26 replies to this topic

[Humpday]

Should that not be more than 4? Just to match the damage output of firing of standard dual ppcs? Then anything more would trigger heat?

Dang pts closed before i reviewed the heat/cooldown/range.

I actually didn't pay mind to it till i realized the Uziel was dropping soon.

Edited by Humpday, 05 July 2017 - 02:39 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Humpday, on 05 July 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

Should that not be more than 4? Just to match the damage output of firing of standard dual ppcs? Then anything more would trigger heat?

Dang pts closed before i reviewed the heat/cooldown/range.

I actually didn't pay mind to it till i realized the Uziel was dropping soon.

2 PPCs = 20 damage, 14 tons, 6 slots.
4 LPPCs = 20 damage, 12 tons, 8 slots.

Most people have more slots than tons available... So just use normal PPCs if you want to shoot 20 damage of Particle Cannon... Or 2 snubbies if you want to do that while saving those 2 tons.

The only time I had mounted massed LPPCs was when I mounted 6 of them to replace 3 normal PPCs and set them into two groups of 3. That seemed to work well for me.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 July 2017 - 02:49 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ahh...Umm....there is this on the last PTS changes on June 30th.

Energy

• Light PPC
  
  • Increased the minimum heat penalty trigger to 4 (from 3)
    
  • Component Health reduced to 5 (from 7.5)

Link: https://mwomercs.com...riday-june-30th


Pretty sure it is actually 4 unless PGI changes it between now and patch day.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 05 July 2017 - 03:01 PM.

[Humpday]

Maybe it was UI bug, I never actually tested it, I just remember seeing the message in the "!" section.

I dunno, I hope they let you fire 4 without penalty.
Its a little annoying having paid for mech mounting 4, Lppcs, just to find out you can't shoot them.

I basically forgot about light ppcs becuase I was having too much fun with Snubs.

Edited by Humpday, 05 July 2017 - 03:07 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Promessa, on 05 July 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

You're reading it wrong, you can fire 3, the fourth is penalized. It used to be the third.

That is possible. I am definitely reading it as 4 being the maximum you can fire without ghost heat applying. In any case, if it is indeed 3 I hope that is one of the "Large" amount of changes they are making prior to the tech going live.

[Tarogato]

Viktor Drake, on 05 July 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

That is possible. I am definitely reading it as 4 being the maximum you can fire without ghost heat applying. In any case, if it is indeed 3 I hope that is one of the "Large" amount of changes they are making prior to the tech going live.

Yeah, the way the game describes it is "minheatpenaltylevel" which means the minimum number of copies of the weapon that will trigger a heat penalty. So minheatpenaltylevel="4" means you can fire 3 for free and the 4th triggers a penalty.

[Y E O N N E]

Prosperity Park, on 05 July 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

2 PPCs = 20 damage, 14 tons, 6 slots.
4 LPPCs = 20 damage, 12 tons, 8 slots.

Most people have more slots than tons available... So just use normal PPCs if you want to shoot 20 damage of Particle Cannon... Or 2 snubbies if you want to do that while saving those 2 tons.

The only time I had mounted massed LPPCs was when I mounted 6 of them to replace 3 normal PPCs and set them into two groups of 3. That seemed to work well for me.

A bump from 2 to 3 was pointless because all it enabled was firing 15+15 and I could already fire a PPC and an LPPC together for no penalty and actually less heat. It has to be 4 to for the ghost heat change to have any meaningful impact on the game, otherwise I just use them as chain-fire weapons in sync with UAC fire on DPS builds...the one thing they are actually really good at.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 July 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

A bump from 2 to 3 was pointless because all it enabled was firing 15+15 and I could already fire a PPC and an LPPC together for no penalty and actually less heat. It has to be 4 to for the ghost heat change to have any meaningful impact on the game, otherwise I just use them as chain-fire weapons in sync with UAC fire on DPS builds...the one thing they are actually really good at.

Even on a Sparky I thought the sustained DPS wasn't too bad with 6 LPPCs firing 3 and 3. I was having ping issues though so I didn't really get a good read on its efficacy.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 July 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

A bump from 2 to 3 was pointless because all it enabled was firing 15+15 and I could already fire a PPC and an LPPC together for no penalty and actually less heat. It has to be 4 to for the ghost heat change to have any meaningful impact on the game, otherwise I just use them as chain-fire weapons in sync with UAC fire on DPS builds...the one thing they are actually really good at.

3 Lights weigh a ton less than a light and a normal at the expense of a hardpoint and a slot.

You would need two PPCs and two Light PPCs to match 6 LPPCs. And firing 3LPPCs x 3 LPPCs generates no GH just like firing 1PPC 1LPPC x 1PPC 1LPPC. It just weighs less to use all 6 energy hardpoints. PPC ghost heat is linked to the light PPCs, so firing 2 PPCs and 1 Light taxes you a GH penalty as if you were packing 3 PPCs.

