207 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

Alteran, on 12 July 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

I didn't want to post here again, but what the hell... maybe, just maybe Russ will get it (hope... yeah I know).

The main game portion really is not the issue in CW/FW/FP, in fact IMO the improvements to maps, implementation of base elements and cosmetic improvements to the game from launch till now have all made the core game beautiful. That's where this ends though. CW/FW/FP is not and has never been about the main game. CW/FW/FP should have been the logistics of managing a unit (Mech stocks, rearm and refit), politics of the Inner Sphere and control of key resource planets.

PGI you have failed CW/FW/FP in every aspect of this.

A large Merc unit? The economics of running such a unit should have been staggering and having them running on the edge all the time, giving them incentives to running lean and mean. Population control would have been more along the lines of self-preservation, rather than putting all their eggs in one or two baskets and risk imploding the unit with one or two bad contracts.

Loyalist Units would have been the meat and potatoes of the entire system, rather than the frowned upon faction they are now.

Wake up and get with it. Maybe, just maybe you might gain back what you have lost. Right now, whatever you do with MWO, MW5 and MWO2 will be judged by where you take this.

Back at the height of phase 2 I wouldn't have been against a unit cap of like 128. It was 512 (not sure what it is now). Clearly 512 was too high. 512 rivaled the size of some of the houses, especially their active players. It wouldnt stop people from working together but it would prevent any 1 unit from 100% zerging everything for themselves (leaderboards, prizes, and challenges for example).

Edited by Kin3ticX, 12 July 2017 - 08:44 PM.

[50 50]

Commander A9, on 12 July 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

I wouldn't call Faction Warfare a 'corpse.' Plenty still play. My team still plays, and we enjoy ourselves every night.

Hell, we just clashed with BCMC-it was a tough-fought match, and I think both sides loved the action.

If it was a corpse, then it would have zero players, right?

Depends on the time of day. At the time you posted this it was around midday for me and I was at work (reading forum posts and being productive obviously). I'll go check it out in 30 min or so and see how it's going, but last night around this time it was wasted effort.

We have to consider that the game is available internationally so we need some flexibility in our ability to drop into battle and play the game.

It might also be that at the time you were online and getting in some drops there might have just been enough players to make a team on both sides and that's it.

Not exactly a healthy population.
FP may not be a corpse but it does use and iron lung for extended periods and is inaccessible.

Being able to get smaller games of 4 v 4 will not hurt the mode and certainly doesn't prevent or diminish the larger scale battles or units that can gather enough players easily to form those big groups. If anything, simply being able to get into the game and start fighting will encourage more players to participate.

Kin3ticX, on 12 July 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

If you are Kurita and you are in a Dragon the game doesnt detect it and give you perhaps +LP +CB or even +XP, nothing. Even if the mech is bad every faction has 1 faction favorite(Steiner Atlas, Liao Vindicator etc etc). It would be super easy to throw the RP guys a bone like that.

It doesnt have to be that though. What about the faction cockpit items? Kurita items should give micro LP bonuses but they dont. What about the faction camos too?

Absolutely. Even bonus LP for using a 'Faction mech' would be a nice touch.
Another variable we can work with is the drop deck tonnages.
Consider if the loyalty mechs actually had a discounted weight when considering the drop deck tonnage limit.
ie. a 65 ton 'faction mech' only counts as 60 tons when used in a drop deck by players of that faction.
I linked to some concepts for repairs and logistics in the other post.
'Faction mechs' could cost less in both logistic and repair costs.

I'd like to discuss the Space Nerd Politics a bit more.
We didn't have a huge amount of that in the game previously, just the voting who to attack from memory though I might have missed some aspects.
If we had a system for the IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan conflicts as discussed in the other thread, it be conceivable to vote for items that might benefit your faction, but what about negative effects on an opposing faction? ie. a drop deck tonnage penalty for a week, increased costs (repairs and logistics again), or perhaps some in game penalty like slower cap speeds or consumable recharge rates.

What aspects of Space Nerd Politics would enhance and contribute to rivalries and alliances?
Oh, speaking of, it might be difficult to setup alliances and rivalries at a faction level, but perhaps it's something that could get some functionality at a unit level. Might work nicely when combined with the call to arms and have it specifically directed at selected units.

