35 replies to this topic

[Inatu Elimor]

I lost 4 games big numbers and it wasn' t me. I don' t blame my team; it was inexperienced while the enemy was. I understand PGI don' t want mechwarriors to wait to long in cue so a mismatch can happen; later it will be balanced by you playing in the experienced team vs not experienced etc.

I BELIEVE THIS NO FUN. I' d like to fight in an even match.

What is you guys opinion ?

[Chagatay]

It can happen and does happen from time to time. There are two major learning points:

1. People tend to remember bad experiences more than good experiences (more likely to remember that big loss streak rather than the win streaks). Even if said player is like "Damn, I lose all the time. What is up with that?" upon looking back at the stats will probably see something close to 1:1 w/l ratio.

2. MWO games naturally spiral once a kill lead is established. Just a 1 kill lead can quickly spiral to a 2,3 kill lead which leads to a stomp. It is just the intrinsic nature of a game with no respawn system. Fighting back from a 0:3 or 0:4 deficit is HARD, VERY HARD just relish those games when they happen (quite rare).

Overall, matchmaking isn't that bad at least in solo puglandia. Group queue obviously will be worse as it is much harder to create even teams. FaP by far the worst as it lacks any matchmaking and its population is dumpster tier.

[PyckenZot]

Matchmaker is as performant as most other F2P shooters I know.
Complaints on the forums are just as common in those forums
In x vs x shooters where x > 1, you need luck on your side as well as skill.

Live with it.

[Bud Crue]

Have you ever played golf?

Played a par 3 hole and then triple boggied? Then did the same thing over and over? Then got so mad that you wanted to break your putter in half and never play again? Then...seemingly as a grant from the golf gods, got to the par 5 on the 18th an eagled the thing? Then walked to the club house, announcing "drinks are on me!" and feeling like this game is great!
Every had that sort of experience?

Well, regardless, that is effectively the MWO match maker. You may play a bunch of horrid matches, but all it takes is one glorious game and you want nothing more that a chance to come back and do it all again; crap matches and all.

[PhoenixFire55]

You are on the Island^TM.
Matchmaker is Fine^TM and Working as Intended^TM.

[JediPanther]

If you ever want to think match maker is truly unfair go into cw or group play with just one other person in your group. There's no match making for that. Solo q is a lot more forgiving as you might get some experienced players who have been playing the game for a long time.

Play solo q long enough and you'll eventually get that rare magic random drop where all the pugs seem to be using external voice coms or have a hive mind like the borg but it is really that super rare one-out-of-hundreds match in that all your team mates are highly skilled in map awareness, know how to use their mech/weapon load out, and all focus the same target as much as possible. That match is made even better with use of the com wheel. Unfortunately I never seem to have my recording software on prior to that match and mwo doesn't let my pc alt tab once I've got mwo running.

As long as you play solo q you have loosing streaks,win streaks, and a mix of win and lose. That's just how it is with 12 random people who have less than 3 minutes to start to work as a team before most of the fighting happens and only have 15 minutes total before that team is dissolved.

The only way to make mwo as fair as possible is to get a group and do a private match set making and enforcing your own rules with such things as 'hey,lets do only ac 20 light mech raven 4xs!' Or just try stock mode and hope for the best.

[El Bandito]

You win some, you lose some. Even the most populous game in the world--League of Legends--has MM issues where stomping is regularity, and players complaining in the forums by the hundreds, on the mythical "Elo Hell".

IF PGI switch the game from 12v12 format back to 8v8 in solo-q, there will be marked improvements to matchmaking, since it will require less diverse players to fill the lobby. I doubt they will do that though.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 July 2017 - 09:43 AM.

[Gwahlur]

It's funny, yesterday I was testing Crossout, and one of the most common topics in the chat there was people complaining about the matchmaker

[Gwei Loong]

Gwahlur, on 05 July 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

It's funny, yesterday I was testing Crossout, and one of the most common topics in the chat there was people complaining about the matchmaker

This is every game that has a MM. The only games where it does not matter are MMO's. Of course MMORPG's also have groups/guilds but they are player made.
The only real problems are when the team loses and that's not even a real issue because you don't lose anything. It's just that some people can't cope with lose, we are not = in are sportsmanship. People except things better when they choose to though and if it’s a group of friends that lost together I find they are ok with that but when someone loses on a team with a person they don’t like then we sometimes hear about it. All MOBA's are like this, MWO is no different.
I kind of think Solaris is the way to go. When you are unhappy with your groups you can just drop 1 v 1. I bet it'll be way busier than the comp. Everyone who's ever complained about solo/group que should agree with this.
If I was PGI I wouldn’t waist anytime trying to fix solo/group que. If you make a que that takes 5-10 mins to find a game MWO will die. So as broken as you may make it out to be it’s better than no server to play on at all. These robots I own depend on PGI or they do not exsits.

[Brain Cancer]

The matchmaker is designed to pack games with enough players and a token amount of sorting goes on at best.

Tiering has nothing to do with skill level, and the matchmaker really doesn't care how bad people are. Trivial effort is required to hit T3, and after that you're almost guaranteed to be hanging out with T1's on down.

Especially late night NA/EU time. There isn't enough players to feed the MM, so everyone gets slopped together.

I'd rather see games sorted with similar skill and if there aren't enough players, find -one- closest to even things out and run with that. If that means games run with less than 12v12, so be it.

[J0anna]

The matchmaker (when it's working) tries to balance teams, there is no feature in the matchmaker that tries to balance wins and losses that I've ever heard of.