PPCs still help for when you have fewer hardpoints available or want to deal 20 dmg. Lights are good for when you want to tag 5+ dmg on something, or run 3x3 Lights instead of 2x1 nornals, or 3L instead of a 1+1 mix

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 July 2017 - 06:15 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Prosperity Park, on 05 July 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

3 Lights weigh a ton less than a light and a normal at the expense of a hardpoint and a slot.

You would need two PPCs and two Light PPCs to match 6 LPPCs. And firing 3LPPCs x 3 LPPCs generates no GH just like firing 1PPC 1LPPC x 1PPC 1LPPC. It just weighs less to use all 6 energy hardpoints. PPC ghost heat is linked to the light PPCs, so firing 2 PPCs and 1 Light taxes you a GH penalty as if you were packing 3 PPCs.

PPCs still help for when you have fewer hardpoints available or want to deal 20 dmg. Lights are good for when you want to tag 5+ dmg on something, or run 3x3 Lights instead of 2x1 nornals, or 3L instead of a 1+1 mix

It's 18 tons versus 20 tons. I'm generating a whole point of heat less with the 2xPPC+2xLPPC combo and I've saved two slots. Functionally, they are equivalent on any 'Mech you would run this on to such a degree that the ability to fire 3x3 LPPC has no impact on the game.

Lights are only good when you need the tonnage to get more heatsinks in for better sustain, i.e. on a UAC/5 WHM-6R, because the extra DHS you can fit in that context outstrips the reduced heat from standard PPC and the front-loaded nature is less important than being able to stay on-station and keep your target twisting. If LPPC had an additional perk in some stat, like shorter cool-down, there would be more incentive to run them 3+3. but they don't.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 July 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

It's 18 tons versus 20 tons. I'm generating a whole point of heat less with the 2xPPC+2xLPPC combo and I've saved two slots. Functionally, they are equivalent on any 'Mech you would run this on to such a degree that the ability to fire 3x3 LPPC has no impact on the game.

Lights are only good when you need the tonnage to get more heatsinks in for better sustain, i.e. on a UAC/5 WHM-6R, because the extra DHS you can fit in that context outstrips the reduced heat from standard PPC and the front-loaded nature is less important than being able to stay on-station and keep your target twisting. If LPPC had an additional perk in some stat, like shorter cool-down, there would be more incentive to run them 3+3. but they don't.

I think you kinda implied that the two choices (all lights or mixed) is somewhat balanced by the choice of weight savings, slots , tons, heat point... No overt incentive to run one one over the other, just minor context-sensitive considerations... Single lights have their place; Massed lights have not obsoleted the normal...

Balance..? Blasphemy!

Edited by Prosperity Park, 05 July 2017 - 06:30 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Prosperity Park, on 05 July 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

I think you kinda implied that the two choices (all lights or mixed) is somewhat balanced by the choice of weight savings, slots , tons, heat point... No over incentive to run one ones r the other, just minor context-sensitive considerations...

Balance..? Blasphemy!

I'm not really arguing for balance, just pointing out that the increase of the GH limit to 3 didn't do anything distinctive to change its position in the game. The LPPC is distinctive in that it is better in a DPS build, but only by virtue of its reduced weight and nothing else. Otherwise, there's little reason to use the LPPC instead of a standard PPC (though I did find one exception: a Gauss with 1x ER PPC and 1x LPPC gives you 30 PPFLD for not too much heat and only 25 tons).

[Khobai]

changing GH limits isnt ever going to make the LPPC distinct as a weapon

LPPC needs something else like increased max range and increased velocity compared to PPCs

there needs to be a stronger reason to use it over other PPCs.

[CanadianCyrus]

Khobai, on 05 July 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

changing GH limits isnt ever going to make the LPPC distinct as a weapon

LPPC needs something else like increased max range and increased velocity compared to PPCs

there needs to be a stronger reason to use it over other PPCs.

One argument for it I suppose is that if chain fired in large enough numbers, they can better manage heat and keep up firing at higher heats without pushing it into shutdown or heat damage.

[Major Tomm]

PPCs are already to hot due to DHS 1.4, they should relax the Ghost Heat to allow 3 regular PPCs to be fired together. 4 for Light PPCs. You can only fire 3xPPCs once or twice before having to wait to cooldown or shutdown so what's the point?

[Kaptain]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 July 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

A bump from 2 to 3 was pointless because all it enabled was firing 15+15 and I could already fire a PPC and an LPPC together for no penalty and actually less heat.

My raven and atlas quite like the increase to 3

[Y E O N N E]

Kaptain, on 05 July 2017 - 08:17 PM, said:

My raven and atlas quite like the increase to 3

#2FullPPCsorBust

Boom Ravens are my thing. Even energy boom!

[El Bandito]

I still see no point in LPPC, except as fillers for certain regular PPC builds.

[FireStoat]

I think the more important issue for Light PPC's (and Heavy, and Snub nosed for that matter) are mechs that possess PPC quirks only working on specific kinds of PPC's. In a game that now has 4 choices for IS. I wish PGI would just classify the quirks as "IS PPC's" for use on the tooltip and be done with it, giving IS a bone.

[QuantumButler]

FireStoat, on 05 July 2017 - 11:16 PM, said:

I think the more important issue for Light PPC's (and Heavy, and Snub nosed for that matter) are mechs that possess PPC quirks only working on specific kinds of PPC's. In a game that now has 4 choices for IS. I wish PGI would just classify the quirks as "IS PPC's" for use on the tooltip and be done with it, giving IS a bone.

I am pretty sure most PPC quirks just function with PCC class weapons now, barring one or two outliers like the Thunderbolt variant no one uses and that terrible Awesome 9M