[Kin3ticX]

50 50, on 13 July 2017 - 02:14 AM, said:

Depends on the time of day. At the time you posted this it was around midday for me and I was at work (reading forum posts and being productive obviously). I'll go check it out in 30 min or so and see how it's going, but last night around this time it was wasted effort.

We have to consider that the game is available internationally so we need some flexibility in our ability to drop into battle and play the game.

It might also be that at the time you were online and getting in some drops there might have just been enough players to make a team on both sides and that's it.

Not exactly a healthy population.
FP may not be a corpse but it does use and iron lung for extended periods and is inaccessible.

Being able to get smaller games of 4 v 4 will not hurt the mode and certainly doesn't prevent or diminish the larger scale battles or units that can gather enough players easily to form those big groups. If anything, simply being able to get into the game and start fighting will encourage more players to participate.



Absolutely. Even bonus LP for using a 'Faction mech' would be a nice touch.
Another variable we can work with is the drop deck tonnages.
Consider if the loyalty mechs actually had a discounted weight when considering the drop deck tonnage limit.
ie. a 65 ton 'faction mech' only counts as 60 tons when used in a drop deck by players of that faction.
I linked to some concepts for repairs and logistics in the other post.
'Faction mechs' could cost less in both logistic and repair costs.

I'd like to discuss the Space Nerd Politics a bit more.
We didn't have a huge amount of that in the game previously, just the voting who to attack from memory though I might have missed some aspects.
If we had a system for the IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan conflicts as discussed in the other thread, it be conceivable to vote for items that might benefit your faction, but what about negative effects on an opposing faction? ie. a drop deck tonnage penalty for a week, increased costs (repairs and logistics again), or perhaps some in game penalty like slower cap speeds or consumable recharge rates.

What aspects of Space Nerd Politics would enhance and contribute to rivalries and alliances?
Oh, speaking of, it might be difficult to setup alliances and rivalries at a faction level, but perhaps it's something that could get some functionality at a unit level. Might work nicely when combined with the call to arms and have it specifically directed at selected units.

Space nerd politics was a thing during phase2 which was during 2015. Here some examples.


Everyone wanted to kill NKVA because of all the shittalking they did on top of beating teams up. They put meaning into CW, they upped the stakes. They did hilarious stuff in the forums but the SJW whale babies made sure to turn these forums into a safespace.

Space nerd politics can also mean something as simple as -MS- going to 228 and talking about which faction to play on during an event. Collusion I guess.

Mercstar commonly had people paying us to do stuff. We actually pulled off operation bulldog by wiping out CSJ and we were paid to do it. Ironically phase 3 killed this feature or workaround or loophole. A player would temp join -MS- and deposit 50-100 million cbills or so in the coffers and then leave. PHASE THREE PREVENTED LOYALISTS FROM BEING ABLE TO PAY A MERC TO DO SOMETHING.....

Simply put, just being able to transfer coffer cbills from unit to unit would allow players to roleplay whatever contract they want. They can pay you to fight or anything really. PGI thought this was dumb I guess......sigh....or they are just oblivious.....

PGI doesn't get any of that and the dudes at the roundtables fail to get to these small yet somewhat important items simply because so much is jacked up.



I cannot reiterate this enough. Space Nerd Politics is the key to CW and phase 3 and 4 squashed all that.

PGI just has to give the basics and the players can fluff it up some on their own if they have to. We just dont have the basics and PGI had some other plan I guess. The player roundtables absolutely do not help and especially the secret ones.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 13 July 2017 - 02:54 AM.

[50 50]

Better functionality around the mercenary contracts and allowing better inter unit interaction be it rivalry or alliances.

Yep.

Totally on board with that.

We have the unit screen to manage members.
Wouldn't seem too much of a stretch to add some menu and messaging system in there to allow notices to be posted between units and setup this sort of thing.
Also be nice to get a more visual organisation of the members in there.

I wrote up something along those lines in the Loyalty Points as currency thread that might interest you. I would appreciate any feedback.

.
.
.

Also.... been perhaps 45 minutes waiting for a game now. Even drove down the road and back.

[M A N T I S]

Feel free to spitball specifics, but the root of the problem is that FP has no end-state (i.e. no win condition), thus rendering it pointless.

