124 replies to this topic

[Asym]

90 to 140 is not the norm?

Really?

I'm not a bad player and seriously took the time to master that Stormcrow.....

So far, the Hellbringer is worse than the Stormcrow. I play everyday.

Geeze, if you're a NOOB and mastering in 40 matches, something is a miss me thinks. I have, in the 5 months now, post skill tree change, not run into one person less than 75 games..........

[Jay Leon Hart]

Looking over my stats, when I was new it took me 30-40 matches to Master a 'mech. Under the new system, it would have taken 20-30% longer to unlock 91 SP.

Old Mastery = 57,250 XP
91 SP = 72,800 XP

So newbie me would have taken 36-52 matches to unlock 91 SP, with (IIRC) a K/D and W/L of ~0.7-0.8

[Gwahlur]

Viktor Drake, on 08 July 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

I have....

I don't really see how that is relevant to the newbie experience?

[Asym]

Perception?

Seriously? 143 games in a Stormcrow and actually playing the "mastering the mech challenge" with a Hellbringer, real-time with perspective players.... A bad salesman? I want my friends to play so I CAN STAY IN THIS GAME !

I will not lie, cheat or steal and they asked because they value what I "perceive." I love this game and they know that.

If the game play itself can't sell the game; or, the rude language we experienced; or, the "get off the map" and "stop whining" comments; or, the "share armor" that always equates to "let the NOOB die first" so it's easier for the T1/2's to clean house; or, "push now!" and you find you and the other NOOBS are the only mechs getting slaughtered (and, you hear the more expereinced players laughing); and, the list goes on......

Perception IS REALITY in the gaming environment......

[CFC Conky]

Hi Asym,

Further to my previous post, if you are dropping in group queue with your friends, then yeah, it's going to suck for a while since group queue is way more brutal than solo q.

That said, a new player will get stomped more because of the opposibg player's skill than the mech itself. A rookie in a fully skilled mech will probably get stomped just as quickly. Unfortunately - or fortunately, depending on your point of view, MWO has a very steep and long-ish learning curve. Couple that with some of the unpleasant behaviour you see online and I can understand why a tire-kicker might not stick around.

I hope you and your friends stay with the game, it does get better.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[GrimRiver]

People's issue is "How many matches do I have to play to master this thing?"

Instead of just playing the game normally and before they realize it, they have enough points to master it.

It gonna seem longer than normal the more you think about it.

I got plenty of mechs I never owned after the skill tree and already mastered using only mech XP in a short time because I just played the game and didn't think about it.

[Jay Leon Hart]

As an aside, I tried leveling a few new 'mechs without using my GSP pool and there results were... not good. I *was* equipping two comsumables per match and using at least one of the each time, and by the time I unlocked 91 points I had, overall, *lost* C-Bills

[Humpday]

Asym, on 08 July 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

90 to 140 is not the norm?

Really?

I'm not a bad player and seriously took the time to master that Stormcrow.....

So far, the Hellbringer is worse than the Stormcrow. I play everyday.

Geeze, if you're a NOOB and mastering in 40 matches, something is a miss me thinks. I have, in the 5 months now, post skill tree change, not run into one person less than 75 games..........

Thats a lot of matches to master 1 mech. 40 is right about what it takes for me personally unless the mech is just utter garbage.
The thing is, both mechs you're driving are premier mechs or were at one point(stormcrow).

What you're running into is you've simply not yet learned how to play(stay alive) in the game. The barrier to entry is not so much the mech itself or leveling it, as it is learning how to properly position(be able to constantly keep an eye on minimap), fire and get back in cover. Or having the instinct to know when to go balls deep in a brawl.

I made it to tier1 in 4 months, and it took 2 full seasons of heavy play to get decently good, though since then i've not cared and my stats have tanked. When the new tech drops and I get new mechs i'll bring it back up...until then Im just tooling around.

Anyway, I know the n00b frustration, it takes a while, i mean longgg while before you start getting good.
If you're to take "how long, in days" I've been playing the same I'm still considered a n00b.
Not if you go by hours logged and games played.

My personal progression, and subsequent, drop off(i'll blame boredom and trying a lot less).

Edited by Humpday, 08 July 2017 - 11:05 AM.

[Dariq Sayid]

I have found that, using a super-stock CN9-A, I have been averaging slightly over 1 SP per game. I'm obviously not a new player, but I'm at best an average pilot, using a sub-optimal chassis, with a sub-optimal build. I've got a KDR of around 0.9, and a similar WLR, over the course of 70 or so matches it has taken me to "master" the skill tree.

I think your experience is actually, sorry to say, below average.

