124 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Asym, on 08 July 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

Perception?

Seriously? 143 games in a Stormcrow and actually playing the "mastering the mech challenge" with a Hellbringer, real-time with perspective players.... A bad salesman? I want my friends to play so I CAN STAY IN THIS GAME !

I will not lie, cheat or steal and they asked because they value what I "perceive." I love this game and they know that.

If the game play itself can't sell the game; or, the rude language we experienced; or, the "get off the map" and "stop whining" comments; or, the "share armor" that always equates to "let the NOOB die first" so it's easier for the T1/2's to clean house; or, "push now!" and you find you and the other NOOBS are the only mechs getting slaughtered (and, you hear the more expereinced players laughing); and, the list goes on......

Perception IS REALITY in the gaming environment......

What your failing to realize it it is your attitude that is effecting your friends perception of the game. All I am getting from you is how bad or negative the gaming experience is yet you are expecting your friends to jump in and join you playing this game?

I mean if I really want my friends to join a game I play, I am not going to go moaning and griping how bad it is because you know what? They aren't going to play or if they do try it out they aren't going to stick with it. I am not saying you should lie about the game but what the hell are you playing it for if your having such a bad time with it??? No your playing because there is something you find enjoyable about it so why aren't you talking to your friends about what makes you stick with it. What makes you continue to grind even if you don't like the grind. Things like that.

I mean seriously, if I go to one of my friend and say, "Hey join me playing MWO" and they ask, "Tell me about it", the second I start saying, "Well the developer sucks, the grind sucks, the game modes suck, the community sucks, everything sucks", they are going to say, "Nah I think I will pass". At that point I can't go blaming the game or the developer, I have to look at myself and say, "Why didn't I hype up what I enjoy about the game?"

Edited by Viktor Drake, 08 July 2017 - 03:13 PM.

[LORD ORION]

Asym, on 08 July 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

I invited a few of my friends over to watch MWO in action....

We are all retired Six Sigma, Lean and TQM efficiency types that want to do something together after sun sets. So far, so good. And, a majority of us have been playing video games since computers could run them (and, a few before.....)

So, after an evening of watching my matches on the big screen HD, the operative question came up: "OK, how long does it take to "master" a new mech if we jump in?"

Well, the stock answer was between 90 and 140 games.... In a stormcrow I mastered with experience points only, 143 games at a .42 win-loss average.... "did you like that?" was the question...... "no.......it wasn't any fun at all..." was the answer in all honesty.

The response was "OK, let's see how this works then..."

I purchased a Hellbringer and off we went: it costs 800 exp points per skill tree node. That's 72,800 for the mech..... A two day average playing is 100 skill points per match with a .35 W/L ratio.....................

How many of my friends are signing up for MWO? Zip, Zero, Zilch.

So, for us retired guys, "Critical to Quality" is having an enjoyable experience, having some fun and chiding each other on VOIP/Teamspeak.... It's not hours of people screaming at you, endless losses that you can do nothing about and a "grind" that is counter-intuitive: buy a degraded mech and suffer returning that mech to how is was manufactured in the first place???

Do you think a space capable universe would issue degraded equipment to front line forces?

What are your thoughts on this.....

Grind on skill tree is 100x worse, since you must master each mech individually.

Previously I'd just run multiple mechs of the same type, either exiting game and starting a new one immediately, or running the same mech in FP.

Was still tedious, but nowhere near the eye gouging grind we have updated to.

[vandalhooch]

LORD ORION, on 08 July 2017 - 03:22 PM, said:

Grind on skill tree is 100x worse, since you must master each mech individually.

Previously I'd just run multiple mechs of the same type, either exiting game and starting a new one immediately, or running the same mech in FP.

Was still tedious, but nowhere near the eye gouging grind we have updated to.

No one's stopping you from still doing that. Unless you are one of those players who can't control their spending and buy a new mech the instant they have the minimum C-bills necessary.

[LORD ORION]

vandalhooch, on 08 July 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

No one's stopping you from still doing that. Unless you are one of those players who can't control their spending and buy a new mech the instant they have the minimum C-bills necessary.

Are you ********, is that the problem?

Where you dont understand that mastering a mech previously means you can buy 100 of them and they'd all be mastered. Where as now each one needs to be mastered individually?

Thumps up for being a STUPID fan boy saying STUPID things.... stop replying to comments, and make your own about how you think everything is fine and great, so everyone can ignore your moronic stupidity and not comment on it.

Edited by LORD ORION, 08 July 2017 - 03:39 PM.

[Snowbluff]

Running group queue against veteran players is going to hurt your WLR way more than not mastering mechs.