A wonderfully thought out design was proposed by Sjorpha long ago, and sadly was overlooked by PGI. To me, this (or something similar) is was must happen to make FP work.

https://mwomercs.com...ame-suggestion/

[Kin3ticX]

M A N T I S, on 13 July 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

Feel free to spitball specifics, but the root of the problem is that FP has no end-state (i.e. no win condition), thus rendering it pointless.

A wonderfully thought out design was proposed by Sjorpha long ago, and sadly was overlooked by PGI. To me, this (or something similar) is was must happen to make FP work.

https://mwomercs.com...ame-suggestion/

ideally the players create their own objectives

PGI hamstrung the faction map by trying to support 10 factions. They either needed to zoom in on a corner of the map or enforce hard alliances to make it 4 or 5 factions while still keeping all 10.

Even then though the mode can barely support 1 bukkit for a laundry list of reasons. Something like CW is allmost like a lifeform that you cant neglect for months only then to deliver a dud patch and then 8 months later deliver a bandaid fix.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 13 July 2017 - 01:50 PM.

[Kael Posavatz]

I think Phase III managed to clear out almost everyone's TS.

PGI was fairly heavily invested in CW for about six months, but this could really be boiled down to FW, 6 maps, and 1 Tukayyid event. Then they went off and ignored it while they did other things (That-Game-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named).

Then in a townhall RB made some favorable comments to World of Warships so they tried to run these 1-faction, 24hr missions, only to give up before getting through all of the factions.

The fact of the matter is that PGI has ignored it for months (on multiple occasions), and has delivered dud patches, and has taken 8 months to fix. (I think that is actually the timeline to get the Long Tom removed.)

The thing that irks me, is they keep saying they're going to change things. When the Roundtables first came up, they were pitched as a way to solicit ideas for narrow-focus, high-impact, fast-turnaround actionables. Basically generate a lot of minimal changes that would have a high positive-value change.

What they got took six months from a 'let's have roundtable' to patch. Most of that time the only thing PGI said was 'wait for MechCon'. And we got...this.

[Deathlike]

Kin3ticX, on 13 July 2017 - 02:46 AM, said:

Space nerd politics was a thing during phase2 which was during 2015. Here some examples.


Everyone wanted to kill NKVA because of all the shittalking they did on top of beating teams up. They put meaning into CW, they upped the stakes. They did hilarious stuff in the forums but the SJW whale babies made sure to turn these forums into a safespace.

Space nerd politics can also mean something as simple as -MS- going to 228 and talking about which faction to play on during an event. Collusion I guess.

Mercstar commonly had people paying us to do stuff. We actually pulled off operation bulldog by wiping out CSJ and we were paid to do it. Ironically phase 3 killed this feature or workaround or loophole. A player would temp join -MS- and deposit 50-100 million cbills or so in the coffers and then leave. PHASE THREE PREVENTED LOYALISTS FROM BEING ABLE TO PAY A MERC TO DO SOMETHING.....

Simply put, just being able to transfer coffer cbills from unit to unit would allow players to roleplay whatever contract they want. They can pay you to fight or anything really. PGI thought this was dumb I guess......sigh....or they are just oblivious.....

PGI doesn't get any of that and the dudes at the roundtables fail to get to these small yet somewhat important items simply because so much is jacked up.



I cannot reiterate this enough. Space Nerd Politics is the key to CW and phase 3 and 4 squashed all that.

PGI just has to give the basics and the players can fluff it up some on their own if they have to. We just dont have the basics and PGI had some other plan I guess. The player roundtables absolutely do not help and especially the secret ones.

I feel like any secret roundtable that didn't honestly discuss the ramifications (perceived or real) of the Long Tom is one that suggests noone did any (legitimate) debate and/or did not really consider the amplification of a roflstomp force it was on the queues.... especially since it's the equivalent of EmP roflstomping everyone... every two effing minutes.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 July 2017 - 02:39 PM.

[Livewyr]

Assuming gameplay was balanced out. (As opposed to what we have now.)

I would have worlds with logistics, fought over by units that are assigned to their umbrella factions. (Assigned being a loose term.)
No random single players- units with logistics. (Allowing for some actual strategy.)

Planetary MC awarded per cycle owned with assets on planet (and lore value) determining the value of the planet.
Planets would also have logistics quirks (cost of mechs/weapons.. etc things to make it interesting and part of strategy in owning.)

