-tank the high heat and jam mechanic of RACs result in lower total sustained DPS on the RAC than the UAC5, even with jamming on both.

The UAC5 is better at poke, better at burst, better at sustained DPS than the RAC. The only thing the RAC does better is... look cool I guess. As a weapon it is in all ways and every mechanic inferior to UAC5.

[The6thMessenger]

MischiefSC, on 06 July 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

The UAC5 is better at poke, better at burst, better at sustained DPS than the RAC. The only thing the RAC does better is... look cool I guess. As a weapon it is in all ways and every mechanic inferior to UAC5.

Yeah, and lets face it. Poke weapons work cause PokeWarriorOnline.

[Chados]

Wildstreak, on 06 July 2017 - 05:52 AM, said:

The one I used so far was actually fun.


Try the Academy, shooting at the turrets using the timer to measure.

This. I did exactly that. Just over 10/sec.

[Monkey Lover]

MischiefSC, on 06 July 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

When they come out I'll play the exact same mech with UACs vs RACs against anyone. All day every day. Bet a mech pack that unless the other player is just drastically, drastically better at the game than me I'll win 9 out of 10.

2 UAC5s will put 20 damage in a single location at 450m in less than 1 second. While they absolutely do jam at random they rarely jam as quickly as the RACs do with spin-up and can just fade into cover to unjam. Even if they don't and you have to face-tank the high heat and jam mechanic of RACs result in lower total sustained DPS on the RAC than the UAC5, even with jamming on both.

The UAC5 is better at poke, better at burst, better at sustained DPS than the RAC. The only thing the RAC does better is... look cool I guess. As a weapon it is in all ways and every mechanic inferior to UAC5.

First day it came out I told a buddy on the TS rac5's suck as he just downloaded the pts.. Told him to make a build and we will do 1v1.

He took a warhammer with 2 rac5. I took a jager with two uac10. We started fighting i basically just walked up didn't fire and twisted my mech. Letting it hit me all over until he jammed. I waited for him to unjammed and did it again. He replied "ya they do suck" , by that time i was starting to drop my armor so I finished him off with uac10's haha

In other words, Im 100% sure you would win with 2uac5

Edited by Monkey Lover, 06 July 2017 - 06:40 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Monkey Lover, on 06 July 2017 - 06:36 PM, said:

First day it came out I told a buddy on the TS rac5's suck as he just downloaded the pts.. Told him to make a build and we will do 1v1.

He took a warhammer with 2 rac5. I took a jager with two uac10. We started fighting i basically just walked up didn't fire and twisted my mech. Letting it hit me all over until he jammed. I waited for him to unjammed and did it again. He replied "ya they do suck" , by that time i was starting to drop my armor so I finished him off with uac10's haha

In other words, Im 100% sure you would win with 2uac5

The6thMessenger, on 02 July 2017 - 04:14 AM, said:

To define our new values, lets start:

EDPS = Effective DPS, the dps of the weapon once the Jam sequence is taken account.
Burst Duration = How long can the weapon shoot continuously before Jamming.
Jam Duration = How long the weapon cannot be fired.
Jam Dissipation = How long the meter is cleared at full - that means if the gauge is completely filled and at some form of magic does not jam, it would take 4.0s for the meter to be cleared.

The purpose of Jam Dissipation is to illustrate how fast the gauge is cleared. And with the Burst Duration at 5s, but the Jam Dissipation at 4.0s - WTF? The6thMessenger? Wouldn't that mean they could just not fill the jam meter completely, let it dissipate a few and then shoot again?

Well supposed that we only used up 2.5s or half of our total damage/burst, doing 20 for the RAC2 and 25 for the RAC5? It would take 2.00s for the jam meter to be cleared + 0.25s of spin-down time + 0.25s of spinup time for the next flurry. RAC2 doing only 20 damage, that is 4 EDPS. The RAC5, doing 25 damage, only does 5 EDPS.

You know what that means? To maximize EDPS you really need to use the weapon at it's fullest extent, else just stopping midway just penalizes yourself.

How about the spin-up? That short, and not filling the gauge when spinning up, wouldn't that make spin-up time useless? People could just practice preemptively spinning it up, or macroing it to do so. And what about poking?

I wouldn't worry about poking, it's only mostly effective if you can do a most of your damage, a lot of damage, at the shortest amount of time to minimize damage being received. Not only you're preemptively building up heat without doing damage as you maintain the spin-up time, you also need to stare enemies at an idiotic amount of time which is really just bad. To put that into perspective, the RAC5 needs 1.5s of stare time to do 15 damage, when a gauss rifle could do it in an instant it hits. That means that 1.5s from a gauss rifle to stare could be used for cover, either armor rolling or side shielding, or just hiding back into cover. So really, doing so wouldn't be that efficient, so i wouldn't worry about it.

Here's a different take for the RAC system.

Would this fix it?

[Gaussfather]

Reno Blade, on 06 July 2017 - 05:25 AM, said:

Just want to make sure... you are comparing the same number of UACs to RACs, right?
a single weapon (any) does feel like wet noodles compared to vomit alpha builds.
if you have a single UAC2/5 you will not feel very satisfied, but a single RAC2/5 should already net you more burst damage, especially if you hide on the time you reach the jam-bar.

Even with a single UAC5 I can fight better than with a RAC5 and do more consistent damage. A single UAC2 is useless but I also found a single RAC2 to also be useless for the tonnage... heck even 2 of RAC2s seemed pretty useless.