[JC Daxion]

Well first off you get over 20m bonus for a new account, and then you get roughly 60k GXP to use on any mech. So basically after 25 matches you should have something bought, set up and almost mastered. The key is to pick something worth using for a bit while you learn the game and what you like. I used to suggest IS mechs because of rule of three, But now, Stormcrow, hellbringer, or Timber wolf would be my goto suggestion for a good starter mech. They are all flexible and can use any weapon system.


Tell them to take more generic still tree skills while they are learning, get the kinetic mobility, some sensors in the way of left side of the tree with 60% radar dep, and one seismic. Then take full armor. The rest of the points can be generic weapon skill tree while they learn.


Then you earn money to buy your next mech, while playing your fully mastered one. Maybe new players are having a harder time earning XP, but if you have a little experience it shouldn't be taking you more than 40 or so matches to master up a new mech. But play one of those mechs you bought for 300+ matches and really learn the game. You will have gobs of XP that you could covert to GXP if you want, and you should have millions of C-bills to buy anything you want at this point.


Buying a little premium time on sale in larger amounts, or picking up a day pass is an easy way to grind out a new mech. For instance i leveled my Hellbringer the other day. I opened up a Premium time day pass from a event loot drop, and basically played my 30 missions and finished off the one i was working on and got a good jump on the next.

250 MC is like a dollar. Use the day passes when you have the time to grind out 30-40 matches.. which is basically an evening and you should be close to mastered in a single evening.


While the new player experience might be daunting if you want 100 mechs, to get one set up and ready to go fully kitted out has never been easier/faster

[Gwahlur]

Snowbluff, on 08 July 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

Running group queue against veteran players is going to hurt your WLR way more than not mastering mechs.

Yeah, this is an unfortunate problem this game has. You would think the best way to show your friends the game and get them interested in playing would be to group up with them and have some fun, but getting decimated over and over isn't really very fun.
So you end up trying to synchdrop. Sometimes it works and you end up on the same team, sometimes on opposite teams, and sometimes in different matches alltogether.
Pretty soon, your friends have lost interest.
True story, I was trying to show some friends the game, this was the exact result. The small annoyances like that put them off, and now they have no interest in ever trying it again.

[Johnny Z]

Never done it on the new system so cannot comment but I wonder how it compares to World of Warships for getting a top pvp ready mech. Not mid or lower tier WOW ships but top tier fully ready.

As far as I know Mechwarrior Online has the least grind to get a player into top lvl pvp readiness. Has this changed since the skill tree and World of Warships and the rest have less grind than MechWarrior Online?

In short how many hours does it take to have a mastered mech fully outfitted?

Edited by Johnny Z, 08 July 2017 - 03:48 PM.

[vandalhooch]

LORD ORION, on 08 July 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

Are you ********, is that the problem?

Where you dont understand that mastering a mech previously means you can buy 100 of them and they'd all be mastered. Where as now each one needs to be mastered individually?

Thumps up for being a STUPID fan boy saying STUPID things.... stop replying to comments, and make your own about how you think everything is fine and great, so everyone can ignore your moronic stupidity and not comment on it.

1 - Nice rage.

2 - Are you telling me that you purchased multiple copies of the same variant in order to speed up the mastering process? And you want to complain about the current grind?

3 - How did that work with the rule of three?

4 - "Type" isn't a useful term. There are chassis and variants.

[Koniving]

Asym, on 08 July 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

Do you think a space capable universe would issue degraded equipment to front line forces?

What are your thoughts on this.....

I agree whole heartedly on the grind for the skill tree per mech being astronomical and unreasonable.

But as to this question... Yes, actually. While the Battlemechs of Battletech are quite a bit superior to what we see in MWO ('Mechs automatically try to avoid getting damaged, colliding with things, tend to smash or blow out buildings with their attacks, etc... despite being '12 to 14' meters according to CityTech, with sizes since then getting smaller, not bigger, and certainly not MWO giants)...they are also significantly inferior. Many of them are not housing most of the fancy stuff we shove into our mechs due mainly to strenuous supply and demand, a scavenger economy, lost knowledge, etc.

Then you have the issue that the average Battlemech is between 75 to 300 years old, with new ones being produced in the tens to hundreds versus the hundreds that wind up permanently becoming scrap with each passing year. Then the time it takes to go from one system to another might not be much, but from many of these factories to the front lines is well over several months on a straight trip. Add to this that most front line mechs tend to simply wind up captured or 'salvaged', and in the end you wind up with only the most entitled getting their hands on new mechs. Especially since a Mechwarrior's average salary is about 1,500 cbills or 10,800 USD per month for a merc that has to pay his own repairs, his own expenses, etc. (3062 economy, mind you, compared to the value of the USD in 2016). (Unless you're Lyran [Steiner] in which case you could probably buy Las Vegas once every three months).