Edited by Dariq Sayid, 08 July 2017 - 10:51 AM.

[Humpday]

Oh you know what, I just realized I have perpetual "Premium time" from mechpacks and buying Premium, thats probably why I'm able to master mechs and a decent click.

[vettie]

Asym - I too m retired. A big fan of Six Sigma. learned it from classes at my employer then went on to be the instructor for our facility and traveled to many locations setting them up with an instruction and classes of their own.

So being a six sigma guy yourself, look at the issue, sort of a lessons learned from each of your matches. The skill tree is not (most likely) the root problem you are seeing.

Everyone has a bad game. scoring little and dying quickly.

you need to evaluate your performance. were you alone? were you with the "mob" if it started moving. look at your positioning, were you in cover or over exposed (a lot). Look at your armour load, front loaded, spread evenly? are you twisting? do you know when to back away, when to charge, when to backstab? Check your loadouts, are you using what you are 'good' with? realizing that some thing kill quicker than others. watch you mini map closely, not only for enemies, but for where the main group of friendlies are.

MWO is a complex game. It is fun, even losing if you play well. Dont worry so much about mastering and take 1 match at a time. try to improve a little each match and the rewards will come to 'master that mech.

If you are NA based pm me (if you want) and you can join my teams comms. many there will help you. well have all levels fro T1 down to T5s. Most all willing to help. Most are older and are comms are NOT G rated. But we have fun.

[Cy Mitchell]

Asym, on 08 July 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

Perception?

Seriously? 143 games in a Stormcrow and actually playing the "mastering the mech challenge" with a Hellbringer, real-time with perspective players.... A bad salesman? I want my friends to play so I CAN STAY IN THIS GAME !

I will not lie, cheat or steal and they asked because they value what I "perceive." I love this game and they know that.

If the game play itself can't sell the game; or, the rude language we experienced; or, the "get off the map" and "stop whining" comments; or, the "share armor" that always equates to "let the NOOB die first" so it's easier for the T1/2's to clean house; or, "push now!" and you find you and the other NOOBS are the only mechs getting slaughtered (and, you hear the more expereinced players laughing); and, the list goes on......

Perception IS REALITY in the gaming environment......

All true. You and your friends perception of the game is all that matters. It is tough starting this game. It gets tougher when you have a matchmaker that may throw you, as a brand new player, into a quick play match with other players two to three levels higher than you. Having a Mech with none of the skills completed on it DOES, in fact, put you at a an additional disadvantage.

When you and your friends were starting out that fresh Hellbringer, did you take advantage of doing the Tutorial in the Academy and getting the Cadet bonuses? By doing so, you can earn 18-20 Million C-Bills and 48,000 bonus GXP. This, along with the normal XP and GXP that you earn from your first 25 games, will allow you to build and fully skill up a top tier Mech build that will put you on even footing with the best players in the game from an equipment standpoint. From that point on, it is just a matter of raising your own personal skill level to the point that you can compete.

Some research on this forum and at resources like MetaMechs can help you avoid making mistakes while selecting a Mech and leveling it up. There is a path for you and your friends to get into the game and to start winning if you can convince them to follow it. It will not be easy but it is there.

As far as dealing with the clowns on VOIP and in game chat that think they have godly skills and that you are the reason they lost, all I can say is, ignore them. There are gamers like that in every co-op or PvP online game in existence. Hopefully, when you "git gud", you will not turn into one of them too. It seems to be a disease that many gamers are infected with. Those with low self-esteem and pathetic real lives seem to be especially susceptible. Have pity on them. Just play the game and have fun.

[El Bandito]

Jay Leon Hart, on 08 July 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

Looking over my stats, when I was new it took me 30-40 matches to Master a 'mech. Under the new system, it would have taken 20-30% longer to unlock 91 SP.

Old Mastery = 57,250 XP
91 SP = 72,800 XP

So newbie me would have taken 36-52 matches to unlock 91 SP, with (IIRC) a K/D and W/L of ~0.7-0.8

But you needed to buy three mechs first AND at least basic two of them, in order to master the one variant you like, in the old skill three. That's over 85K XP, and millions of C-Bills wasted on mechs you didn't need.

Current ST is way better, since I can grind it out on the mech I chose to main. Not forced to play variants I do not like is a great plus for me.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 July 2017 - 11:40 AM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

But you need to buy three mechs first AND at least basic two of them, in order to master the one variant you like, in the old skill three. That's over 80K XP.

Current ST is way better, since I can grind it out on the mech I chose to main. Nothing forced.

People seem to have already forgotten how hard the old system was on new players.