The main reason is the the double tap of a UAC5 nets you 10 dmg immediately with little spread and you can keep moving. You have to essentially park to use a RAC and stare at the target. RACs work great on shut down mechs but not moving ones.

I WANT RACs to work... but you can kill faster with 1 UAC5s than 1 RAC5... I have IS light builds that use a single UAC5 successfully. Its not going to take down a fresh King Crab but as the battle goes on it starts to get kills.

[Monkey Lover]

The6thMessenger, on 06 July 2017 - 07:33 PM, said:

Would this fix it?

I think it would have been a big improvement. I wish we could have tested.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 06 July 2017 - 08:52 PM.

[MischiefSC]

The6thMessenger, on 06 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Yeah, and lets face it. Poke weapons work cause PokeWarriorOnline.

Poke weapons work because standing out in the open is stupid. For the same reason we stopped marching lines of musket infantry up out in the open and shooting at each other. It was incredibly, incredibly stupid.

[Sh4dow78]

U have to be pretty bad player then... i use 2x RAC5 and 2xML and its so easy to make 800-1000 dmg with this setup... if u aim well they core mechs pretty fast. I have no problems with them and if u a bit lucky and they dont jam right away well ... that melts enemy mechs

http://steamcommunit.../?id=1085206377

Edited by Sh4dow78, 22 July 2017 - 10:22 AM.

[Darkhorse045]

In my own experience, after using RACs, they are rather useful on certain mechs and best used in pairs. A K2 with a pair of RACs for me averages roughly 600 damage a game, with at least 1-2 kills. It is a fantastic choice of weapon.

[Sh4dow78]

Darkhorse045, on 22 July 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

In my own experience, after using RACs, they are rather useful on certain mechs and best used in pairs. A K2 with a pair of RACs for me averages roughly 600 damage a game, with at least 1-2 kills. It is a fantastic choice of weapon.

Yup, agree they work good on a specific mechs since u need to face enemy. Bushwacker imo is best for that didnt try K2 but i will. 2xRAC5 and 4ml its pretty good setup imo

[Darkhorse045]

Actually try only 2ml with the twin RACs with a light 300, 7 tons of ammo for the win!

[Princeps Ibram Cain]

I mount a RAC5 in a Cataphract and, honestly, its brings me very good kills using it as supressive fire weapon or to destroy exposed components. its a very heavy machinegun, yes, but in mi experience its not bad.

[Kjudoon]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 July 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

The problem is, in order for them to not be disappointing, they would be too strong at mowing down bad players that do a lot of staring/facetanking.

Anti-anklebiter/facehugger weaponry? Its hard to see the downside of that. Teach them bad kids to not stand on the toes of the guy they're shooting so no one else can. Its not like we are pretending that all this new weaponry is actually making time to kill less of an issue.

Edited by Kjudoon, 08 August 2017 - 07:37 AM.

[Kjudoon]

The6thMessenger, on 06 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Yeah, and lets face it. Poke weapons work cause PokeWarriorOnline.

The RAC is not a poke weapon, you're right. It's a face time weapon like a pulse laser boat. Could the bump the ghost heat on the RAC 2s to "3" and be decent? Sure.

Ultimately, it seems the RAC is a situational weapon, honestly the second ballistic I've really liked (first being Gauss and the second being the LBX10) But I also like light machine guns. Now THERE's a massed armor stripping weapon. But if poking is your game, RACs suck. If you like to blind and suppress, use it for intimidation or even to support others... It's good stuff.

So, RACs above Tier 3 which is all poke minimum TTK garbage... not so much.

[Damnedtroll]

Work well on my Banshee, not a ''WOW'' but replaced the uac20 on my 3e for twin rac2 with 2 hppc and it rocks. Start the spin up before moving, poke with the hppc while suppressing with the RAC, making your enemy unable to shoot back while you head back to cover. Doing good damage and maybe my Banshee will stay like that.

Tried it elsewhere without result. I prefer my uac5 on my cataphract and replaced my twin rotary5 on my rifleman with 4 hmg and 4 medlaser with better result.

Edited by Damnedtroll, 08 August 2017 - 10:07 AM.

[NimoStar]

Quote

;Poke weapons work because standing out in the open is stupid. For the same reason we stopped marching lines of musket infantry up out in the open and shooting at each other. It was incredibly, incredibly stupid.

Actually it wasn't, this was the optimal strategy to get kills because musket weapons were highly inaccurate, had long reload rates, and could fire just one bullet at the time.</div>

Also, Tanks don't poke at eachother, they march in the open, just as mechs should.
In fact, the firepower to destroy a 100 ton 14 metel tall endosteel-based mech would easily also wreck most metal structures on the path, just as it would easily destroy them on Mechcommander games (or the tabletop).

Point is, this isn't suppossed to be an infantry ;supress fire; game, as if we were on Iraq taking cover from AK47s fire.
We pilot giant robots with fusion engines. Yet we use them (the game forces us to use them) as if we were infantrymen on COD.

So yeah, pokewarrior online is perfect, specially because it doesn't have the &quot;mech&quot; part.

RACs had a chance to change this, making "tanking" more viable, and constant battle instead of taking your face out of the back of a building, fire once, then hide (behind a building or rock or even a TREE that by all logic would resist much less than a titanic metal warmachine of the year 3000, yet are magically indestructible) but by making RAC bad weapons, they didn't change anything.

Edited by NimoStar, 09 August 2017 - 04:21 AM.