Even in real life wars, such as World War II, Germany's forces were sent into Russia far ahead of proper supplies, meaning many of their troops lacked proper clothing. Many of the US soldiers that were sent over also lacked a lot of proper attire, due in part that huge shipments were never sent and so even basics such as weapon cleaning kits or even replacement boots simply weren't there to be had, leaving some to salvage weapons, equipment and even footwear from the dead on both sides.

Degraded equipment is unfortunately a fact of life.

MWO treats its skill tree as bonuses, however, rather than 'maintenance'. This doesn't make it any better because the system is far too time consuming and expensive for a "buy some mechpacks" economy.

[PurplePuke]

If you don't like the game before your mech is 91 mastered, you won't like it after it's 91 mastered.

You don't need mastered mechs to have fun and be effective.

I had a nice game in a trial HBK IIC last night and got 4 kills and did several hundred damage.

You still have weapons, armor, mobility and everything before skill points.

[KekistanWillRiseAgain]

Humpday, on 08 July 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

Oh you know what, I just realized I have perpetual "Premium time" from mechpacks and buying Premium, thats probably why I'm able to master mechs and a decent click.

The difference is startling... between my Main which has some much PT & my Alt which does not, you can really tell especially on those big x2 XP matches. 3-4 Node difference on that game alone, then the grindy feeling of getting 1 or 2 Nodes without PT to the common 2-3 nodes with it. It really stacks up after a while in a measurable difference.

[sycocys]

El Bandito, on 08 July 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

I had 0.25 WLR for the first 6 months of playing MWO, starting way back in 2012. I persevered despite that cause I love the BT franchise and the feel of piloting a mech. I don't remember blaming my low performance on unskilled mechs.

I didn't even know there was a skill tree until the game got well into open beta!
---

For current game though, I think I put skill points on my 4 HBK-4SP's and maybe 4 other mechs. Does it make some difference? Sure, but since the game drops you with pretty much anyone else skill-wise it really doesn't make that much difference outside of maybe range buffs being a nice bonus to have.

I'd honestly not even tell a new player to worry about the skill tree at all, its not going to be a magical improvement to their game experience. The only real reason to even log on to this game at this point is to hang out on comms with your friends, so that's what you should be doing.

[InvictusLee]

The game does get old quick because no matter what you do or what mech you drop in or whether or not your into role playing; your doing one thing: Playing a 12v12 skirmish.


It gets old fast.
The only reason I've really stuck around is 1. shooting things in a battlemech I've been a huge fan of since I discovered battle tech is quite satisfying, and 2. I've already invested way too much money.

This game in my experience is nothing but irritating and frustrating as a new player and those trial mechs are 1. usually a horrible build, and 2. often not noob friendly. When you join MWO you skip the frying pan and jump directly into the fire.
The introduction of the academy has helped, but theres still so much about the game that the academy just cant teach a noob.

It wasnt until I started sinking real money into this so called free to play game that I started enjoying the game, and dying alot less often. There in-lies the problem: I think its purposely set up to make you pay to get good or have fun.

Still, I'm happy to throw money at MWO because I know somewhere in a dark cubicle, there's one dev back there, by themselves, working on Battletech 5. And it is for that guy, and that guy only that I wish to stick around and keep throwing money at this game. xD.

[UnofficialOperator]

Asym, on 08 July 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

So, for us retired guys, "Critical to Quality" is having an enjoyable experience, having some fun and chiding each other on VOIP/Teamspeak.... It's not hours of people screaming at you, endless losses that you can do nothing about and a "grind" that is counter-intuitive: buy a degraded mech and suffer returning that mech to how is was manufactured in the first place???

1. If your primary or only goal is to have fun with friends then play private matches only vs each other. Because the only other way to play with your friends would be to group drop. And mastered mechs or not, there is no way you and your friends are going to win at all vs the organized group play scene. It's a familiarity/skill thing, not a mastered mech thing.

2. Mastering a mech is not necessary to be good at the game. Look at King Harkinian working his way up with new mechs. The only crutches you'd need from the skill tree are probably coolshot . Good positioning takes care of everything else. Radar derp helps but not necessary as long as you position well. Seismic is useful again but not necessary. Survival is good but again good positioning will help a lot.

3. Not sure from your post whether you are at all concerned about WLR. But WLR is certainly something you can do a lot about (i.e. carrying a team and not endless losses). Look at players with high WLR. There is definitely something they are doing right/performing consistently as a solo queuer.

[Asym]

Again, great posts and I apprecaite the time each of you has taken. thank you !

Competition, working towards goals as a team is what most people want. They want to belong (Maslow's needs theory) and feel a part of something outside of the routine of normal life.

When we were younger, we all played golf in a league.... None of us were Palmer or Woods; but, we played together once a week in a league.... We're older now and at the point of not physically enduring the 100 degree "weeks" of a summer league.