Basically, a player driven and guided unit warfare with strategy (in addition to tactics) instead of picking one of two hamster wheels.

Population has already been squandered though.

[Crockdaddy]

Kin3ticX, on 13 July 2017 - 02:46 AM, said:

Space nerd politics was a thing during phase2 which was during 2015. Here some examples.


Everyone wanted to kill NKVA because of all the shittalking they did on top of beating teams up. They put meaning into CW, they upped the stakes. They did hilarious stuff in the forums but the SJW whale babies made sure to turn these forums into a safespace.

Space nerd politics can also mean something as simple as -MS- going to 228 and talking about which faction to play on during an event. Collusion I guess.

Mercstar commonly had people paying us to do stuff. We actually pulled off operation bulldog by wiping out CSJ and we were paid to do it. Ironically phase 3 killed this feature or workaround or loophole. A player would temp join -MS- and deposit 50-100 million cbills or so in the coffers and then leave. PHASE THREE PREVENTED LOYALISTS FROM BEING ABLE TO PAY A MERC TO DO SOMETHING.....

Simply put, just being able to transfer coffer cbills from unit to unit would allow players to roleplay whatever contract they want. They can pay you to fight or anything really. PGI thought this was dumb I guess......sigh....or they are just oblivious.....

PGI doesn't get any of that and the dudes at the roundtables fail to get to these small yet somewhat important items simply because so much is jacked up.



I cannot reiterate this enough. Space Nerd Politics is the key to CW and phase 3 and 4 squashed all that.

PGI just has to give the basics and the players can fluff it up some on their own if they have to. We just dont have the basics and PGI had some other plan I guess. The player roundtables absolutely do not help and especially the secret ones.

I'd like to claim a large chunk of credit for the NKVA beast. Kurita at the time sucked bad. The only strong unit which could consistently beat the clans was NS and NS completely dominated most of its matches. 9SD, Arkab, 3TL, and a few others at the time were very weak. NKVA showed up and started dropping with us. We showed them the ropes and very quickly while most of Kurita couldn't stand NS (Prophetic was a bit hard on our allies) NKVA loved us and had the thick skin and forum chops to handle it all and quickly they became our biggest ally in Kurita while also becoming a strong cohesive unit. We had a blast rolling through Davion space, clan space. It was so bad other groups called NS guys honorable because of all the flak Scoops and his group took. We supported them through it all. I've tried a few times to get them back ... but the state of MWO is what it is. The game at some point realistically needs a fresh point of view or reboot. I suspect that won't happen until after the single player release (which I will buy of course). It didn't help several prominent Davions and Clan Wolf would literally whine to Russ on twitter about how naughty NKVA was being. I hope they enjoy what they have because right now its basically boring. The Space Nerd RP Rage was all we had beyond the basic 12 v 12 giant solaris game mode.

Scoops!! I miss you!!

[Carl Vickers]

Crockdaddy, on 13 July 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

It didn't help several prominent Davions and Clan Wolf would literally whine to Russ on twitter about how naughty NKVA was being. I hope they enjoy what they have because right now its basically boring. The Space Nerd RP Rage was all we had beyond the basic 12 v 12 giant solaris game mode.

Scoops!! I miss you!!

QFT

[Deathlike]

Crockdaddy, on 13 July 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

I'd like to claim a large chunk of credit for the NKVA beast. Kurita at the time sucked bad. The only strong unit which could consistently beat the clans was NS and NS completely dominated most of its matches. 9SD, Arkab, 3TL, and a few others at the time were very weak. NKVA showed up and started dropping with us. We showed them the ropes and very quickly while most of Kurita couldn't stand NS (Prophetic was a bit hard on our allies) NKVA loved us and had the thick skin and forum chops to handle it all and quickly they became our biggest ally in Kurita while also becoming a strong cohesive unit. We had a blast rolling through Davion space, clan space. It was so bad other groups called NS guys honorable because of all the flak Scoops and his group took. We supported them through it all. I've tried a few times to get them back ... but the state of MWO is what it is. The game at some point realistically needs a fresh point of view or reboot. I suspect that won't happen until after the single player release (which I will buy of course). It didn't help several prominent Davions and Clan Wolf would literally whine to Russ on twitter about how naughty NKVA was being. I hope they enjoy what they have because right now its basically boring. The Space Nerd RP Rage was all we had beyond the basic 12 v 12 giant solaris game mode.