You had to:

1. Buy the mech you wanted.
2. Spend millions on Endo, DHS, maybe an engine on top
3. Buy two other variants you didn't want.
4. Do step #2 for each = $$$$$ spent
5. Grind out Basics on all 3. That's 14,250 x 3 = 42,750
6. First time in this weight class? Yep, gotta Elite all 3. That's 21500 x 3= 64,500
7. Okay, now Master the one you want. That's another 21,500

Total = 128,750 XP + the untold millions you spent getting the mechs ready. Or 85,750 XP + untold millions if you didn't have to Elite the throwaways.

The new system is objectively better, and far less of a grind. The realization of how long it'd take to buy something like 3 Timber Wolves, put far more people off the game than the skill tree.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 08 July 2017 - 11:50 AM.

[GrimRiver]

LT. HARDCASE, on 08 July 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

People seem to have already forgotten how hard the old system was on new players.

You had to:

1. Buy the mech you wanted.
2. Spend millions on Endo, DHS, maybe an engine on top
3. Buy two other variants you didn't want.
4. Do step #2 for each = $$$$$ spent
5. Grind out Basics on all 3. That's 14,250 x 3 = 42,750
6. First time in this weight class? Yep, gotta Elite all 3. That's 21500 x 3= 64,500
7. Okay, now Master the one you want. That's another 21,500

Total = 128,750 XP + the untold millions you spent getting the mechs ready. Or 85,750 XP + untold millions if you didn't have to Elite the throwaways.

The new system is objectively better, and far less of a grind. The realization of how long it'd take to buy something like 3 Timber Wolves, put far more people off the game than the skill tree.

Yup.

Though grinding per mech has increased, it however is less grinding to master than the OG system.

Not to mention the pure annoyance of running 2 variants of a chassis that you don't like just to get to the one you do like, skill tree cuts out the middle man really.

[Kalleballe]

If his W/L ratio is that low he is not matched with players of his own skill level. Low population hurts T5 equally as T1 it seems.

Edit: read post 1 again. If you use VOIP then I guess you play group queue with your friends. Sorry, GQ is full of highly skilled players, you will have a bad experience.

Edited by Kalleballe, 08 July 2017 - 12:11 PM.

[vandalhooch]

OP made no mention of the free GXP given to new pilots upon completion of the Cadet Bonus matches?

[Cy Mitchell]

LT. HARDCASE, on 08 July 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

People seem to have already forgotten how hard the old system was on new players.

You had to:

1. Buy the mech you wanted.
2. Spend millions on Endo, DHS, maybe an engine on top
3. Buy two other variants you didn't want.
4. Do step #2 for each = $$$$$ spent
5. Grind out Basics on all 3. That's 14,250 x 3 = 42,750
6. First time in this weight class? Yep, gotta Elite all 3. That's 21500 x 3= 64,500
7. Okay, now Master the one you want. That's another 21,500

Total = 128,750 XP + the untold millions you spent getting the mechs ready. Or 85,750 XP + untold millions if you didn't have to Elite the throwaways.

The new system is objectively better, and far less of a grind. The realization of how long it'd take to buy something like 3 Timber Wolves, put far more people off the game than the skill tree.

This is true but a brand new player who is just coming to the game now has no idea what the old system was like. He/She just finds that getting into the game is a daunting task and many cannot see the way and will not make the effort.

New players like the OP and his friends are the some of the type of people this game needs to attract. They are retired, have time on their hands and presumably would throw money at the game if they enjoyed it. Turning people like that off and having them walk away might be the biggest failure of MWO.

I do not blame the Skill Tree. I blame the indoctrination process. I blame the processes that allow brand new players to be matched with players with years of experience playing the game. This could all be easily rectified with just a little bit of effort and then maybe we could retain some of the new players who have tried the game but left in frustration after just a few games.

vandalhooch, on 08 July 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

OP made no mention of the free GXP given to new pilots upon completion of the Cadet Bonus matches?

He may have gotten it and used it on his Stormcrow. The ideal way to show the game to his friends would have been to start a new account, do the Academy Tutorial and then the 25 Cadet bonus games while leveling up that Hellbringer. That would have at least given the new players a fighting chance.

Edited by Rampage, 08 July 2017 - 12:19 PM.

[Mechteric]

It's still not nearly a bad a grind as pretty much all Free 2 Play games out there.

[MadRover]

MischiefSC, on 08 July 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

They need to drop with someone well over 1.0 w/L to teach/carry them. That would help a lot.

no they need someone who can be effective and efficient to teach them how to get that 1.0 w/L ratio while also being a team player.