MWO. WoW. WoT. EliteDangerous. Star Citizem. Eve. And, a whole host of FPS multiplayers are where the babyboomers are finding themselves having a blast, having fun....... You see the sames name all day long on the MWO roster; dropping into matches......across the world. Cool stuff man, very cool stuff.

I am passionate about MWO because it aligns to what I and many of my friends grew up with: mechwarrior itself. We now have the time and the money to "play this game".

Attitude? We aren't the X, Y or the "like" generations; we love competition and are willing to "fight the good fight"... But, we are very, very educated people, have retired from no less than two careers and know "when to cut bait or fish".......

I am the last. MWO itself, in real time, by observation of matches, at the lowest level of play, couldn't "sell" itself to a group of people; who have the time; have the money; have the interest; and, most of all, have a need to compete, together as a team, to have fun.....

It's that simple.......

[MischiefSC]

Asym, on 09 July 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

Again, great posts and I apprecaite the time each of you has taken. thank you !

Competition, working towards goals as a team is what most people want. They want to belong (Maslow's needs theory) and feel a part of something outside of the routine of normal life.

When we were younger, we all played golf in a league.... None of us were Palmer or Woods; but, we played together once a week in a league.... We're older now and at the point of not physically enduring the 100 degree "weeks" of a summer league.

MWO. WoW. WoT. EliteDangerous. Star Citizem. Eve. And, a whole host of FPS multiplayers are where the babyboomers are finding themselves having a blast, having fun....... You see the sames name all day long on the MWO roster; dropping into matches......across the world. Cool stuff man, very cool stuff.

I am passionate about MWO because it aligns to what I and many of my friends grew up with: mechwarrior itself. We now have the time and the money to "play this game".

Attitude? We aren't the X, Y or the "like" generations; we love competition and are willing to "fight the good fight"... But, we are very, very educated people, have retired from no less than two careers and know "when to cut bait or fish".......

I am the last. MWO itself, in real time, by observation of matches, at the lowest level of play, couldn't "sell" itself to a group of people; who have the time; have the money; have the interest; and, most of all, have a need to compete, together as a team, to have fun.....

It's that simple.......

Almost every other game you mentioned has a "starter area" and is more than just a moba.

MWO is pure MOBA. It's an arena shooter, PvP only. PGI has designed it to be very niche. There is no environment or tool set to help new people get into the game. They have the training area that's SP. That's it.

However!

Private matches no longer require premium time so you have a way to pull them in to private matches to help them adjust.

For group queue, put them in LRMs and spot for them. Not going to help w/L but it will help damage/score and that helps pay/xp. Get a few of the good players in this thread to drop with you guys (not even on TS, just grouped up) to help carry you. Group queue has no shallow end and as such is a harsh way to skill up.

Private matches. No more PT requirement.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Asym, on 09 July 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

I am the last. MWO itself, in real time, by observation of matches, at the lowest level of play, couldn't "sell" itself to a group of people; who have the time; have the money; have the interest; and, most of all, have a need to compete, together as a team, to have fun.....

It's that simple.......

The part I underlined is what I think either you are glossing over from other posts, or we are misunderstanding from your own.

If you are playing in the Group Queue, you are actually subject to a higher level of play than a new player should have to endure.

It is unfortunate that Group Queue (has no match maker / lacks population for the match maker to work) [delete as applicable], but as-is playing in a group ramps the difficulty curve up a lot, with the exception of when there's an event on that requires play there for a reward.

As to the rest, I can't say I disagree.

[UnofficialOperator]

What OP wants is just not in MWO's design unfortunately.

1. He feels mechs come in a "degraded" status. Others view it as the advancement part of an MMO, like an MMORPG. If he wants everything to be equal, perhaps CSGO would be more his thing.

2. Group play has no Matchmaker or ELO so unfortunately he and his friends would probably be roflstomped. I mean with a negative WLR (I assume in T3-T5 solo queue), nothing would help much, even mastered mechs. If MWO had a big enough population to support Group Matchmaker/ELO, then OP and friends could probably stand a fighting chance.

Some of OP's views are odd though. I mean the last time I touched EVE, it took years to just max learning/training skills. Why not view that as "degraded" pilots then? If OP wants a totally "fair" game, then CSGO/Overwatch or any decent FPS would be good enough.

PS: since you are ex military, maybe you should check out Project Reality and its ilk if army life still interests you. When it first came out, the armor engine sounds were spot on. There is also Arma 3/Squad etc.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 09 July 2017 - 06:59 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Snowbluff, on 08 July 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

Running group queue against veteran players is going to hurt your WLR way more than not mastering mechs.

This. My WLR tanks hard whenever I run as a duo or trio with friends who are newer to the game.