[Gwei Loong]

Sure but if it takes 10 mins to find a game and you still end up with 2-12 then that’s the end of MWO. We know that grouping people according to skill is not going to change the outcome of a match. Just look at the current Comp. All that skill and the matches are so one sided.
The biggest issue is the first guy in solo que that says forget so and so I am going to do this because I don't care. That's the end of the game for your team unless you can carry really hard.
I almost feel EmP/EON are the end of Comp. I do not see many people standing in line to play them. How long do people have to wait to lose a match? Why is that not working?

Edited by Gwei Loong, 05 July 2017 - 02:04 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

That's my point. In cases where the MM is strained, I'd rather have them give us smaller matches vs. "gifting" a team with horrible players that are the only method of getting a 12v12.

Even if that means a "full" game is 5v5 instead of 12v12 because all the T2 players are asleep, so I stop getting team members barely out of their cadet bonus that haven't even mastered basic controls.

[Gwei Loong]

Maybe they'll give us 1 v 1 and it would be nice if they also gave us 100 v 100 with respawns. I want something epic and big. A single battle that takes an hour like an old EQ dragon raid. I would love it if this game had 1 million players. I am starting to feel like this community of players is kind of small. Start making the groups smaller and that's even worse.

Edited by Gwei Loong, 05 July 2017 - 02:21 PM.

[Vordhosbn11]

Chagatay, on 05 July 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

It can happen and does happen from time to time. There are two major learning points:

1. People tend to remember bad experiences more than good experiences (more likely to remember that big loss streak rather than the win streaks). Even if said player is like "Damn, I lose all the time. What is up with that?" upon looking back at the stats will probably see something close to 1:1 w/l ratio.

2. MWO games naturally spiral once a kill lead is established. Just a 1 kill lead can quickly spiral to a 2,3 kill lead which leads to a stomp. It is just the intrinsic nature of a game with no respawn system. Fighting back from a 0:3 or 0:4 deficit is HARD, VERY HARD just relish those games when they happen (quite rare).

Overall, matchmaking isn't that bad at least in solo puglandia. Group queue obviously will be worse as it is much harder to create even teams. FaP by far the worst as it lacks any matchmaking and its population is dumpster tier.

[C E Dwyer]

Here we go again

The MM is built to try and give you a win loss ratio of 1/1

The better you play the more potato you have to eat

[Tarl Cabot]

MM is working, even with release valves. The issue as I see it is the PSR setup. Even if we had a larger population close matches would still be rare, called Pyrrhic win. A win which is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat.

Part of the issue though is that PSR is more like an experience bar where people tend to move up, it is not near to being a zero sum formula. On a win if you did NOTHING you break even. On a lost you can drop some or lots, break even or even gain. There are some though who will not play.. competitively though to help tanks their PSR, such as outfitting a mech w/one med laser or running a Stock IS mech, with few SHS and weapons.

On the other side of the coin, team work is OP. If one side is communicating and following through, and even being worse off they can beat a team with better stats but who, for that match, is not communicating, no one taking up the drop caller reins.

I like this one and many of the others....

https://mwomercs.com...ics-101-comics/

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 05 July 2017 - 02:55 PM.

[Wintersdark]

El Bandito, on 05 July 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

You win some, you lose some. Even the most populous game in the world--League of Legends--has MM issues where stomping is regularity, and players complaining in the forums by the hundreds, on the mythical "Elo Hell".

IF PGI switch the game from 12v12 format back to 8v8 in solo-q, there will be marked improvements to matchmaking, since it will require less diverse players to fill the lobby. I doubt they will do that though.

8v8 would help immensely.

The largest problem the MM faces is - far more than anything else - player populations. Even with 5,000 players playing concurrently, it's HARD for the MM to build matches. Nothing to do with the logic, and everything to do with the number of players and what percentage of their gaming time they are spending actively searching for a match.

PSR's "XP Bar" design is an issue, of course, but it doesn't really matter that much, simply because there's so few players available at any given instant that the MM basically has to take whoever it can get.

8v8 would allow far tighter matchmaking, as it only needs 16 instead of 24 players of comparable rating. This can be the difference between it being able to make 2 crappy matches, or it being able to make 3 average matches.

Having just a couple outliers on a team can really degrade quality, as anyone who's played the game can attest: When you've got that raw newbie/shockingly bad potato that sets your team down 1 right off the bat because he runs directly into the OpFor, you're probably going to lose that match, even if the other team also has a terribad potato, as numbers matter so much.


But, i fear you're correct: We're not going to see 8v8 soloqueue matches anytime soon

[Wintersdark]

Cathy, on 05 July 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

Here we go again

The MM is built to try and give you a win loss ratio of 1/1

The better you play the more potato you have to eat

You can say that, and the end result of a MM working well (and not being forced to open release valves) will result in that, but the MM does NOT try to give you a win/loss ratio of 1:1.

Saying it does leads to people believing the MM does things it doesn't do. It doesn't care about anyone in particular at all, it doesn't even know player's W/L ratios.

Because of the PSR implementation, you'll continue gaining rating even when you're at 1:1, so you have to be unusually bad to actually lose rating reliably even if you're currently "overrated".


TLDR:
Players having a WLR of 1:1 is the sign of a good MM (with sufficient players) working, but the MM doesn't actually try to get you there.

Edited by Wintersdark, 05 July 2017 - 02:58 PM.

[vandalhooch]

JENNER llC, on 05 July 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

wasnt there a post where someone did research on mm? cross referencing the players vs the results over a series of matches

the findings showed a trend of mm purposefully team stacking, the outcome of the game predetermined 90% of the time on stats

*this one maybe https://mwomercs.com...96#entry5701696

Oh please, don't bring up that pseudo-statistical nonsense again. There's nothing actually there to discuss.