Scoops!! I miss you!!

Yes, I would blame the Clan that cried Wolf for many things that has pooped here.

1) The loss of NKVA (directly or indirectly).

2) That guy with the caps in his name that spewed lots of randomness (haven't seen him in a while) w/o really backing anything up.

3) The other guy that doesn't quite know the meaning of the word "balance" unless Clans were still kept OP (can't name names after all).

It's no wonder we had SWOL Tier lists!

[Bud Crue]

Kael Posavatz, on 13 July 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

I think Phase III managed to clear out almost everyone's TS.

Yup. When I started I joined SO. We were a bunch of casuals just trying to join together with no restrictions other than to try an learn how to play the mode more effectively than by ourselves. We regularly had 2 12 mans running and on weekends sometimes 3. For Tuk 1 and 2, 1-5 teams were running around the clock.

Yet despite being mostly casuals who often got stomped, we had fun. But because we were among those nasty, oversized units (when I left I think we had a roster of 443) we were apparently one of those groups ruining CW. When the unit tax came a lot of the more casual, casuals just left to help make room. When phase III hit a lot of the more dedicated players left too. Some went on to join other units and I see them to this day...in group queue. But even those I still keep in contact I know only maybe three that still play CW regularly.

Phase III killed this mode but a lot of other changes have helped keep players away. Even now on the Kurita/FRR server I rarely see more then one 12 man up top, and occasionally two on a weekend. Always mixed teams. Only time I've seen more than that was during the last Tukayid. And where in the past teams like ISEN and a other loyalists would go around channels trying to get folks fired up about trying to recover lost planets and RP stuff like that, the only thing that seems to draw folks in now are massive rewards.

Sigh.

We can argue all day about what is broken and what went wrong and what is needed to make it better. But in the end, unless PGI consciously and publicly acknowledge the limitations of the mode and then engage both the mode and you remaining folks who still play it to make it better, all while raising awareness with the rest of the QP playing community to draw awareness to the mode and whatever REAL improvements (regardless of what they are) that they make as part of that engagement...none of it will matter at all.

[Kin3ticX]

The next CW roundtable should be Scoops and Crockdaddy just dropping truthbombs on Russ.

[Carl Vickers]

Kin3ticX, on 13 July 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

The next CW roundtable should be Scoops and Crockdaddy just dropping truthbombs on Russ.

Lol, shortest round table in history as Russ would end it in 5 seconds.

[Kin3ticX]

Crockdaddy, on 13 July 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

It didn't help several prominent Davions and Clan Wolf would literally whine to Russ on twitter about how naughty NKVA was being. I hope they enjoy what they have because right now its basically boring. The Space Nerd RP Rage was all we had beyond the basic 12 v 12 giant solaris game mode.

Scoops!! I miss you!!

First they have every player do an ultra mega 5 report alpha strike. Then they head to support@mwomercs.com and Russ's twitter and type: "OMG PGI NKVA MEMED AND STOMPED US AT THE SAME TIME PLEASE BAN THEM REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE BTW WILL REFUND XYZ MECHPACK"

[Kin3ticX]

Deathlike, on 13 July 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

Yes, I would blame the Clan that cried Wolf for many things that has pooped here.

1) The loss of NKVA (directly or indirectly).

2) That guy with the caps in his name that spewed lots of randomness (haven't seen him in a while) w/o really backing anything up.

3) The other guy that doesn't quite know the meaning of the word "balance" unless Clans were still kept OP (can't name names after all).

It's no wonder we had SWOL Tier lists!

google "SWOL shiptoaster ranking"

good laughs if you havent seen it

[Deathlike]

Kin3ticX, on 13 July 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

google "SWOL shiptoaster ranking"

good laughs if you havent seen it

I am disappoint. No srsly.

I regularly read the Salt-Mining Monday threads. I'm proud that people remember things like it were yesterday.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

This game would be better balance by selling it off to Wargaming and making it the Russian's problem.

[Carl Vickers]

Kin3ticX, on 13 July 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

google "SWOL shiptoaster ranking"

good laughs if you havent seen it

You can even add to it if you want, tis still a great laugh though, needs more updating to reflect current times and the old one preserved for prosperity.